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Posts 6893
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 10 2017 3:46 AM

Aaron Knotts:

Ohhh...yeah...I think I may have used that years ago - was it available on the palm pilot? Sounds a little bit familiar now.

DAL:

WORDSearch  Bible software.

DAL

What’s a palm pilot? 😁 Just kidding! I think they did. They also have the Gospel Advocate commentaries. Not indepth, but practical.

DAL

Posts 3
Felmar Roel Rap. Singco | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 18 2017 7:45 AM

I am willing to join, thanks.

Posts 114
Gerald | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 18 2017 8:42 AM

This is of interest to me because I was baptized into the Christian Church at age 12. It wasn't a Disciples of Christ affiliated church, but it did identify with the nearby congregation of Disciples of Christ. We had two lay speakers at my church who attended this nearby church and one of them performed my baptism in the Disciples of Christ baptismal tub. (I was fully immersed.) Currently I am a member and attend a local SBC Baptist Church. I am currently in my mid 50's.

The Church of Christ is strong in my area. I wasn't really aware of the connections between the two churches and how they started. I wasn't aware of the term "Campbellite".

One thing I did note as a young adult after college and getting married was the lack of emphasis of the Holy Spirit in the Christian Church compared to the United Methodist Church my wife and I attended. I don't recall any teaching on the Holy Spirit from the church I was baptized into.

Unfortunately it appears the original thread starter has left Logos Forums. I hope the discourse did not offend him.

In Christ

Posts 3216
Whyndell Grizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 18 2017 9:20 AM

"Form A.D. 33" LOL that's rich Wink

Posts 1022
Keith Pang | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 18 2017 11:23 AM

Man...that guy who started this post originally really needs to know the Lord or get a heart check...so much anger and condemnation on people who don't think like him...like he knows it all...Angry

Shalom, in Christ, Keith. Check out my music www.soundcloud.com/kpang808

Posts 1064
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 18 2017 12:40 PM

Gerald:

Unfortunately it appears the original thread starter has left Logos Forums. I hope the discourse did not offend him.

I suspect it may have.  Looking at his forum activity, it appears that this was pretty much the only topic he posted on, and he hasn't posted anything since September 2014.

Keith Pang:

Man...that guy who started this post originally really needs to know the Lord or get a heart check...so much anger and condemnation on people who don't think like him...like he knows it all...Angry

I think we can let it go now. He hasn't been part of the forum community for three years now.

Posts 1022
Keith Pang | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 18 2017 12:49 PM

I know, I understand what you're saying. That was just what I saw for the first time today since the thread got brought back to life. 

Shalom, in Christ, Keith. Check out my music www.soundcloud.com/kpang808

Posts 6893
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 18 2017 12:55 PM

Keith Pang:

Man...that guy who started this post originally really needs to know the Lord or get a heart check...so much anger and condemnation on people who don't think like him...like he knows it all...Angry

Earlier I wrote a reply about his arrogance that stems from the school of preaching he graduated from. I decided not to post it because I didn’t want to come across as arrogant or condemning myself, but I’m glad I was not the only one who saw right through him. I wrote it in reply to the earlier post about him (the O.P.) no longer being in the conversation.

To illustrate my point:

I went to SOP A (school of preaching  A), he went to SOP B and another group just like his group went to SOP C. All these SOP decided to take the students to a weekend long lectureship hosted by a church in the area. I tried to go and mingle with some of the students from SOP B and C and they wouldn’t even talk to me or shake my hand because my SOP wasn’t as good as theirs.

Honestly, I felt disappointed and like if I was in high school trying to be friends with rival gangs. Very weird feeling to say the least. Being a new minister prospect back then, it kind of made me wonder what their motives were for being in a school where they were supposed to be training to help lead others to Christ. They criticize legalistic people, but they are legalis themselves. Sad indeed!

DAL

Posts 1022
Keith Pang | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 18 2017 1:01 PM

DAL:

Earlier I wrote a reply about his arrogance that stems from the school of preaching he graduated from. I decided not to post it because I didn’t want to come across as arrogant or condemning myself, but I’m glad I was not the only one who saw right through him. I wrote it in reply to the earlier post about him (the O.P.) no longer being in the conversation.

To illustrate my point:

I went to SOP A (school of preaching  A), he went to SOP B and another group just like his group went to SOP C. All these SOP decided to take the students to a weekend long lectureship hosted by a church in the area. I tried to go and mingle with some of the students from SOP B and C and they wouldn’t even talk to me or shake my hand because my SOP wasn’t as good as theirs.

Honestly, I felt disappointed and like if I was in high school trying to be friends with rival gangs. Very weird feeling to say the least. Being a new minister prospect back then, it kind of made me wonder what their motives were for being in a school where they were supposed to be training to help lead others to Christ. They criticize legalistic people, but they are legalis themselves. Sad indeed!

DAL

Well said DAL

Shalom, in Christ, Keith. Check out my music www.soundcloud.com/kpang808

Posts 1064
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 18 2017 1:07 PM

DAL:

Earlier I wrote a reply about his arrogance that stems from the school of preaching he graduated from...

I want to be very careful here, because schools of preaching have turned out many effective servants for the Lord. I think they're at their best, though, when an already mature Christian wants to turn from a secular career to the ministry. A school of preaching can provide an invaluable crash-course, if you will, to deepen their knowledge of Scripture and prepare them for preaching week in and week out.

My sense is that they are often less effective for the young Christian who is not yet mature. It's an intense environment that often focuses almost exclusively on the views of a particular segment of a denomination, and the sense of really "digging into" doctrine can foster a self-confidence in one's understanding of God's will that simply isn't justified. 

From what I've seen, the broader and more rounded education of a Christian college - and perhaps a year or two of working - can provide a better foundation for a young person who wants to go into the full-time ministry.

Posts 6893
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 18 2017 1:09 PM

EastTN:

Gerald:

Unfortunately it appears the original thread starter has left Logos Forums. I hope the discourse did not offend him.

I suspect it may have.  Looking at his forum activity, it appears that this was pretty much the only topic he posted on, and he hasn't posted anything since September 2014.

...

I think we can let it go now. He hasn't been part of the forum community for three years now.

Yep, we can let it go. And trust me, he didn’t get offended, he left because we don’t think like him and we’re not good enough. The guy didn’t even know how to use “And thus...” in a sentence and now he uses it as part of his every sermon he preaches or discussion he has. It’s the typical “catch phrase” that his particular SOP teaches their students to sound bright 😁  I’m not making fun of them but their school is like a cookie-cutter; you should hear the graduates preach sermons they all sound the same LOL... “ And thus, brethren, I have articulated the truths of the Bible with a plethora of examples that emanate from the holy pages of the sacred record...” ðŸĪŠ I know one too many that sound alike, so I got proof 😂👍😁👌

Blessings!

DAL

Posts 6893
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 18 2017 1:15 PM

EastTN:

DAL:

Earlier I wrote a reply about his arrogance that stems from the school of preaching he graduated from...

I want to be very careful here, because schools of preaching have turned out many effective servants for the Lord. I think they're at their best, though, when an already mature Christian wants to turn from a secular career to the ministry. A school of preaching can provide an invaluable crash-course, if you will, to deepen their knowledge of Scripture and prepare them for preaching week in and week out.

My sense is that they are often less effective for the young Christian who is not yet mature. It's an intense environment that often focuses almost exclusively on the views of a particular segment of a denomination, and the sense of really "digging into" doctrine can foster a self-confidence in one's understanding of God's will that simply isn't justified. 

From what I've seen, the broader and more rounded education of a Christian college - and perhaps a year or two of working - can provide a better foundation for a young person who wants to go into the full-time ministry.

 Yes, you are correct!  I really don’t think letting someone fresh out of high school go to a school of preaching will do them much good. They are too young and they can fall into the same condemnation as Satan did.

And yes, even those X schools of preaching have provided great ministers for the church.

Blessings!

DAL

Posts 1064
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 18 2017 1:20 PM

DAL:

...And trust me, he didn’t get offended, he left because we don’t think like him and we’re not good enough. The guy didn’t even know how to use “And thus...” in a sentence and now he uses it as part of his every sermon he preaches or discussion he has. It’s the typical “catch phrase” that his particular SOP teaches their students to sound bright 😁  I’m not making fun of them but their school is like a cookie-cutter; you should hear the graduates preach sermons they all sound the same LOL... “ And thus, brethren, I have articulated the truths of the Bible with a plethora of examples that emanate from the holy pages of the sacred record...” ðŸĪŠ I know one too many that sound alike, so I got proof 😂👍😁👌

Perhaps. That cookie cutter similarity is something you see with many schools of preaching.  In my mind, it's a characteristic weakness of that form of training, and I blame the schools.  The programs simply aren't designed with enough time to give students a solid foundation as good public speakers, so they resort to teaching them a formula for preaching. They also aren't designed with enough time to give them the foundation in Scripture that you'd get with a four-year Bible degree, much less a seminary degree.  So again, they resort to giving them "survival level" training in the basic doctrines of their particular church.

A mature Christian, who understands what they're getting, will be able to take it and use it in a way that makes sense. A novice Christian will be able to knock out cookie-cutter sermons for a congregation that might otherwise have no sermons at - and if they're lucky, will have some life experiences that will help them grow out of it.

Posts 1064
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 18 2017 1:22 PM

DAL:

 Yes, you are correct!  I really don’t think letting someone fresh out of high school go to a school of preaching will do them much good. They are too young and they can fall into the same condemnation as Satan did.

And yes, even those X schools of preaching have provided great ministers for the church.

Blessings!

DAL

I think we're on the same page here (and I apologize if I came across as critical).

Posts 114
Gerald | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 18 2017 2:41 PM

Denise:

James C. ... don't feel too bad.  I got myself kicked out too (but on the other side of the spectrum).  Looking at the bookstore site and the schools supported (eg Memphis), it looks like the church of Christ my aunt attends (had lunch with her yesterday).  I can see why they'd need to meet on facebook.

The church of Christ varients are interesting. Chatting with my aunt, she knew where I 'lived' and I knew where she 'lived'. So our discussion of how our respective churches are coming along is not unlike a minefield.  It's unfortunate.  One time I was driving up to Utah and wanted to stop in a church of Christ I'd been to as a child. It was small, and the first order of 'business' (Bible study) was to identify where 'the visitor' stood.  And not to be outdone, where the preacher and elders stood.  After an hour, we'd successfully agreed Homer Hailey was good and had been unfairly tagged by the more conservative varients.  But being the humorous type, I threw in my destination was the Zion bookstore in St George.

Interesting...If I were to say to I had been to Temple Square in Salt Lake City, would I be barred from fellowship?Wink

After reading through the OP explanations of his denomination, I am reminded of the scene in "The Jerk" where Steve Martin's carnival game operator character explained what prizes were actually eligible to win. (If you don't understand my reference, I don't recommend watching the movie.)

Posts 1942
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 18 2017 2:47 PM

DAL:
 Yes, you are correct!  I really don’t think letting someone fresh out of high school go to a school of preaching will do them much good. They are too young and they can fall into the same condemnation as Satan did.

While I did not  agree with the perspective of the OP as to his group being the true "churches of Christ", I did go straight from High School to a Bible Institute into pastoral ministry. Yes, I made mistakes and am wiser now than I was 30 years ago. But I also trust I will have more wisdom should the Lord give me another 30 years.  Many years of fruitful kingdom impact can be lost if a waiting period is imposed upon ministry preparation.

From a Logos search and using "Copy Bible Verses" tool - 

1 Timothy 4:12–16 (LEB:2012)

12 Let no one look down on your youth, but be an example for the believers in word, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity. 13 Until I come, pay attention to the public reading, to exhortation, to teaching. 14 Do not neglect the gift that is in you, that was granted to you through prophecy with the laying on of hands by the council of elders. 15 Practice these things. Be diligent in these things, in order that your progress may be evident to everyone. 16 Fix your attention on yourself and on your teaching. Continue in them, for by* doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

Posts 1064
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 18 2017 3:32 PM

David Thomas:

While I did not  agree with the perspective of the OP as to his group being the true "churches of Christ", I did go straight from High School to a Bible Institute into pastoral ministry. Yes, I made mistakes and am wiser now than I was 30 years ago. But I also trust I will have more wisdom should the Lord give me another 30 years.  Many years of fruitful kingdom impact can be lost if a waiting period is imposed upon ministry preparation.

From a Logos search and using "Copy Bible Verses" tool - 

1 Timothy 4:12–16 (LEB:2012)

12 Let no one look down on your youth, but be an example for the believers in word, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity. 13 Until I come, pay attention to the public reading, to exhortation, to teaching. 14 Do not neglect the gift that is in you, that was granted to you through prophecy with the laying on of hands by the council of elders. 15 Practice these things. Be diligent in these things, in order that your progress may be evident to everyone. 16 Fix your attention on yourself and on your teaching. Continue in them, for by* doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.

David, I apologize if I said anything that offended you. Not all schools of preaching are the same, and some young men are much more mature in the faith (and in other ways as well) than others.  I do believe that these institutions have an important role to play in the kingdom.  My only real point was that just like seminaries, public schools, or any other institution, we need to understand their weaknesses as well as their strengths.

And may the Lord grant that we may all grow in wisdom and grace in however many years he may choose to give us.

Posts 6893
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 18 2017 4:52 PM

David Thomas, I didn’t mean to generalize, but unfortunately we live in times that are very different. You were one of the few mature young men that made it, but the ones I’ve seen some didn’t even graduate, others got kicked out of preaching school and others started their ministry only to abandon their calling because it wasn’t for them. Others continue when they should’ve quit a long time ago instead of harming the church.

In either case, there’s always a remnant that stays faithful and does good and I’m glad you’re among that remnant.

Have a blessed weekend!

DAL

Posts 1942
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 20 2017 9:18 AM

EastTN:
I apologize if I said anything that offended you. Not all schools of preaching are the same,

No offense taken. I agree that not all schools are the same. I have also seen some pretty wacked out ideas promoted by inexperienced preachers who did not realize how inexperienced they were (are!).

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

Posts 1942
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 20 2017 9:25 AM

DAL:
I didn’t mean to generalize, but unfortunately we live in times that are very different...some didn’t even graduate, others got kicked out of preaching school and others started their ministry only to abandon their calling...Others continue when they should’ve quit a long time ago instead of harming the church.

DAL, I concur that many enter "ministry" with little wisdom, less tact, and even less of a divine calling." Some of this is due to youthfulness, in other situations I've seen the same tendencies in "second-career" preachers. Rom 1:22 " claiming to be wise, they became fools" [taken out of context]

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

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