Personal Book PBB size question

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Dudley Rose | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Aug 17 2014 11:11 AM

I am in the process of building a personal book (The Soncino translation of the Talmud, which is claimed to be in the PD: http://tzvee.blogspot.com/2011/09/golan-v-holder-copyright-and-soncino.html). In any case it is for my personal use, and I have purchased the Neusner Talmud (both of them) in Logos, so I'm not making the book to avoid a Logos offering. I mention the project simply as a context for my question.

The Soncino Babylonian Talmud consists of many thousands of pages in 6 Seders or books. Each Seder is composed of 12 or more Tractates and various preface, introductory and glossary material. Tractates may have as many as 800 pages. Each Tractate will be a DOCX file.

My question is two-fold. 1) Is there a limit to the size of a personal book? 2) If there is no file size limit for Personal Books, what would be the advantages and disadvantages of making it one large Personal Book over, say, making a book for each of the six Seders?

Thanks for any thoughts.

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Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 17 2014 12:28 PM

I don't know any specific limits and I have never seen anyone hit limits on this forum, but you will get to practical limits of how big it can get based on your computer power, and how long it takes to open and manipulate the document in Word (it paginates the file etc.), how long to save, and how long to compile. Keep in mind you can add multiple Word docs to one personal book build and it will "string them" together so to speak - making manipulation of the document easier. You can also break it up and use the Series tag in building the pb, which will allow Logos to pop between the volumes if there is an index being used (like verses of Bible).

My largest pb source is 35MB as it has lots of graphics. My largest number of pages is a 22MB file that is 866 pages. Others may certainly have bigger.

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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 17 2014 12:34 PM

Dudley C. Rose:
My question is two-fold. 1) Is there a limit to the size of a personal book? 2) If there is no file size limit for Personal Books, what would be the advantages and disadvantages of making it one large Personal Book over, say, making a book for each of the six Seders?

As has been stated there is no limits on the size right now. Be aware there have been and maybe still are discussions associated the size limitations. This is due to the long awaited syncing / sharing features Logos says we will have.

As for question 2, I cannot really speak to that because I have no large PB's. 

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 17 2014 12:46 PM

Hm. I think nobody ever crossed a limit on these.

Mark Barnes built a dictionary from 18,000 English language wikipedia articles. It has 25 Million words (several times the size of e.g. AYBD). The more than 40 docx files are zipped into a more than 100MB archive file. Even my weak old machine has no issues with it.

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

Posts 218
Dudley Rose | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 17 2014 12:58 PM

Thanks to you all. Very helpful. My inclination is to make a single book. There would be many DOCX files. It sounds as though it should be no problem at all. Again, thanks.

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GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 17 2014 3:06 PM

I hope you share them!  Smile

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 17 2014 3:43 PM

Dudley C. Rose:
My inclination is to make a single book.

That would be my inclination as well... However, <when> Logos begins to sync personal books, file size might be an issue. Just something to keep in the back of your mind if you are working with larger documents.

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 17 2014 4:17 PM

alabama24:

Dudley C. Rose:
My inclination is to make a single book.   {{There would be many DOCX files.}}    

(...) file size might be an issue. Just something to keep in the back of your mind if you are working with larger documents.

But if there is a reasonable split of the multi docx files the current single book can easily be split into several - if and when needed.

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Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 19 2014 7:18 AM

David Ames:

alabama24:

Dudley C. Rose:
My inclination is to make a single book.   {{There would be many DOCX files.}}    

(...) file size might be an issue. Just something to keep in the back of your mind if you are working with larger documents.

But if there is a reasonable split of the multi docx files the current single book can easily be split into several - if and when needed.

Right.  Keep you docs files.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 19 2014 7:43 AM

Dudley C. Rose:
My question is two-fold. 1) Is there a limit to the size of a personal book? 2) If there is no file size limit for Personal Books, what would be the advantages and disadvantages of making it one large Personal Book over, say, making a book for each of the six Seders?

The biggest disadvantage of splitting a personal book into individual volumes is that you can't create links between personal books.

But there's no practical limit to the size of a Personal Book that I could find. That is, you'll hit the limit in Word long before you hit it in Logos.

I think I'm right in saying that I've produced the two biggest personal books available. My John MacArthur sermon collection and Encylopaedia of Christianity and the Bible both weigh in at 25 million words each. I was seriously impressed with the way Logos handled them.

They both got very unwieldy in MS Word, so I split them into multiple Word documents, but I included all the Word documents into one Personal Book. That gives the best of both worlds, as having them all in one Logos book allows you to create internal links between the various word documents.

The only additional advice I would give would be to try and limit the size of individual articles within the resource (an article begins at a Heading style in Word). If you have lengthy articles then performance can be slow. That shouldn't be a problem in a Talmud, but just make sure you're using Word's Heading styles for the headings (you should do this to create the TOC anyway).

This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!

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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 19 2014 8:43 AM

I have the 11th edition of the encyclopedia britanica in logos as a personal book. Its by far my biggest pb (even bigger than macarthur in terms of the size it requires on my hard drive) and Logos does well with it.

L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, L9

Posts 218
Dudley Rose | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 19 2014 9:29 AM

Mark Barnes:

The biggest disadvantage of splitting a personal book into individual volumes is that you can't create links between personal books.

But there's no practical limit to the size of a Personal Book that I could find. That is, you'll hit the limit in Word long before you hit it in Logos.

Mark, thank you. All very helpful advice. I have one question on using multiple DOCX files. I've been using Word's hyperlinking feature to link to locations within a DOCX file, for example, a word or phrase in a Glossary entry that refers back to another entry. In Logos I get a link and a popup, exactly what I want. I'm not sure if there's a better way to create such links, though. If it is, I'm unsure how to create links between DOCX files, for example an entry in a tractate that refers to a location in another tractate that is in a different DOCX file. I hope that's clear.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 19 2014 10:01 AM

Dudley C. Rose:
I'm unsure how to create links between DOCX files, for example an entry in a tractate that refers to a location in another tractate that is in a different DOCX file

You can't use Word's hyperlink feature to link between .docx files. Instead, you have to use Logos' PB syntax. You'll need to use different link types depending on the type of content you're linking to. For example, for glossary entries you should use headwords. For links to particular folios you should use one of the Talmud datatypes.

Feel free to follow up if that doesn't make sense or if you need more help.

This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!

Posts 218
Dudley Rose | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 19 2014 7:17 PM

Mark Barnes:

For links to particular folios you should use one of the Talmud datatypes. 

If I put a Babylonian Talmud datatype milestone in the document

[[@babtalmudfolio:Berachoth 2a]],

it shows in the index beautifully. However, if I reference it with a datatype link

[[babtalmudfolio:Berachoth 2a]] or [[Berachoth 2a >> babtalmudfolio:Berachoth 2a]],

it opens the Neusner translation rather than going to the location in my document. I'm pretty new at the finer points of Personal Books, so I'm sure I've misunderstood something.

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 19 2014 8:19 PM

Mark Barnes:

Dudley C. Rose:
I'm unsure how to create links between DOCX files, for example an entry in a tractate that refers to a location in another tractate that is in a different DOCX file

You can't use Word's hyperlink feature to link between .docx files. Instead, you have to use Logos' PB syntax. You'll need to use different link types depending on the type of content you're linking to. For example, for glossary entries you should use headwords. For links to particular folios you should use one of the Talmud datatypes.

Feel free to follow up if that doesn't make sense or if you need more help.

Mark: I assume that if we ever have to create separate PBB from each DOCX rather then loading them into one PBB we will lose the links between them. [this thread is about the size of a PBB so I assume that we need to discuss what will need to be done if we need to reduce the size of a PBB by breaking it into smaller parts by compiling each DOCX independently of the others] 

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 20 2014 1:04 AM

 

Dudley C. Rose:

Mark Barnes:

For links to particular folios you should use one of the Talmud datatypes. 

If I put a Babylonian Talmud datatype milestone in the document

[[@babtalmudfolio:Berachoth 2a]],

it shows in the index beautifully. However, if I reference it with a datatype link

[[babtalmudfolio:Berachoth 2a]] or [[Berachoth 2a >> babtalmudfolio:Berachoth 2a]],

it opens the Neusner translation rather than going to the location in my document. I'm pretty new at the finer points of Personal Books, so I'm sure I've misunderstood something.

Maybe Mark will have a better answer but to me (not currently at my Logos PC) this looks like "works as intended": referencing the datatype asks Logos to open the most high prioritized resource you own that has this datatype - in your case Neusner. If you want to open your own edition, you need to prioritize it above Neusner.

Note: It will then open for every request of a Talmud datatype you include, also from other resources. If you want to prevent that, you may use Advanced Prioritization so that only datatype links coming from your resource will be directed to it.  

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

Posts 13428
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 20 2014 3:38 AM

David Ames:
I assume that if we ever have to create separate PBB from each DOCX rather then loading them into one PBB we will lose the links between them.

Let me clarify the generalisations I made earlier which might help you and Dudley. Despite what I said, it is possible to link from one personal book to the other, it's just not a good idea. The problem is that PBs are assigned a random unique identifier. This ID is assigned when you click Add book in the Personal Books tool. If you know the ID, you can link to the personal book — but the problem is that if I create the two books on my installation, then I'll get a different ID.

So if you really want to link from one book to another, you'd have to create the two books in the PB tool before adding any links between them. So long as you never delete those PBs from your Personal Books tool, everything should be fine (recompiling them is fine too). But if you ever share those .docx files with others, they'd need to replace all your IDs with their IDs.

So, for personal use, if you're careful never to delete your PB, you can get away with linking between PBs.

This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 20 2014 3:46 AM

Dudley C. Rose:
it opens the Neusner translation rather than going to the location in my document. I'm pretty new at the finer points of Personal Books, so I'm sure I've misunderstood something.

No, this is working as expected, as N.B. Mick says. The same thing happens, for example, in cross references in Bibles. If I have the NIV as Bible #2 in my prioritisation list, and I click on any Bible links within that book, it will open Bible #1, rather than move within the NIV.

To stop this happening, you can use advance prioritisation to ensure that links within your PB only open to your PB. Here's my advanced prioritisation for my NIV:

You'll need to do something similar for your PB, and apply this prioritisation above any other resources that use the babtalmudfolio datatype.

If you want a solution that doesn't require changing prioritisation, then you have to use a page number datatype link, as these always open in the current resource. You'd add 'fake' page numbers at every point you wanted to link to, and then link to those. This was the solution I chose for my two PBs (so each MacArthur sermon or encylopaedia article is on a new 'page'), but you may find it less suitable for your needs.

This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!

Posts 218
Dudley Rose | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 20 2014 12:53 PM

Mark Barnes:

No, this is working as expected, as N.B. Mick says. 

Mark and Nick, thanks. Very helpful. My plan is to use the headings for navigation to start with. When I begin to add the datatypes, I think I'll try to make lemonade out of the lemons. Since I have other Talmuds that have the same datatypes, I'll just plan to use one of them and my Soncino one as a link set. That way I will have two translations going side by side, which should prove useful. 

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