Louw Nida Number Incorrect

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Posts 24
Dave Cotner | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Jan 6 2014 6:13 AM

Good Morning,

I am using Logos bible Software 5.2 SR 3. As I was studying the word "touch" in Mark 10:13, I right clicked and chose the Louw Nida number 14.56 which returns this definition:

14.65 ἅπτω; περιάπτω; ἀνάπτω; φλογίζω; καίωb; ἐμπί(μ)πρημι: to cause the process of burning to begin—‘to ignite, to kindle, to set ablaze, to start a fire, to light a lamp.’

Now, that is obviously incorrect. Jesus did not burn the children! After digging a little more, I found that the DBL gives this definition:

721 ἅπτομαι (haptomai), ἅπτω (haptō): vb.; DBLHebr 5595; Str 680 & 681—1. LN 14.65 start a fire (Ac 28:2+); 2. LN 18.6 (dep.) hold on to, seize, grasp (Jn 20:17); 3. LN 24.73 (dep.) touch, with relatively firm contact (Mk 7:33; Lk 7:14); 4. LN 20.16 (dep.) harm (1Jn 5:18); 5. LN 34.70 (dep.) γυναικὸς ἅπτομαι (gynaikos haptomai), marry, formally, touch a woman (1Co 7:1+)

I noticed that the third definition is "touch" with the LN number 24.73. So, going there I find:

24.73 ἅπτομαιb: to touch, with the implication of relatively firm contact—‘to touch.’

Now, here's my question. How is it that every one of my LN tagged Bibles point to LN 14.65 which is obviously incorrect, and not LN 24.73 which is obviously correct? How can I report this? Thank you!

Posts 147
Timothy Brown | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 6 2014 1:08 PM

A search of the lemma shows that Mark 10:13 is not the only verse with the problem. Unless I am mistaken, the following all appear to have the wrong Louw Nida number (14.65):

<Lemma = lbs/el/ἅπτω> in ESV

Matthew 8:3
And Jesus stretched out his hand and touched him, saying, “I will; be clean.” And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.

Matthew 8:15
He touched her hand, and the fever left her, and she rose and began to serve him.

Matthew 9:20
And behold, a woman who had suffered from a discharge of blood for twelve years came up behind him and touched the fringe of his garment,

Matthew 9:21
for she said to herself, “If I only touch his garment, I will be made well.”

Matthew 9:29
Then he touched their eyes, saying, “According to your faith be it done to you.”

Matthew 14:36
and implored him that they might only touch the fringe of his garment. And as many as touched it were made well.

Matthew 17:7
But Jesus came and touched them, saying, “Rise, and have no fear.”

Matthew 20:34
And Jesus in pity touched their eyes, and immediately they recovered their sight and followed him.

Mark 1:41
Moved with pity, he stretched out his hand and touched him and said to him, “I will; be clean.”

Mark 3:10
for he had healed many, so that all who had diseases pressed around him to touch him.

Mark 5:27
She had heard the reports about Jesus and came up behind him in the crowd and touched his garment.

Mark 5:28
For she said, “If I touch even his garments, I will be made well.”

Mark 5:30
And Jesus, perceiving in himself that power had gone out from him, immediately turned about in the crowd and said, “Who touched my garments?”

Mark 5:31
And his disciples said to him, “You see the crowd pressing around you, and yet you say, ‘Who touched me?’ ”

Mark 6:56
And wherever he came, in villages, cities, or countryside, they laid the sick in the marketplaces and implored him that they might touch even the fringe of his garment. And as many as touched it were made well.

Mark 8:22
And they came to Bethsaida. And some people brought to him a blind man and begged him to touch him.

Mark 10:13
And they were bringing children to him that he might touch them, and the disciples rebuked them.

Luke 5:13
And Jesus stretched out his hand and touched him, saying, “I will; be clean.” And immediately the leprosy left him.

Luke 6:19
And all the crowd sought to touch him, for power came out from him and healed them all.

Luke 7:39
Now when the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, “If this man were a prophet, he would have known who and what sort of woman this is who is touching him, for she is a sinner.”

Luke 8:44
She came up behind him and touched the fringe of his garment, and immediately her discharge of blood ceased.

Luke 8:45
And Jesus said, “Who was it that touched me?” When all denied it, Peter said, “Master, the crowds surround you and are pressing in on you!”

Luke 8:46
But Jesus said, “Someone touched me, for I perceive that power has gone out from me.”

Luke 8:47
And when the woman saw that she was not hidden, she came trembling, and falling down before him declared in the presence of all the people why she had touched him, and how she had been immediately healed.

Luke 18:15
Now they were bringing even infants to him that he might touch them. And when the disciples saw it, they rebuked them.

Luke 22:51
But Jesus said, “No more of this!” And he touched his ear and healed him.

This can be reported to data@logos.com.

Windows 8.1 64-bit, Core i5-3330, 8GB RAM

Posts 24
Dave Cotner | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 6 2014 1:56 PM

Logos,

Looks like some major LN tagging issues. Can this be fixed?

Posts 9944
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 6 2014 3:02 PM

Dave Cotner:

Logos,

Looks like some major LN tagging issues. Can this be fixed?

Yes, it should be LN 24.73.  The word is ἅπτομαι which is the middle of ἅπτω.  A double-click on the word will bring up ἅπτω in BDAG which shows the difference.  If you haven't already done so, I would recommend reporting it as a typo.

BTW:  It appears only 4 times in the NT in the active voice.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 17
Mark Keaton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 7 2014 10:47 AM

Hey Dave,

That looks like an annotation error. We'll get that fixed.

But on the bright side, the Bible Sense Lexicon had it right!

The BSL is tagged at that location as:
to handle (touch) — to touch firmly or grasp with the hands; sometimes construed by one aspect alone (like touching).”

Not that I'm biased or anything... Stick out tongue

-Mark (of the Bible Sense Lexicon Team)

Posts 1728
Beloved | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 4 2018 5:51 AM

4 years and the errors go uncorrected. Let's get FL attention here!

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

Posts 1728
Beloved | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 22 2018 1:03 PM

Thank you FL for addressing this issue. I've checked the Reverse Interlinears I use most and the bug has been fixed! 

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

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