German Base Packages - Resource Suggestions

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Posts 570
HansK | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 30 2013 12:58 PM

Works by Klaus Berger:

Kommentar zum NT

Theologiegeschichte des Urchristentums

Bibelkunde 2

etc etc

MacOS Sierra / Logos 7 Collector's Edition & All Base Packages / Logos Now

Posts 1685
LogosEmployee
Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 30 2013 2:55 PM

Rosie, I think we're interested in talking to anyone who would be good for the position. It's easier for us to train and coordinate with people on site, but we're willing to discuss hiring / contracting-with someone remote.

Posts 1281
toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 31 2013 2:42 AM

Bob Pritchett:

Rosie, I think we're interested in talking to anyone who would be good for the position. It's easier for us to train and coordinate with people on site, but we're willing to discuss hiring / contracting-with someone remote.

is this a reply to a different post?

Posts 18597
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 31 2013 2:54 AM

toughski:

Bob Pritchett:

Rosie, I think we're interested in talking to anyone who would be good for the position. It's easier for us to train and coordinate with people on site, but we're willing to discuss hiring / contracting-with someone remote.

is this a reply to a different post?

You can see which post of mine he is replying to by clicking the "Replied" link beside his name before the timestamp. It is a very relevant response

Bob, I've let my friend know you said that. I still haven't heard back from him on my initial email anyway. Will let you know if he perks up his ears at the idea.

Posts 576
LogosEmployee
Alan Palmer (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 31 2013 1:04 PM

L.A.:

Alan Palmer (Logos):
Maybe you guys know someone suitable for this position? https://www.logos.com/jobs/German-Marketing-Specialist
 

Thanks, Alan! Blessed year 2014!

I posted it on facebook and got an answer. But... he don't want to do the job from the US... However, I encouraged him to get in contact with jobs@logos.com

While I am not directly involved in the hiring process for this position, I would encourage people interested to contact Logos and get in touch with the people who are (just like you told your friend). In the real world, there are very few non-negotiable requirements when it comes to filling positions at any private company I've ever worked for (besides obvious legal ones). Government jobs? Well that's another story. Wink

Posts 3
Moritz Brockhaus | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 2 2014 12:06 PM

Bibles: Interlinear German Bibles (Luther 1984 and Elberfelder, maybe). Additionally: BasisBibel, Neue Genfer Übersetzung, Menge Bibel

Dictionaries: Bauer-Aland, Wörterbuch zum NT (the German BDAG); KAHAL (the new German HALOT). Theological Dictionaries as well (e.g. Jenni/Westermann)

Commentaries: Herders Theologischer Kommentar zum AT (HThK.AT); Herders Theologischer Kommentar zum NT (HThK.NT); Historisch-Theologische Auslegung (HTA)

Posts 536
L.A. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 4 2014 1:39 PM

L.A.:
(1) What resources would you suggest for possible German Base Packages?   

Thanks to all for your contribution!!! I'm preparing an Excel doc with all suggestions. It'll be online in the next days. But please continue to contribute suggestions for more resources or put an * to the resources you most like... ...the more *** the higher the priority.

Nobody left her/his opinion about the second - quite considerable - question - I think: 

L.A.:
2) Which type of Base Packages would you prefer? ... thematic Base Packages (Theology, Biblical Languages, Counselling, etc.) or incremental Base Packages (as the english ones <-- the bigger and more expensive packages contain the resources of the smaller packages).

Thanks again! Have a blessed year 2014!

Thanks again also to Bob Pritchet!! ...and Alan!  

Posts 1
Denis Grams | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 6 2014 4:23 PM

Dictionaries:

Bauer-Aland ***

Gesenius ***

they are so important....

and some german translations, like  the Elberfelder *** or Neü **

thanks a lot ;-)

Posts 3
Moritz Brockhaus | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 9 2014 12:21 PM

Resp. 2nd question:

Thematic Base Packages would be more convenient for me, I think. I mostly use original language tools and Commentaries.

Posts 22
Andreas Münch | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 18 2014 7:50 AM

Bibles: Elberfelder 2006, Schlachter 2000, Neue Genfer Übersetzung, Neue Luther Bibel

Dictionaries: Theologisches Begriffslexikon zum Neuen Testament (Author: Lothar Coenen), Wörterbuch zum Neuen Testament (Walter Bauer)

Commentaries: Keil und Delitzsch Kommentar zum Alten Testament, Wuppertaler Studienbibel AT - NT, Historisch Theologische Auslegung NT

Church History: 2000 Jahre Kirchengeschichte (Armin Sierszyn)

Posts 22
Andreas Münch | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 20 2014 3:10 AM

Another great Tool for German Logos User would be "Neuer sprachlicher Schlüssel zum griechischen Neuen Testament: Mattäus - Offenbarung" from Wilfried Haubeck and Heinrich von Siebenthal

Posts 569
Schumitinu | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 24 2014 4:07 AM

Even though we have made some good suggestions, it looks to me like we haven’t done the best answering the questions Logos brought to us. Maybe we should answer the second question first and then be able to make more educated suggestions as to what recourses to be included. I’d like to propose the following:

I feel like incremental base packages better meet the need of our German speaking community. For example if I look for a Bible program I look for a mixture of Bible versions, commentaries, lexicons and a few other helpful resources. And I think this is what the English base packages offer. I’d propose three levels: a basic version (Grundversion), a study version (Studienversion), and a scholar version (Akademische Version). This should cover a wide range of interests. I therefore make my suggestions of recourses for all three levels. But I do so in another entry. Otherwise this one gets too big. So this gives you the option to further discuss my proposal by replying to this entry. Or if you like the way I’ve divided it up you can comment, modify or add to the list of resources I suggest below. Hopefully this brings us a step further in helping Logos putting together a great Bible study tool for our German speaking community.

I have one more suggestion to make before I post my list of resources. What I called a few other helpful resources above would fit under what we in German categorize as Theology (Theologie). This would include different disciplines like doctrine, hermeneutics, OT and NT introductions, church history, textual critics, extra biblical literature, and the list could go on. Again I feel that this would meet a felt need of the German speaking world, like myself.

Posts 569
Schumitinu | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 24 2014 4:09 AM

So here are my lists of resources divided up into three incremental versions. That means the upper versions include the resources of the lower versions. Instead of just looking at what resources we personally would like to have included, look at the whole package and determine whether or not you would purchase it. Because that is what it is all about, we eventually have to buy the whole package.

Grundversion

Bibel (Bible):     

  • Luther 84
  • Elberfelder 2006
  • Schlachter 2000
  • Gute Nachricht
  • Neues Leben
  • Neue evangelistische Übertragung

 

Kommentare (Commentary):

  • William MacDonald AT und NT
  • Langes Bibelwerk
  • Warren Wiersbe, Sei-Reihe AT und NT
  • Kommentar zur Bibel, R. Brockhaus Verlag
  • Edition C Bibelkommentar AT und NT

 

Nachschlagwerke (Lexicon):

  • Lexikon zur Bibel, Fritz Rienecken
  • Ungers großes Bibel Handbuch
  • Elberfelder Themenkonkordanz
  • Der große Atlas zur Welt der Bibel, Brunnen Verlag
  • Namen und Orte der Bibel, Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft

 

Theologie (Theology):

  • Was die Bibel lehrt, Charles Ryrie
  • Schritte durch die Bibel, Gibbs

 

Gottesdienst (Lectionaries):

  • Herrnhuter Losungen
  • ???

 

 

Studienversion

Bibel:

  • Menge
  • Elberfelder 2003 (CSV Edition)
  • Einheitsübersetzung
  • Zürcher Bibel
  • Neue Genfer Übersetzung
  • NA 27 (text with morph tagging)
  • BHS (text with morph tagging)
  • Septuaginta Deutsch

 

Kommentare:

  • Keil & Delizsch AT und NT Kommentare
  • Theodor Zahn Kommentarreihe NT
  • Wuppertaler Studienbibel
  • Kommentar zum Umfeld des neuen Testamentes, Craig S. Keener

 

Nachschlagwerke:

  • Biblisches Wörterbuch, R. Brockhaus
  • Kleines Wörterbuch zum Neuen Testament: Griechisch-Deutsch, Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft
  • Wörterbuch zum Alten Testament: Hebräisch/Aramäisch-Deutsch und Hebräisch/Aramäisch-Englisch, Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft
  • Biblische Bilder und Symbole, Arend Remmers
  • Die Vielfalt biblischer Sprache, Schirrmacher

 

Theologie:

  • Bibel Chronik, 5 Bände, Vanheiden
  • Ethik, 3 Bände, Burkhardt
  • 2000 Jahre Kirchengeschichte, Sierszyn

 

Gottesdienst:

  • Evangelisches Kirchengesangbuch
  • Gotteslob
  • ???

 

 

Akademische Version

Bibel:

  • Janzen NT
  • Zunz AT
  • Septuaginta (SESB) mit textkritischem Apparat
  • Biblia Sacra Vulgata (SESB) mit textkritischem Apparat
  • BHQ

 

Kommentare:

  • Historisch-Theologische Auslegungsreihe des Neuen Testaments
  • Meyers Kritisch-exegetischer Kommentar über das Neue Testament
  • Herders Theologischer Kommentar zum AT und NT
  • Kommentar zum Neuen Testament aus Talmud und Midrasch, Hermann L. Strack / Paul Billerbeck

 

Nachschlagwerke:

  • Wörterbuch zum Neuen Testament, Bauer/Aland
  • Theologisches Wörterbuch zum Neuen Testament, Kittel
  • Hebräisches und Aramäisches Handwörterbuch, Gesenius
  • Hebräischen und Aramäischen Lexikons zum Alten Testament (HALAT), Koehler & Baumgartner          (many commentaries would quote the HALAT and not the newer KAHAL. This might work better for linking the words in the commentary directly to the lexicon)
  • (Konzise und aktualisierte Ausgabe des Hebräischen und Aramäischen Lexikons zum Alten Testament (KAHAL), Dietrich & Arnet)

 

Theologie:

  • BHS Apparatus Criticus
  • NA28 Textkritischer Apparat
  • Neuer Sprachlicher Schlüssel zum NT, Haubeck & von Siebenthal
  • Griechische Grammatik, von Siebenthal
  • Hebräische Grammatik, Gesenius
  • Einleitung in das neue Testament, Carson & Moo
  • Altes Testament, Egelkraut

 

Gottesdienst:

  • ???
Posts 9825
Forum MVP
NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 24 2014 4:51 AM

Schumitinu,

your packages are a nice starting point. I'd probably consider buying, but there's much overlap to SESB (idea: special pricing for SESB-owners!) and a number of the resources you suggested are translations of well-known English language works. The appeal to former non-users of Logos may be larger than for those who own a large library already.

Currently they look very "evangelical" to me, which may be okay but restricts the potential buyer's population and may impact the reputation of Logos on the (massively liberal) university level, since - as far as I have been told and read - evangelical literature is often not considered as citeable. Logos might want to exchange some things to make the packages appealing to more liberal/mainstream people and to the RC community- in this case the Einheitsübersetzung should be in Grundversion.

The German edition of Schnelle's book and other entry-level university textbooks should be put into the study version. And one would need to have some more additional works for students of Greek and Hebrew in the study and academic packages, such as Stoy/Haag/Haubeck "Bibelgriechisch leichtgemacht" (Brunnenverlag) etc. 

I personally would like to see the bibles "Hoffnung für Alle" (Brunnenverlag) and "Basisbibel" (DBG) in the Grundversion, and maybe "Das Buch" (SCM, authored by head of German YMCA and former missionary Roland Werner) as well. Schlachter 2000 is a TR-based, formal-equivalent bible which may be used only in certain smaller groups, I'd propose to move it to the second package level and then have it as the German edition of John MacArthur study bible (sold by fundamentalist publisher CSV as such).

Logos could include the (PD) commentaries by Adolf Schlatter: the ten-volume, lay-accessile ones in the study edition and the academic ones one level above. And probably some of the all-time classics in commentaries for the academic package, like Barth's Romans and Bultmann's John.

So far my ideas,

Mick 

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 569
Schumitinu | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 24 2014 9:03 PM

Hi Mick,

It's good to get this discussion going! That's what I like. It is by combined effort that we can come up with good suggestions for base packages.

You raise two topics we may want to discuss further. First, whether these packages are going to be for new users or for others that already use Logos in English. My opinion is that we should first think about our friends that are not able to use this great tool because they don't know English well enough. To me the bigger thing is to help get Logos into a format that non-English speakers can use. In that sense I first look at the tool that I want to get into the hands of these people and then I consider the recourses. Because I can already use this tool and benefit from it. But others can't. And that obviously means to have German resources in those packages. And some of them might be works that got translated from English. But that is alright, because we again want to give them access to these works. Now as a byproduct I still can purchase whatever resource I still want to get out of the base packages, because it is now available for Logos.

Secondly, what group of people does Logos want to aim at. I obviously chose works from the evangelistic and catholic realm because that's my background. But I also think that this is the group that is interested in Bible study. Now there might very well be a market among liberal/mainstream people. But I would never suggest these recourses. First, because I don't want them, and secondly, because I now that if Logos looks liberal the evangelical people are not going to buy it. But I do have my friends in that section and that is where I try to have my contribution as well. Now I'm not saying we should leave out the liberal section of Christianity. I'm all for bringing the Word of God to all sections of the community. But I am saying that Logos had to consider this and maybe come up with a separate (university level?) version for the more liberal minded people. Because again, just like the liberal are not going to buy Logos if it has a evangelical touch, so the evangelical are not going to buy it if Logos has a liberal touch. I don't think you can combine the two. There has been a division for a reason. Now Logos' purpose and my own purpose for getting Logos into German my differ as well. Logos might want to be able to sell it on a university level, where as my heart is to disciple the common person in the Church. But right now Logos asks us for our opinion.

Let's keep this conversation going. I think this helps Logos to get a better picture of our German speaking context. And if there are people reading this forum who belong to the more liberal section, it would be good to get them involved here as well. Because so far, the works suggested here are all from the evangelical or catholic theological branches. And if we have scholars here that know the German university landscape, it would be good to hear from them as well.

Great discussion!
Martin

 

Posts 9945
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 24 2014 9:37 PM

Schumitinu:
You raise two topics we may want to discuss further. First, whether these packages are going to be for new users or for others that already use Logos in English. My opinion is that we should first think about our friends that are not able to use this great tool because they don't know English well enough. To me the bigger thing is to help get Logos into a format that non-English speakers can use. In that sense I first look at the tool that I want to get into the hands of these people and then I consider the recourses. Because I can already use this tool and benefit from it. But others can't. And that obviously means to have German resources in those packages. And some of them might be works that got translated from English. But that is alright, because we again want to give them access to these works. Now as a byproduct I still can purchase whatever resource I still want to get out of the base packages, because it is now available for Logos.

I would recommend AGAINST resources translated from English.  Many of the resources translated from English (many of them are second-rate) have counterparts originating in German and thus not needing translation.  Furthermore, there are many of us who are primarily Anglophones who would appreciate having some German resources which have not yet been translated into English which would boost the sale of these German resources.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 569
Schumitinu | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 25 2014 12:29 AM

George Somsel:

... there are many of us who are primarily Anglophones who would appreciate having some German resources which have not yet been translated into English which would boost the sale of these German resources.

Good point there!

Posts 632
LogosEmployee
Thomas Reiter (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 26 2014 9:36 AM

Hi All!

I thought I would interject myself in this Discussion to give you guys an idea what is going on behind the scenes at Logos and what you can expect moving forward.

As some of you had noticed Logos had been looking for a German Marketing Specialist, a role which I am now fortunate enough to fill.

I started working for Logos this past Monday and therefore things are all still new and fluid, however we as a company are excited about what we think we can offer the German Market moving forward.

Please give us a little time to figure things out on our end until we can discuss definite plans, however you can all be reassured that a German Language Logos Version and a substantial increase in our German Literature Catalog are all on the horizon.

If you are excited and want to know how you can help us achieve our goals as fast as possible while retaining Logos quality I have a rather simple answer for you. Keep up the good work.

  • Forum topics like this are always valuable resources, and a German specific Forum is definitely in the works(maybe comparable to the Spanish subsection that we already have)
  • Work with CrowdIn - Translating Logos is a lot of work, and while we have made great advances on the Desktop UI, the help files and many other things still need a lot of work.
  • Keep suggesting books like you have above. We ourselves are assembling lists of books that we think are essential to a German Version of Logos. However, we are not infallible and will probably not think of a number of Books that you may value higher than we do. So remind us of those! We obviously can't guarantee that all of them will be included from the get-go, but we will do our best to create the best catalogue that we can offer.
  • Keep up your interest in Logos - The first couple German books are already in the works to be pushed into pre-pub( for example some works of Heinrich Heppe should go up soon), your support for those will show us a lot about the market

Thank you so much for your continued support for Logos and we hope that you are as excited as we are about the new possibilities for a German Logos!

 

Thomas

Edit: It seems as if my Account hasn't been fully linked with the Logos Employee Database just yet, but I hope to have my Logos badge underneath my profile soon! :)

Posts 536
L.A. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 26 2014 11:10 AM

Thomas Reiter:
I started working for Logos this past Monday

Party!!! CONGRATULATIONS!! HERZLICHEN GLÜCKWUNSCH!! Party!!! Success, Erfolg, Blessings etc.

TAKE YOUR TIME... IT'S GREAT NEWS!! 

Thomas Reiter:
The first couple German books are already in the works to be pushed into pre-pub

I discovered that the "Classic Commentaries an Studies on..."-Series (some Pre-Pub) already contain some German works from Zahn, Wellhausen, Weiss, etc. Would be nice having a "pure" German version of this set in the future.

Thomas Reiter:
Work with CrowdIn
YES - you are right - yet there is something to do... anyway, it's a process - and what we already have shows that the things are on the way... 

Posts 536
L.A. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 26 2014 11:47 AM

George Somsel:
I would recommend AGAINST resources translated from English.

George, don't forget that reading in one's native language is a lot easier. Although most of us don't have problems with english literature, translations into German do exist for a reason. ...and if logos want's to reach out for the German market, out there are a lot of people who don't have sufficient english-language skills enjoying these books. 

For example...

  • the updated German version of "The Illustrated Bible Dictionary" (1962/1989 etc.) - Das große Bibelexikon
  • the revised and updated German version of "Old Testament Survey. The Message, Form and Background of the OT" - Das Alte Testament (Egelkraut) - mentioned above

At least these two are not only translations, but have some "only German" sections scattered in the original version. 

Another work would be (personally interested) David Bosch's Transforming Missions (exist for Logos in Spanish [I own the Spanish paper-version], and in Portuguese). It's one of THE Missions-Theologies. David Bosch (and Leslie Newbigin) are one of the theologians between the traditional liberal and traditional evangelicals - criticizing and suffering both Roll Eyes - with success, I think 

So - mercy for (almost-)only-German-speaking people doesn't necessarily mean bad marketing. Wink I could imagine a similar portfolio as the Spanish products. Besides this - there are some only-Spanish products that would be worth having in English or German etc. 

For example...

  • Justo González, História de la Reforma (the reformation from a spanish perspective - Isabel the Catholic etc.)
  • or works from Rene Padilla, Samuel Escobar etc. about integral missions
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