Why does Logos 4 have extreme computer requirements?

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Herb Rader | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Jan 2 2010 2:26 PM

I have a computer which I still use for video editing with Avid Liquid. Logos 4 will not work on this computer. How is it possible that the requirements for Logos 4 are greater than those of a professional video editing program? It seems like something is not being done right on the programming end to require such a recent computer to run this type of program.

Any thoughts?

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J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 2 2010 2:37 PM

Maybe you could post your computer specs so someone can help?

My Books in Logos & FREE Training

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BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 2 2010 2:46 PM

Hi Herbert,

Be aware that L4 is running on even netbooks, though folks don't crow about its performance on them.  But you're obviously aware that other posters have commented that L4 will use all the power you give it... and they've had a great time spec'ing out wonderful components for a dream system.

By far the most of us are between those two extremes.

So... Have you already installed Logos? Only considering it? Having problems? Why do you ask?

Grace & Peace,
Bill


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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 2 2010 3:02 PM

HerbertJRader:

I have a computer which I still use for video editing with Avid Liquid. Logos 4 will not work on this computer. How is it possible that the requirements for Logos 4 are greater than those of a professional video editing program? It seems like something is not being done right on the programming end to require such a recent computer to run this type of program.

Any thoughts?

Logos's philosophy has long been to build their product to expect and take advantage of a high-end computer so that they can push the envelope in terms of features and still be ahead of the curve with respect to their competitors years from now. I'm sure they could be more efficient with computing power even with all the great features and speed they've got. Sometimes expecting the highest end computer one possibly could just makes programmers lazy. On the other hand, it does take more time to develop faster software that will run well on less powerful machines, and I think Logos believes that their time and energy is better spent developing more features and bringing more resources out and getting them to us sooner rather than later.

Posts 186
Robert G. Mettler | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 2 2010 3:16 PM

 

Rosie Perera:
Logos's philosophy has long been to build their product to expect and take advantage of a high-end computer

 At the danger of making the product elitist. (Only for those that have state of the art equipment.)

Rosie Perera:
it does take more time to develop faster software that will run well on less powerful machines

And you might add more talent. So some of the criticism about Logos 4 is very well founded.

 

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 2 2010 3:28 PM

RobertGMettler:

At the danger of making the product elitist.

 

So? What's wrong with being elitist? You should read In Defense of Elitism by William A. Henry.Wink

There are plenty of free Bible software products available for those who don't have a machine that can handle Logos. Someone in another thread was recently recommending http://www.theword.gr. There's also ebible.com, etc. Being able to study the Bible in the original languages and do all kinds of cool things like morphology analysis charts and the like isn't for the masses.

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Terry Poperszky | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 2 2010 3:48 PM

Rosie Perera:
Being able to study the Bible in the original languages and do all kinds of cool things like morphology analysis charts and the like isn't for the masses.

Rosie, forgive me in advance, this is not meant to be a flame, but I am afraid your statement gives me pause. I seem to remember a time in Church history when people thought that the very Word of God wasn't for the masses.

 

With that said, if pushing the edge of computer hardware is elitist, then count me in. Over my lifetime I have bought several new bleeding edge hardware systems to be able to play the latest video game. Logos is not for everyone, why should it be? It is not a matter of elitist, it is a matter of preference and taste.

 

 

Posts 323
Doug | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 2 2010 4:08 PM

Rosie Perera:
Logos's philosophy has long been to build their product to expect and take advantage of a high-end computer so that they can push the envelope in terms of features and still be ahead of the curve with respect to their competitors years from now. I'm sure they could be more efficient with computing power even with all the great features and speed they've got. Sometimes expecting the highest end computer one possibly could just makes programmers lazy. On the other hand, it does take more time to develop faster software that will run well on less powerful machines, and I think Logos believes that their time and energy is better spent developing more features and bringing more resources out and getting them to us sooner rather than later.

While I do agree with you Rosie, I see Herbert's side of this issue too.  To be honest, I still don't think that L4 is very efficient.  I've heard it blamed on Microsoft's WPF, but like Herbert with video editing, I have very advanced audio editing software in my recording software that uses WPF and it doesn't experience the lags that L4 does even while it does (at least what I think is) much more on the processing end.  I love the advanced features of L4 but I also think it should be smoother and more efficient.  Let's not forget that L3 had much of the same features of L4 and it ran much more efficiently (with the possible exception of searching).  Also, let's not forget that Logos toughts this program as being powerful yet easy.  That suggests they want it to be usable by everyone.  It's not just for original language study (although that is probably my favorite thing to do with it). 

This was in no way meant to be a flame to you.  You've been helpful to me and to others on this thread and I appreciate that.  I'm just suggesting that we try to look at the other point of view too.  If L4 is to keep growing in features, it is important to get a handle on efficiency with the features it runs now.  We all now how bad the notes function performs.  It would be nice if it were cutting edge in all respects.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 2 2010 4:28 PM

Terry Poperszky:
I seem to remember a time in Church history when people thought that the very Word of God wasn't for the masses.

How old are you? that's impressive.Smile

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 2 2010 4:36 PM

Rosie Perera:
Logos's philosophy has long been to build their product to expect and take advantage of a high-end computer so that they can push the envelope in terms of features and still be ahead of the curve with respect to their competitors years from now

I haven't a clue as to what Logos' philosophy is. But in design, you first need to know what your users' expectations are - function, interface, and performance; then you need to know what equipment it takes to meet those expectations ...and be nimble enough to adjust to their changing expectations; then you have to play magician - balance expectations against hardware requirements and development costs. Any balance you hit will result in complaints -" I can't afford the equipment" to "why are you supporting such old <X> so that I can't have <Y>?" Until we see something resembling full functionality, I'm not going to judge Logos' decision on this balance.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Terry Poperszky | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 2 2010 4:54 PM

MJ. Smith:

Terry Poperszky:
I seem to remember a time in Church history when people thought that the very Word of God wasn't for the masses.

How old are you? that's impressive.Smile

Mental or physical age? The consensus of my peers is that they are not the same. Stick out tongue

 

 

Posts 352
Mike & Rachel Aubrey | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 2 2010 5:34 PM

Elitist?

I'm running L4 on a 7 year old machine with acceptable performance.

Posts 352
Mike & Rachel Aubrey | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 2 2010 5:35 PM

RobertGMettler:
And you might add more talent. So some of the criticism about Logos 4 is very well founded.

Cheap shot.

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steve clark | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 2 2010 5:40 PM

Rosie Perera:
Being able to study the Bible in the original languages and do all kinds of cool things like morphology analysis charts and the like isn't for the masses.

Caution sister. Logos has been advertising that with their new interface, they hope to reach the average person. Those who don't know Greek and Hebrew. Even their new Video series (still in pre-pub) is advertised even for those who don't know original languages.

i am guessing this was just a slip of passion. Terry's reply about the Church not wanting the common people to be able to read the Bible was exactly what i was thinking about when i read your post. Many died to bring us translations we common people could read. Please don't take this as an attack on you. It just seemed so uncharacteristic of what i have read in your other posts here on the forum.

Peace in Christ sister

 

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Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 2 2010 5:50 PM

Rosie Perera:
Being able to study the Bible in the original languages ... isn't for the masses.

 

I'm not sure why people are reacting to this. Surely studying the Bible in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek is not for the masses.

What's the problem....?

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 2 2010 5:52 PM

Terry and Douglas, I'm very sorry if I offended you. I did put a winky smiley in there, but I guess that didn't quite do the trick. Anyway, I sympathize with Herbert's complaints; was just trying to be light-hearted about it and forgot to include any corroboration of his general sense of frustration. Those of you who know my posts from other threads know that I share it. I'm sorry, Herbert, about being a bit flippant with someone I didn't know yet from other interactions on the Forum.

You are right, it is an awful lot of machine to expect for Bible study, even in-depth study that the "masses" might not be interested in. I wasn't meaning to defend their decision to target higher-end machines, I was just explaining that I know that's their philosophy from having heard it directly from Bob Pritchett.

And Terry, you've got to admit that morphology analysis charts are for total Bible geeks, not for Josephine average home Bible study leader. Even I haven't delved into them yet (they are new in 4.0a and I've been too busy answering questions on the Forum) and I've taken a year of Biblical Hebrew and am a total computer geek and have a pretty fast CPU. I'm not by any means suggesting that the Word of God and resources to aid in understanding it shouldn't be available to everyone. But some of the powerful stuff that Logos can do does require more computing power than every single faithful student of the Bible will necessarily have. Maybe they should sell it as a two-tiered product with a simplified version that isn't quite as power hungry for people who have the packages that are geared towards home study. But then there would need to be an upgrade path for that to the higher-powered version as well... Ah, so complicated.

Finally, to all, yes I think the Logos programmers could do better at making the product more efficient so it wouldn't require such mongo computing resources, but I have to be careful about slamming them here in this public forum because some of them are my friends... ;-)

Posts 236
Bruce Junkermann | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 2 2010 5:52 PM

Logos 4 is running just fine on my AMD Athalon 64 3500 984 MHz, 960 MB RAM, XP Media Center Edition V 2002, SP3.

Posts 1539
Terry Poperszky | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 2 2010 6:04 PM

Rosie Perera:
Terry and Douglas, I'm very sorry if I offended you

You did not offend me, shock me a little, but definitely not offend.

Rosie Perera:
And Terry, you've got to admit that morphology analysis charts are for total Bible geeks, not for Josephine average home Bible study le

Absolutely. But sometimes I think we expect too little from the masses. Big Smile I am no longer a pastor, God in his infinite mercy has seen fit to allow me to not participate in church leadership at all right now. Yet, I hold myself to the same standards of Study that I did when I was behind the pulpit (and before), and frankly it drives me crazy when my denomination treats it's members like children giving them a watered down lessons on the Word because they can't handle anything else.

 

 

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Terry Poperszky | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 2 2010 6:17 PM

Damian McGrath:

i'm not sure why people are reacting to this. Surely studying the Bible in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek is not for the masses.

What's the problem....?

Damian, it is a visceral reaction on my part. I can imagine ti coming from the mouth of a Pharisee, but for the life of my me I can't imagine ti coming from the lips of the Lord. I do not believe that it accurately represents Rosie's heart or beliefs (Based on the reading of her posts). I personally believe that the masses have much more potential, then many give them credit for.

 

 

 

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 2 2010 6:33 PM

Uh, anyone else notice that Herbert hasn't even answered the first question that was asked of him?

Herbert? You out there?

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

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