Page numbers for Bibles please!

Page 1 of 2 (25 items) 1 2 Next >
This post has 24 Replies | 0 Followers

Posts 3771
Francis | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, May 12 2014 12:19 PM

I never noticed this until recently, but many (all?) Bibles do not show page numbers at all in logos. They can only be referenced by Bible referenced. This is a problem for those who us who need to cite or to document the number of pages we have read. It would be good to fix this please.

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 12 2014 12:29 PM

I can't help but think that this may be difficult. Given the approximately 432,693 different print editions of each individual version, it's going to be arbitrary at best.

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 1359
Edwin Bowden | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 12 2014 1:24 PM

Page numbers for the vest pocket edition or the giant print? Wink

Posts 3771
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 12 2014 9:08 PM

I am not sure whether it is valid to think of Logos Bibles as contents only and not specific editions. For one, whether it is footnotes, cross-references but even paragraph formatting must be based on specific editions. For two, other books exist in different sizes and editions as well but no one will argue that they can't have page numbers for that reason. I think that when Logos publishes, they pick an edition (but I'm ready to be corrected on that if I got it wrong). Third, does Logos retype everything or do they use one of these super-duper scanners to digitalize books? If the latter, this again, would have to be based on a specific edition... with page numbers. Beer

Posts 26944
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 12 2014 10:39 PM

Francis:
I never noticed this until recently, but many (all?) Bibles do not show page numbers at all in logos...This is a problem for those who us who need to cite or to document the number of pages we have read.

AV1873 has Roman numerals for its introductions & then cites Page cxix for all the bible text. This could be fixed but I doubt that inserting page numbers in the bible text of most/all bibles will be easy, let alone meaningful.

How were you managing before you noticed?

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 5318
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 12 2014 10:46 PM

Francis:
Third, does Logos retype everything or do they use one of these super-duper scanners to digitalize books?

They tend to get raw digital text from publishers and then properly format it for Logos. When they are dealing with an older translation yes it is scanned checked and formatted for Logos. But I would bet Bible databases have no setting for inputing a page number... To me this would equate to what colour bottle (or pitcher ) does the water come in. Not unimportant but not something generally one is concerned with if one asks for water at a restaurant.

-Dan

PS: Even translations that list as having page counts like the REB and NEB do not have anyway to look at a page number (as far as I can tell).

Posts 5416
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 12 2014 11:34 PM

Dave Hooton:

How were you managing before you noticed?

Lol...great question. Cool

ASROCK x570 Creator, AMD R9 3950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, Asus Strix RTX 2080 ti, 2tb m.2 Seagate Firecuda SSD (x2) ...and other mechano-digital happiness.

"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not."

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 13 2014 5:11 AM

It seems to me, and others can correct me if I'm mistaken, but if a Logos resource does include physical page numbers in the text / citation, that they are derived form the commonly cited version of said printed text. Or the edition that is commonly used in academia.

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 5318
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 13 2014 10:16 AM

Paul Golder:
It seems to me, and others can correct me if I'm mistaken, but if a Logos resource does include physical page numbers in the text / citation, that they are derived form the commonly cited version of said printed text. Or the edition that is commonly used in academia.

Most certainly but Biblical texts have never included page numbers, according to the citation guide. The Chicago Manual of Style information is simply.

The Holy Bible: New Revised Standard Version. Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1989.

Since as it has been pointed out there are literally thousands of different print editions page numbers are not a meaningful reference point. Below is the same style of a commentary, listing the page number at the very end:

The Lord delivers (v. 9c). That assertion is tacked onto the end of the psalm as a kind of slogan, just as one might tack a motto on the wall saying “God answers prayer” or “Jesus saves.” It is as if within the excitement of the story the storyteller stops the action to make a direct statement to the hearers. He knows that he has their attention, because they are caught up in the story. His message is a simple one, only two words in Hebrew: yeshuata leyahweh, “deliverance/salvation is from the Lord.”
The word for deliverance or salvation is yeshua. When the angel announced to Mary that she would have a son, he said, “you shall call his name Jesus [Hebrew, yeshua], for he will save his people from their sins” (Matt. 1:21). The Christian reader cannot hear this final statement of the psalm in Jonah without hearing the name of Jesus, which has meant salvation for the peoples of the world (John 3:16).


James Limburg, Hosea–Micah, Interpretation, a Bible Commentary for Teaching and Preaching (Atlanta, GA: John Knox Press, 1988), 148.

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 13 2014 10:47 AM

There is the old joke that Preachers and teachers use when reading from a seldom referenced book of the Bible:

"Please turn to Zephaniah 1:7 (pregnant pause while the congregation is thumbing through their Bibles trying to figure out where Zephaniah is), it's on page 873 of my Bible if that will help..."

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 1938
Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 13 2014 11:32 AM

I had wondered about pagination in different print editions of the same Bible. When I used to take a print Bible to church (where many in the congregation use the MacArthur SB NASB), I noticed that when I turned the page during a reading, I could hear several others turning also, and I think I'm the only old goat that was using the large print edition. An interesting coincidence, if not scientific.

Windows 10 (L9 Beta) | Android 9 (phone - L9 Beta) | Fire OS 7 (tablet - L9 Stable)

Posts 3771
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 13 2014 12:22 PM

Dave Hooton:
How were you managing before you noticed?

If I have written now about this, it's because I have a need for it. If I have not written about it before, it's because I did not have need for it before. Hmm

As it turns out, in this case, I am taking a reading course and there is a number of pages prescribed for primary sources. These include the Apocrypha which are found in various Bible and LXX versions. If I were reading from a print version, I could document the number of pages. The problem of different editions being addressed with the instruction to use a standard size Bible, not a pocket, large print or study edition. 

But you will certainly be glad to know that I WILL SURVIVE Stick out tongue

Hopefully, that is.

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 13 2014 12:29 PM

Francis:
If I were reading from a print version, I could document the number of pages.

If you happen to have a print version (owned or borrowed) you could always just reference it to add the page numbers to the citation.

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 33231
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 13 2014 12:48 PM

Francis:
I am taking a reading course and there is a number of pages prescribed for primary sources.

Ah, now your request makes sense. It's the instructor who set up the requires who doesn't make senseWink I would ask for (or simply invent my own) a formula based on average length chapters and estimate the number of "pages".

Formula : pages in bible / chapters in bible rounded to the nearest 1/10th gives average chapter length

number of chapters read multiplies by average chapter length gives number of pages read

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 3771
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 13 2014 1:26 PM

MJ. Smith:

Formula : pages in bible / chapters in bible rounded to the nearest 1/10th gives average chapter length

number of chapters read multiplies by average chapter length gives number of pages read

Yes, I suppose, but then we might need to take the student's latitude and the atmospheric pressure into account...

Posts 33231
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 13 2014 1:45 PM

Francis:
we might need to take the student's latitude and the atmospheric pressure into account...

Big Smile

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 13 2014 1:47 PM

Just thinking about MJ's idea, Logos could add an artificial pagination function to all Bibles. One that would show program determined page numbers both on the screen, and in citations as needed.

That would be a cool feature.

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 12062
Forum MVP
NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 13 2014 1:49 PM

Francis:

MJ. Smith:

Formula : pages in bible / chapters in bible rounded to the nearest 1/10th gives average chapter length

number of chapters read multiplies by average chapter length gives number of pages read

Yes, I suppose, but then we might need to take the student's latitude and the atmospheric pressure into account...

In this case you should check out a large print bible with extra-wide margin (possibly at Amazon) and note your reading schedule there, then perform the actual reading in Logos (or vise versa)....

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 13 2014 5:36 PM

Francis:
These include the Apocrypha which are found in various Bible and LXX versions. If I were reading from a print version, I could document the number of pages.

Logos Print/Export shows 62 pages for I & II Esdras with Tobit using Normal margins:

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 3771
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 13 2014 9:00 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Logos Print/Export shows 62 pages for I & II Esdras with Tobit using Normal margins:

It's a good idea but it does not work because it shows how many pages for 8x11 paper pages format, not what it normally would be nor necessarily the same margins. 

Page 1 of 2 (25 items) 1 2 Next > | RSS