500 Megapack looks like a garage sale you leave early

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JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 26 2013 3:27 PM

Just for the record, I enjoy easily understood clear commentaries from any age or time?  I didnt see a preponderance of them in this (probably) wonderful collection though.

As for cheese, Vermont Sharp Cheddar and NOT that stuff you swirl out from a tube or spray-like bottle either - ewwwww.

Aged cheese can be great too.

Posts 2841
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 26 2013 10:29 PM

There is some good old stuff here that I would like to have - the Whitefield books, for example.  There is some good stuff here that I already have - Arminius and the Cambridge commentaries.

But there is not enough here for me to spend hundreds of dollars.  That is a personal decision, but I would like to have seen some kind of package with some quality resources that are not just public domain material.  A lot of this material would only clutter up my already too cluttered Logos library.  I would never use most of it.  Call me crazy, but this is not my dream package. 

This is not nearly the best package Logos has ever offered in terms of value.

Now you take that first Platinum L5 package (which no longer has some of best commentaries originally included).  That was the best package that Logos ever offered, from my perspective.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 27 2013 3:21 AM

NB.Mick:
For example, I'm no SDA. I personally wouldn't pay to receive the wisdom of a prophetess which apparently birthed something that - for many other christians - looks a denomination ridden with exclusivism, legalism and fake excuses for a return of Chridst which just didn't happen.

Be nice. Wrong information NB. Your history is all wrong. So is the understanding of Adventist theology.

Light bearers to the Remnant is a good academic book http://www.adventistbookcenter.com/light-bearers.html or Knight's book: http://www.adventistbookcenter.com/a-brief-history-of-seventh-day-adventists.html for easy reading.

All Religious Education in Logos Bible Software. Logos Youtube Channel

Posts 2038
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 27 2013 6:20 AM

You mean L4? There is one copy being sold on ebay:

Michael Childs:
Now you take that first Platinum L5 package (which no longer has some of best commentaries originally included).  That was the best package that Logos ever offered, from my perspective.

Aply!
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Mike Pettit | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 27 2013 6:43 AM

I think it is a great package, the only downside is that it does not include the Newton collection, rather strangely it only includes volume 3. This does however reduce the dynamic pricing for the full collection so it is still valuable.

Posts 2038
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 27 2013 3:30 PM

Some good thoughts by Jack Caviness and Disciple of Christ!

I sometimes buy a bit older works, even from the 19th century (I have a quote open right now for a book from the mid-19th century), but I dislike the bundling, this bundle is too big - I wish I could leave something out of it and get it cheaper. Yes I'm a student. I have more than enough money to spend on books but I have been spending money too easily on books in Bible Study Software.

Even though it's a bigger effort I think I'm going to wait for individual titles (or perhaps collections) to go on a sale, or negotiate with Sales about the price. But I will probably not be buying old commentaries - even though it doesn't really matter if a commentary is from 1987 or 1907 (I expect the commentary from 1907 to be better since the costs for producing it in Logos are way much lower than for the 1987 title) - especially if it's on any book from the 39-book Old Testament except Isaiah.

Even so, I'm usually very disappointed with the public domain works offered in low- and mid-level base-packages.

I'm following sales pretty closely. I rather put this extra effort into it, than clutter my library:

Disciple of Christ (doc):
I agree Jack, I cringe a little when people only want today's scholarship. Are we somehow more superior today than we were yesterday? Do we have a special relationship with the Holy Spirit today that wasn't available yesterday?  For sure in the fields like archeology and linguistics we know things today we didn't yesterday that assist us in understanding the scriptures but if we suggest that only material written in our lifetimes is of value then who are we exalting?:
Jack Caviness:
An unnamed right-wing radio commentator has frequently said that for most people history began the day they were born. This is becoming increasingly true in Christian circles to the impoverishment of the Church. It is the very height of arrogance to suppose that no one could possibly interpret Scripture prior to the last quarter of the 20th century:
JoshInRI:
it looks to me like a garage sale with ancient dusty books that you look at, put back, and quietly leave the garage without buyer's remorse.

Aply!
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Posts 1880
mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 27 2013 3:49 PM
Unix:

You mean L4? There is one copy being sold on ebay:

Michael Childs:
Now you take that first Platinum L5 package (which no longer has some of best commentaries originally included).  That was the best package that Logos ever offered, from my perspective.

What resources not being offered apart from the original L5 Platinum?
Posts 2841
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 27 2013 7:35 PM

No, not L4. When L5 first came out, the Platinum package contained the Pillar Commentaries, the Baker Exegetical Commentaries, and a number of other top commentaries that were later removed from the package. So glad that I bought the package before much of the best stuff was removed. That was the best package value that Logos ever offered.

Unix:

You mean L4? There is one copy being sold on ebay:

Michael Childs:
Now you take that first Platinum L5 package (which no longer has some of best commentaries originally included).  That was the best package that Logos ever offered, from my perspective.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 704
ChelseaFC | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 27 2013 11:00 PM

Michael Childs:

No, not L4. When L5 first came out, the Platinum package contained the Pillar Commentaries, the Baker Exegetical Commentaries, and a number of other top commentaries that were later removed from the package. So glad that I bought the package before much of the best stuff was removed. That was the best package value that Logos ever offered.

Unix:

You mean L4? There is one copy being sold on ebay:

Michael Childs:
Now you take that first Platinum L5 package (which no longer has some of best commentaries originally included).  That was the best package that Logos ever offered, from my perspective.

Hmmm. I thought this was L4 plantinum as well. I don't remember L5 offering that last year in the initial opening offers. Was it a Logos mistake? Many people would of jumped on that if it was around last year for a sustained period. Any helpful thoughts to clarify? Just my two pence. Thanks.

Cheers,

ChelseaFC

Chelsea FC- Today is a good day!

Posts 1931
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 28 2013 1:04 AM

Jack Caviness:
Appears that we have an abundance of Acts 17:21 folks in Christendom today. An unnamed right-wing radio commentator has frequently said that for most people history began the day they were born. This is becoming increasingly true in Christian circles to the impoverishment of the Church. It is the very height of arrogance to suppose that no one could possibly interpret Scripture prior to the last quarter of the 20th century. After all, the bible itself is a very ancient book.

Jack I love your posts.  You are great at stirring the pot to get us to think. This resonates with something I have wrestled with over the last few years. I have at times been critical of some of the public domain offerings in Logos. Sometimes this has been due to my personal desire to see other things get published. Sometimes it has been to make sure that we have access to up to date materials. 

Yet as I continue to explore, I think we walk a narrow ridge.  

One side of the ridge is to keep an eye on history.  Mistakes made in the past. Foundations that have been laid by others that we stand now on.  Thematic ways that God has dealt with and revealed himself to the church.  This is a rich treasure trove that enhances the here and now.  On my trip to Israel this summer someone said to me there are no 30 year old people in this region.  The implication was that everyone has a very deep sense of history of thousands of years.  In contrast to my own cultural and church background, I realised I don't hold a candle when it comes to understanding my history other than a thumbnail sketch.

Then there is the other side of the ridge of God doing new things. It seems every generation God continues to work in unique, but yet consistent ways. Sounds like I am talking out of two sides of my mouth! It is the same, but it is fresh and vibrant.  Also, the information age and the accessible power of computing to many, is allowing us to do analytics on things such as grammar that we have not been able to do widely before. New archaeological discoveries are bringing new elements to the discussion, often confirming and sharpening further what we have understood in the past.  I am particularly interested in current debates around linguistics.

The challenge I see is that we can slip down the ridge on one side and get stuck in the past.  We can also forget the past, believe thing it is all new and our arrogance can make us believe that time will somehow stop with our generation in understanding the scriptures.

I have some of the materials from the past, Apostolic Fathers, Calvin, Luther, Spurgeon, etc... and some of the more modern compilations of material based on them such as ACCS, RCS, Crossway. Yet I have made more space in my reference library for more older materials, regardless of whether the copyright is current, particularly if the price is really reasonable. I also am quite eager to keep reading BAR, theological journals and recently released materials.  I find sometimes recognise something is not really new and was actually said better in the past, or even worse, is possibly in error.  Yet sometimes I find something new that I think really has brought another dimension of life to a time tested truth.

One of the dangers I see is that aside from my culture and church background not knowing or appreciated history as much as might be beneficial, is that we can read one popular current book and hang our hat on it without reading critically and comparing several views. I have been and probably still am to a degree guilty of this, though I think I have learned a few hard lessons. (albeit slowly as I have a thick head sometimes)  Reading widely should not just be 'current' books, but also looking back as well to what others have written on a particular issue.

So yes, when it comes to Acts 17:21 - part of our own societal trend is still this way.  Even understanding that this was present during the time of the Apostles, puts into perspective the old challenges that this new generation faces.

Depending on what you are looking for, these deals that Logos offers from time to time can really help build your reference library.  Like many, there were only some titles that interested me (currently).  Yet the overall deal is so exceptional, there is a good chance that I will realise more treasures as I research and read.  The 500 mega pack is not for everyone, but it may help if you are finding yourself on a similar journey to mine.

Posts 1931
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 28 2013 1:35 AM

ChelseaFC:
Hmmm. I thought this was L4 plantinum as well. I don't remember L5 offering that last year in the initial opening offers. Was it a Logos mistake? Many people would of jumped on that if it was around last year for a sustained period. Any helpful thoughts to clarify? Just my two pence. Thanks.

My recollection is the biggest bang for buck in some very good commentaries was when L4 Platinum first came out. At the time, it made the justification for going from Gold to Platinum a no-brainer for many. I used to have a spreadsheet that someone produced on the various library configurations over the years, but I can't find it now.

Posts 13397
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 28 2013 2:56 AM

JoshInRI:
Am I missing something here?

The assumption in your question seems to be:

  • old=bad=worthless
  • new=good=valuable

This megapack is without doubt the best 'classic' pack put together by Logos, ever. It's the theological equivalent of finding a bundle of old films in a garage sale for $1, then discovering that the films are Gone with the Wind, It's a Wonderful Life, Citizen CaneCasablanca, North by NorthwestRear Window and Sunset Boulevard. Old, certainly, but well worth watching (and watching them will perhaps remind you what we often miss in modern blockbusters).

JoshInRI:
I am curious if any fellow Baptist Seminarians (just for example) see any value in this collection?

If you're not familiar with most of the names in this collections, I suggest a few more church history electives Wink. Andrew Fuller, for example, is one of the most important figures in early Baptist mission work. At least half the books in this bundle are written by people we should at least be aware of, and a several of them are written by people who were real giants. Elsewhere I posted this list of highlights:

Looking through the collection overall, the highlights I think are:

Puritan and other reformed works:

19th/early 20thcentury Biblical Scholarship

Posts 1931
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 28 2013 4:17 AM

Donovan R. Palmer:
Like many, there were only some titles that interested me (currently).  Yet the overall deal is so exceptional, there is a good chance that I will realise more treasures as I research and read.

I have to laugh. Just an hour later a volume pops up in my searching through my Logos library... 'A History of Preaching' - Edwin Dargan.  I did not remember buying this book, so I went to my tags to see if I could figure out where it came from... guess what? It came from the 500 Mega Book Pack. I am collecting materials on the historical development of preaching and was delighted to add this especially at the price that I got the two volumes at! It would have been much harder to pay $29 for these two volumes.  I find this happens often. I will stumble across something that I did not realise I had and I appreciate the purchase even more.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 28 2013 5:03 AM

Donovan R. Palmer:
 I find this happens often. I will stumble across something that I did not realise I had and I appreciate the purchase even more.

I think this is a common experience for most of us and when it does happen to me I appreciate my library even more.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 308
Dean J | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 28 2013 6:33 AM

JoshInRI:

Ok, I realize for some people the 500 megapack on sale looks like a great deal and some may consider Logos very generous in its offering......

That being said, it looks to me like a garage sale with ancient dusty books that you look at, put back, and quietly leave the garage without buyer's remorse.

Am I missing something here?  The Whitfield books look good but really what use are the others ones, except one or two of the commentaries, which are always useful I think.

This isn't a bash Logos post....I am curious if any fellow Baptist Seminarians (just for example) see any value in this collection?

It's a great deal if you're calvinist. In my case, I have most of the commentaries etc, and so there isn't much left that is of value to me. I wouldn't call it generous--these were probably all developed on CP and didn't cost Logos a cent. It's a sensible way of making money, and nothing wrong with it, and Logos is a generous company, but this is just good business sense on their part. 

And the works are old; now I happen to think that scholarship is declining in many ways, and for many reasons; but the fact remains, unless you need a particular work to be searchable in Logos (e.g. the commentaries), then you could save yourself hundreds (or buy something else) by reading the old works in Google Books or Internet Archive. That isn't a judgment on the content--it's just a reality that out of copyright generally means freely available. 

Posts 549
Shawn Drewett | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 28 2013 7:23 AM

Right on target Dean053. Clear thinking. 

Posts 2841
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 28 2013 8:40 AM

Unix and ChelseaFC, you both are absolutely right and I am wrong.  My memory failed me.  It was L4.  How time does fly.  Nonetheless, that still was the best value of resources ever in a Logos package , in my most humble opinion. 

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 654
David Bailey | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 28 2013 9:40 AM

Michael Childs:
Nonetheless, that still was the best value of resources ever in a Logos package , in my most humble opinion. 

The original L4 Platinum base package was the best one.  Now I think the best value packages are from Verbum Plus and maybe the Logos Portfolio.

Posts 7176
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 28 2013 11:40 AM

David Bailey:

Michael Childs:
Nonetheless, that still was the best value of resources ever in a Logos package , in my most humble opinion. 

The original L4 Platinum base package was the best one.  Now I think the best value packages are from Verbum Plus and maybe the Logos Portfolio.

Actually, the Logos 4 Platinum LE (original one) has been the best base package Logos has ever offered in their entire life time as a Bible software business.  Then the original L4 Portfolio also, since it had everything that the original Platinum L4 had.  Now base packages are full of old works and commentaries (some even from CP; e.g. Lange).  I wish there was a way for Logos to bring back the content Platinum LE in Logos 4 had plus more new stuff, but the way I see it, it seems like future base packages will be full of old CP works and premium resources by other publishes (e.g. PNTC, BECNT and others) will have to be purchased separately at a higher price --- which I wouldn't mind really, but when you sell base packages at the price logos is selling them and then they're full of old works, then I'm not sure I would like to upgrade in the future.  I hope I'm wrong and Logos listens to their customers and puts more premium high quality commentaries and other works in the L6 packages whenever L6 is released.  If there was a way Logos could include NICOT/NT in L6 Platinum or Portfolio, you can count me in to be one of those who will upgrade in a heart beat.

Blessings!

DAL

Posts 2221
GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 29 2013 3:09 AM

Facts:

1.  All the best books in this package that I want most I already have.

2.  Dynamic pricing only discounts me $25 for all those books.

3.  The rest of the package is hardly worth the rest of the cost to me.

4.  Ergo I did not buy.

5. Yet.

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