Logos March Madness: No Women?

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Posts 171
Adam Rao | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Mar 4 2014 8:27 AM

In picking 64 different authors, not a single female author made it into the mix. That's just... perplexing.

I realize that Logos is a conservative, evangelical company. That's very clear from the new online course offerings, the blog posts, and more. But, not all of Logos' users - including me - fall into that theological tradition.

Couldn't you have at least included some female scholars?

How about Adele Berlin, for example, whose JPS commentary on Esther would make a fine addition to anyone's library? Her work as an editor on the Jewish Study Bible could have been recognized with a discount on that fine resource, too.

Or, maybe Brigitte Kahl whose Galatians Reimagined is an outstanding reading of Galatians in the context of imperial Rome?

Or, perhaps Sharon Ringe, which could have led to discounts on the Women's Bible Commentary and the Westminster Bible Companion commentary set?

Just a thought.

Posts 946
P A | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 4 2014 8:38 AM

Yes I was surprised by the list.

A bit more diversity would be welcomed. 

Smile

P A

Posts 276
Gary Osborne | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 4 2014 9:04 AM

I agree concerning diversity, but I wouldn't limit it to gender diversity.  I vote for more theological diversity.  It seems like this year it's more about Hyper-Calvinism vs semi-Hyper Calvinism vs Reformed Theology vs partial TULIP theology.  The majority of it is weighted in the direction of one theological stream.  Being a conservative, but committed Pentecostal that certainly leans in the direction of Arminian/Wesleyan/Pentecostal theology makes most of these matchups meaningless to me.  And it's been that way for about as long as I've been with Logos.  But I know I'm in the minority and this isn't going to change, so I'll just take joy in the fact that my wallet will be happy at the end of the month.  Big Smile

Posts 13423
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 4 2014 9:08 AM

Adam Rao:

How about Adele Berlin, for example, whose JPS commentary on Esther would make a fine addition to anyone's library? Her work as an editor on the Jewish Study Bible could have been recognized with a discount on that fine resource, too.

Or, maybe Brigitte Kahl whose Galatians Reimagined is an outstanding reading of Galatians in the context of imperial Rome?

Or, perhaps Sharon Ringe, which could have led to discounts on the Women's Bible Commentary and the Westminster Bible Companion commentary set?

I agree with the thrust of your suggestion, although I'm not sure what it's got to do with conservative evangelicalism - there are many excellent women authors in that stream, including Karen Jobes and Joyce Baldwin.

But the March Madness discounts only apply to resources where the author is the sole author, which would mean only two resources from Adele Berlin, one from Brigitte Kahl, and none from Sharon Ringe. This may well have been one of the reasons they weren't included.

Posts 77
Carmen L. Santiago | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 4 2014 9:58 AM

I totally agree with you.

Posts 8612
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 4 2014 2:55 PM

I'm not a chauvinist, but I'd say the level of scholarship on men's works is far more superior than that of women; so I'd rather have this whole March Madness be about men's titles than women's titles (since they're not that many or they're co-authored with a man anyway Wink ).  Don't get me wrong, I own June Hunt's "Counseling Library" and other books written from a woman's perspective, but if anything, they should just do a "Woman's March Madness" for women only like those Base Packages for women only Logos has or used to have at some point (though I assume the competition would be very limited on choices).  Also, I'm almost certain that women's titles wouldn't make it out of the first round anyway, so you might as well just call sales any time of the year and they'll give you the same discount or better (or similar). Big Smile Stick out tongue Angel I know, I know, the point is to include our precious women who are devoted to God in this "competition" but I assume is a marketing or politics type of thing to allow for more profit to be generated during this special sale and other sales promoted by Logos.  So don't hate the players, hate the game or vice versa...or...I don't know, I should just keep quiet...LOL

DAL

Ps. To our beloved, faithful women authors and those women that want a sale on women's books -- Even though you were not included in this competition, WE STILL LOVE YOU AND APPRECIATE YOUR WORK! Yes

Posts 1886
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 4 2014 3:22 PM

As someone who has been amazed at the scholarship of Phylis Trible, Catherine Mowry LaCugna, Elizabeth Schusessler Fiorenza, and Elizabeth Johnson (just to rattle a few quick names off my head) your statement floors me.  No, many of these are not available for Logos, but more of their work should be...  They may not be popular with many of the likely voters for Logos March Madness, but they are top notch scholars in their fields.

SDG

Ken McGuire

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials

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Posts 317
Bruce Roth | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 4 2014 3:31 PM

I am wondering if anyone here or from Logos has a number of the available resources that are solely authored by a woman or co-authored. I assume it would have to be recent resources and probably a tiny percentage Of the total. 

Someday we we may begin to see more resources by women, but it will orobably be glacial. 

Posts 8612
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 4 2014 4:13 PM

Ken McGuire:

As someone who has been amazed at the scholarship of Phylis Trible, Catherine Mowry LaCugna, Elizabeth Schusessler Fiorenza, and Elizabeth Johnson (just to rattle a few quick names off my head) your statement floors me.  No, it is not available for Logos, but some of their work should be...  They may not be popular with many of the likely voters for Logos March Madness, but they are top notch scholars in their fields.

SDG

Ken McGuire

I'm sorry (and you might think "where has this guy been?") but I've never heard of these ladies you've just mentioned.  What do they write about? I'm barely familiar with June Hunt, Kay Arthur (which we seriously need her inductive series and Bible in Logos), Joyce Meyer and the rest listed in Logos I really don't know who they are,except for the brief biography Logos writes about the author.  Most of the titles are about "Women's Bible Studies" on practical topics, nothing "meaty" like Carson, Beale, Keener, Blomberg, etc. Anyway, we still love them, though Smile 

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 4 2014 4:25 PM

DAL, you're cracking me up!  Not to mention your interesting choice of words. Very apropo.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 8612
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 4 2014 4:54 PM

Denise:

DAL, you're cracking me up!  Not to mention your interesting choice of words. Very apropo.

I'm glad I'm cracking you up! But, yeah, seriously, pardon my ignorance but I'm just not familiar with many women authors and what their expertise is and all the little details.  I love you too...LOL Stick out tongue

Posts 5710
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 4 2014 5:05 PM

Gary Osborne:
I vote for more theological diversity.  It seems like this year it's more about Hyper-Calvinism vs semi-Hyper Calvinism vs Reformed Theology vs partial TULIP theology.  The majority of it is weighted in the direction of one theological stream.  Being a conservative, but committed Pentecostal that certainly leans in the direction of Arminian/Wesleyan/Pentecostal theology makes most of these matchups meaningless to me.

And for me as a Catholic it's even worse. Last year I could vote for Thomas a Kempis. This year the token Catholic is G. K. Chesterton, both figures who should and do appeal to many varieties of Protestants (and/including Anglicans). Don't get me wrong, Thomas a Kempis and G. K. Chesterton are great authors and I'm looking forward to the discounting of Chesterton's works later this spring, but...

“Whoever looks upon the Crucified One sees what love is.” — Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger

Posts 5321
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 4 2014 5:06 PM

Dead (or live) straight white men seem to be the majority of those read in the North American Christian market. Because we are unfamiliar with other voices definitely  doesn't mean their voices are not important to be heard and often VERY important to hear. I hope one day more voices will be heard in the Logos Library.

-Dan

Posts 1886
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 4 2014 6:24 PM

DAL:
I'm sorry (and you might think "where has this guy been?") but I've never heard of these ladies you've just mentioned.

Phylis Trible is a an American Baptist scholar of the Hebrew Bible who has written a couple books on stories that have been used to oppress women - namely God and the Rhetoric of Sexuality and Texts of Terror.  She takes them apart and shows how they actually say much more than they have often been read.  Her "best hits" are available in Logos, and I edited my post to include the link...  She has described her study as being like Jacob wrestling with the Angel - refusing to let go of these texts until she receives a blessing...

Catherine Mowry LaCugna taught theology at Notre Dame and wrote one of the classics of late 20th Century Trinitarian theology - God For Us.  While it does speak a bit about gender issues, this is hardly her main concern.  It is rather how the nature of the God we worship shapes our Christian life...  I almost cannot imagine it not being referenced in discussion of the Christian Doctrine of God...

Elizabeth Schuessler Fiorenza's magnum opus is In Memory of Her.  It is a take on the early church - including new testament witness, showing the influence of women on it.  The title is a reference to Mark 14:9, where the woman who anoints Jesus for burial has sadly even lost her name to history, in spite of being so lifted up by Jesus.

Elizabeth Johnson takes on the question of how the salvation of Women works in the classical Christological terms.  What does the Patristic maxim "Not Assumed - Not Redeemed" - so important for the 4th/5th century debates - mean for us today?  How has Jesus assumed WOMEN'S lives and experiences as well as men, so while a historical MALE, he is the "vere homo" we proclaim him to be and not just "vere aner".

They are all solid scholars, and of course, you need not agree with any of them.  But they deserve to be treated with respect, and their concerns and perspective is needed to hear how we are heard by many in the world today.

SDG

Ken McGuire

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials

L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 4 2014 7:07 PM

I think Dan's point is well taken.

Guys like DAL (no offense, DAL) shouldn't be expected to seek books they've no particular need for. I only end up with a bunch of female scholars because their areas are the ones my rabbits seem to run off to ... archaeology, culture, background, etc.

So, a set of choices that appeal to DAL is certainly appropriate; it's just that Logos didn't see any observable need to appeal to other sizable and identyable Christian groups.  I really don't know why that is (especially our new Catholic participants).

I do think in defense of the female variety of scholars, traditions die hard. Very hard. There was a time when I was the highest ranking female in a 70,000 person company and eventually the company said 'enough is enough' and demanded more diversity. I do foresee the day when Christianity is the last bastion of the racial/cultural divide, and so also the gender.

And before someone starts up on racial/cultural, I don't know how many native american churches I've been in, where my whitish hair was all there was to be had.  Everyone's pretty much on their own to fight their own battles.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 1991
Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 4 2014 7:48 PM

Dan Francis:
straight white men seem to be the majority of those read in the North American Christian

"straight" ?  You're kidding, right? Should I assume you think there should be more willingness among North Americans to read from crooked authors, or homosexual authors? And should the authors be repentant crooks?

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 4 2014 7:58 PM

DAL:
I'm not a chauvinist, but I'd say the level of scholarship on men's works is far more superior than that of women;

So what ARE you? Stick out tongue I would suggest that among academic books women's scholarship is far superior because it is so much harder for the women to get into a position where they can publish academic books. At the very least, i can state that the worst drivel I've been asked to read is all by men (of course, the vast majority of what I'm asked to read is by men). I suspect statistics would support my statements more strongly than yours. I have had the good fortunate of rarely being asked to judge a work by the gender of its author - the exception was Renita Weems' Just a Sister Away.

DAL:
but I'm just not familiar with many women authors and what their expertise is

To correct your ignorance, I would assign the following authors - read nothing else until you're ready to "take back them fightin' words":

  • Roberta Bondi
  • Amy-Jill Levine
  • Benedicta Ward
  • Adele Berlin
  • Barbara Green (include female authors she has edited):
  • Johanna Mannley
  • Hildegard von Bingen
  • Carolyn Oslek
  • Sharyn Dowd
  • Mary Ann Beavis
  • Helen Waddell
  • Chava Weissler
  • Gail Ramshaw
  • Frederica Mathewes-Green

That should do as a start ... but if you're a slow learner I can double or triple the list - just ask. And, yes, these should all be in Logos.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 452
Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 4 2014 8:08 PM

Excellent list, MJ. I would add Maryanne Meye Thompson and Beverly Gaventa to it as well.

Did I miss something, or is literally every single contestant an old white man?

Posts 5321
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 4 2014 8:20 PM

Robert M. Warren:

Dan Francis:
straight white men seem to be the majority of those read in the North American Christian

"straight" ?  You're kidding, right? Should I assume you think there should be more willingness among North Americans to read from crooked authors, or homosexual authors? And should the authors be repentant crooks?

I was quoting a lesbian author I had read once. Complaining on history and academia being based on  "white dead straight men". I read Indecent Theology by Marcella Althaus-Reid and while I would't say I agree with her positions fully, I thought she had many valid points. One of Christianity's favourite ghost writers Mel White wrote many books for people likely Billy Graham and Jerry Falwell. We are all sinners saved by grace. Test what you read by scripture, hold on to the truth and discard the false. 

-Dan

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 4 2014 8:32 PM

Mitchell:
Did I miss something,

No

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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