Question: When does checkout charge tax?

I wasn't sure the best forum in which to ask this. Since it deals with Logos and Vyrso online purchases, I'm posting it here.

I just purchased a book via Vyrso - https://vyrso.com/product/39450/perspectives-on-the-sabbath (publisher is B&H). I'm pretty sure this is the first time that I've been charged sales tax, either by Vyrso or Logos. I'm familiar with the general rules about online businesses charging sales tax. But the fact that I've never been charged tax before, and the fact that there's no indication if I purchase something from Logos right now (all the way up to the last step of checkout) that I will be taxed, implies that something isn't quite right.

So the questions are: a) Under what conditions is Logos and/or Vyrso supposed to charge sales tax? b) Is something not working properly right now such that I was charged it for this book from Vyrso but not for other books on Logos or Vyrso (at least in the past for Vyrso).

Thanks,

Donnie

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Comments

Matt Hamrick

My address has changed frequently over the last 5 years and I have lived in 4 different states. Some states require Logos to charge a tax and some states don't.

Matt

Donnie Hale

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608649#Comment_608649

My address has changed frequently over the last 5 years and I have lived in 4 different states. Some states require Logos to charge a tax and some states don't.

I mentioned that I understand these aspects of when an online business would typically have to charge tax. I also mentioned that Logos is not charging tax, while Vyrso did. I've been in the same state since I first started making Logos online resource purchases 5+ years ago.

Donnie

Donnie Hale

But the fact that I've never been charged tax before, and the fact that there's no indication if I purchase something from Logos right now (all the way up to the last step of checkout) that I will be taxed, implies that something isn't quite right.

Some more data that might be of interest...

Adding a different B&H book to my Vyrso cart showed that it would be taxed.
Adding a Baker book to my Vyrso cart (only book in the cart) showed a tax amount of $0.00.
Interestingly, Vyrso had a line item in the cart for tax amount even when the tax amount for the book was $0.00. Logos on the other hand doesn't have a line item for tax anywhere in its checkout process, even if the book being purchased is a B&H book.

Thus it seems that Logos would never charge tax, while Vyrso will under some conditions (e.g. B&H books for people in Ohio???).

I'd really like to understand those conditions, so I repeat my questions from the original post.

Thanks again,

Donnie

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608655#Comment_608655

I grew up in Massachusetts when the Blue Laws still ruled the state (stores closed on Sundays and such). My mother ran a Christian bookstore. One of those laws was that there was no tax on Bibles, as Bibles were considered a necessity of life (like clothing and food, which also were not taxed). There were other states that had that tax break on Bibles too (e.g., PA, GA, SC). I'm not sure any of them still have that.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608655#Comment_608655

Presuming all the clues are correct, it sounds like Ohio taxes by book title and which .COM.

Actually (and not likely related) but I bought a Vyrso this am. No email (saving big bucks?). And no download (to Vyrso). I'm guessing Vyrso's not sharing code with Logos (probably to save money).

Rich DeRuiter

So the questions are: a) Under what conditions is Logos and/or Vyrso supposed to charge sales tax? b) Is something not working properly right now such that I was charged it for this book from Vyrso but not for other books on Logos or Vyrso (at least in the past for Vyrso).

My guess is that you're supposed to be charged sales tax all the time, but you've discovered some circumstances where it doesn't happen.

Now the dilemma: Are you sure you want to bring this up and get it fixed?

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608730#Comment_608730

Some of the tax laws are based on whether or not the company has a physical presence in the state. I wonder if that plays into your experience at all.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608734#Comment_608734

Some of the tax laws are based on whether or not the company has a physical presence in the state.

Does B&H books have a retail outlet in Ohio?

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608734#Comment_608734

Some of the tax laws are based on whether or not the company has a physical presence in the state. I wonder if that plays into your experience at all.

I think that is the solution. While it's true that Logos has a presence in Azerona (deliberately misspelled), it may be that Denise was not charged tax since Vyrso is considered a separate entity which does not have a state presence.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608762#Comment_608762

No .... Denise started paying tax the minute the Mac coders arrived in Azerona on anything 'Logos'. Just today, after I dutifully payed my Vyrso tax, I then battled Logos for the book. And I won.

For a while, I paid tax on Logos but not Amazon. Logos couldn't threaten the Azerona legislature with only 5 coders. You have to have 6.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608784#Comment_608784

No .... Denise started paying tax the minute the Mac coders arrived in Azerona on anything 'Logos'. Just today, after I dutifully payed my Vyrso tax, I then battled Logos for the book. And I won.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgtQj8O92eI

Donnie Hale

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608734#Comment_608734

Some of the tax laws are based on whether or not the company has a physical presence in the state. I wonder if that plays into your experience at all.

This was one of the points I had in mind when I said I understood the issues under which an online business typically has to charge tax. I was trying to short-circuit all the usual reasons I'd expect it.

It now occurs to me that because B&H is very related to Lifeway (SBC, Lifeway in some ways is the new name for B&H), and because Lifeway has stores in Ohio, that could explain it.

Donnie

Phil Gons (Logos)

This is due to the agency model. In most cases (i.e, non-agency model), we charge sales tax when we have an employee in the state. With the agency model, we charge sales tax if the publisher has employees in the state.

http://www.ecpa.org/news/news.asp?id=54978

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88511

http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/blog/techflash/2010/04/amazon_to_publishers_set_own_ebook_prices_deal_with_sales_tax.html?page=all

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608901#Comment_608901

Ah, so this is why you can't discount books from certain publishers. It's not just an inserted paragraph in their contracts; it's an entirely different business model.

Ronald Quick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608924#Comment_608924

As customers we only see the surface. There is so much that goes on behind the curtain that guides and determines the decisions that are made by a business.

Donnie Hale

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608901#Comment_608901

This is due to the agency model. In most cases (i.e, non-agency model), we charge sales tax when we have an employee in the state. With the agency model, we charge sales tax if the publisher has employees in the state.

Thanks for the reply, Phil. That still leaves the question regarding the difference between Logos and Vyrso. Is Logos using non-agency and Vyrso using the agency model?

Thanks again,

Donnie

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/609281#Comment_609281

This is due to the agency model. In most cases (i.e, non-agency model), we charge sales tax when we have an employee in the state. With the agency model, we charge sales tax if the publisher has employees in the state.

Thanks for the reply, Phil. That still leaves the question regarding the difference between Logos and Vyrso. Is Logos using non-agency and Vyrso using the agency model?

Donnie, my understanding would be that the publishers decide which model they use / try to force on the reatiler (assumed such models are legal) - this can be different from contract to contract (we know that there are vastly different agreements between various publishers and also between books of the same publisher when they adress Vyrso or Logos) and also change over time.