Logos has overtaken Accordance for good

Page 7 of 8 (154 items) « First ... < Previous 4 5 6 7 8 Next >
This post has 153 Replies | 18 Followers

Posts 1728
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 19 2016 5:16 PM

I think it would be very easy for Accordance or even Olive Tree to overtake and surpass Logos.  Just develop a fast easy intuitive menu and simplify basic search capability - combined with lower cost books.

I do hope Logos wins but I do not find it that much of an improvement really.  Many times I abandon the use of Logos and look for something far faster on the regular internet.

7.x should be overhauled, simplified, and tailored for real world use.

Posts 3701
Forum MVP
PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 19 2016 5:41 PM

JoshInRI:

I think it would be very easy for Accordance or even Olive Tree to overtake and surpass Logos.  Just develop a fast easy intuitive menu and simplify basic search capability - combined with lower cost books.

I do hope Logos wins but I do not find it that much of an improvement really.  Many times I abandon the use of Logos and look for something far faster on the regular internet.

7.x should be overhauled, simplified, and tailored for real world use.

I used Olive Tree, and after trying out Logos, I felt that Logos was light years ahead of Olive Tree, and never went back. I don't miss Olive Tree.

I understand that you're not happy with the (speed, ease of use, or) complexity of Logos, but there are many different real world uses for the program, from personal study to sermon prep to academic research.

"Simplifying" the program, and tailoring it to some narrow use, would "cripple" the program and make it less useful for others in general. The more flexible option is to understand how to use the program's tools and features to meet a specific need for that time.

Does it have a steep learning curve? Yes. But it's better for us to learn how to use it, than for the program to be dumbed down. Less features, power, or complexity isn't necessarily better, and there will come a day when you are glad it is as complex and powerful as it is.

My top three Logos 9 Wishlist items: Carta, Dark mode, and Hebrew audio bible, please.

Posts 29097
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 19 2016 6:26 PM

JoshInRI:
7.x should be overhauled, simplified, and tailored for real world use.

The problem is that users as a whole belong to many different "real worlds" ...no single "bubble" represents common, "real world" use. With assistance on building a common layout, small groups in my "bubble" have no problems using Logos in the basic ways needed in the small group. I understand that you do not believe that to be true for your small groups but fail to understand the issue with the proposed solutions.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1469
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 19 2016 6:51 PM

Denise:

Answering specific questions:

- I have Carta on Accordance (all digital). I can't imagine using hardcopy ... too slow and heavy.

- I'm not a good source for Bible > atlas.  I mainly use relative to time (both are tightly bound to time, so it's easy to match up).  Both have detailed side-bar TOC's to quickly move from event to event. So, if I'm watching Neco headed north in Kings, it's easy to find him ... not like Logos where you have to search, etc.

- Don't know how maps are tagged, but the TOC's are far faster.  You can even arrow-key the maps across time quickly.

- I included SB sample and Macmillan sample below. I'd get SB long before Macmillan. It really an 'atlas commentary' ... lots of good info.

Sorry I couldn't answer the Bible > atlas connect, though it's not so critical as is in Logos. Below are Necco's foibles (included some Jehoiakim to show text discussion).

Sacred Bridge:

Macmillan Sample:

Denise, thank you for the samples--they really are helpful.  I definitely like the style of the TSB maps better than the Macmillan Atlas, and from what I've been able to determine so far, it's one of the most highly respected atlas resources available.  On the other hand, I'll probably look a little more at the new Carta Bible Atlas which is now in it's fifth addition and as I understand it, replaced the old Macmillan version.  If that's the case, I wonder if the maps have been spiffed up a bit in it to look more like those in TSB vs. the Macmillan Atlas.  Problem is, I haven't been able to determine that yet.

I'm also going to look into "Carta's New Century Handbook and Atlas of the Bible", which is marketed as a concise version of The Sacred Bridge.  But as with the new Carta Bible Atlas, the problem is finding samples of the content.

Thanks again though.  You've been a great help.  Smile

Posts 10953
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 19 2016 7:58 PM

Rick ... please keep in mind what I'm calling 'Macmillan' is Carta Bible Atlas ... the samples above were 4th ed. I'm sure the 5th ed has changes (!) but I compared the same section and TOC that Accordance shows for the 5th. Maps are the same monochrome and same text.  I doubt they fancied it up much.

Accordance 5th (desktop):

Accordance 4th (my copy on Accordance iPad ... the thumbnail pops to large as above):

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 1041
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 20 2016 6:02 AM

PetahChristian:
7.x should be overhauled, simplified, and tailored for real world use.

I have the impression that 7 represents quite a big overhaul which happened from 6 onwards. I'm using the same laptop with no upgrades and Logos feels faster. Custom default layouts which load from the home screen search make it feel more comfortable and lean than ever. The results I get and the resources which it draws upon are all based on preferences I have developed over years of study - it's really quite a delight to use!

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 1469
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 20 2016 6:57 AM

Denise:

Rick ... please keep in mind what I'm calling 'Macmillan' is Carta Bible Atlas ... the samples above were 4th ed. I'm sure the 5th ed has changes (!) but I compared the same section and TOC that Accordance shows for the 5th. Maps are the same monochrome and same text.  I doubt they fancied it up much.

Ahhh!  Thank you so much for the heads-up.  I expect your spot on, so I guess now I only need to see if I can determine what the differences are between Carta's New Century Handbook and Atlas of the Bible and TSB.  Since I'm a lay-person vs. a scholar, academic, or minister, I'm guessing I'd be OK with the New Century Handbook and Atlas of the Bible, as I read one review that indicated most of the things left out of this concise version of TSB would probably not be missed by the laity.  So provided the maps are the same as in TSB (vs the Carta Bible Atlas) and are as easily referenced via Accordance as TSB, and Carta didn't gut the textual content too severely, that might be a good option for me, as the concise version is about half the price of TSB.  I suppose I should clarify I'm hoping that in Accordance, simply hovering over or clicking on a location in a scripture passage will bring up Carta map options related to the location.  But even if that's not the case, I'm hoping it will be an easier process than with Logos.

I sure wish the map resources in Logos were easier to use in this regard and that Faithlife would offer the Carta resources in Logos.  The main reason for wanting to hold my spending down in Accordance, is the hope that this will eventually be addressed in Logos.

Posts 10953
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 20 2016 7:43 AM

Well, apologies to Logos for so much Carta checking, but if Carta were in Logos!  I suspect Carta has an exclusive with Accordance. 

Rick, you REALLY should check how many pennies are in your piggybank. I agree with Veli ... the value of SC is in the text.

I did try to figure out New Century. Looks like they used SC's maps (all?, most?, many?). And re-wrote the text.  The new text indeed looks like a step between SC and Macmillan, and not too bad. I made copies below: New Century, SC, and Macmillan ... battle of Gideon.

New Century( desktop view):

Sacred Bridge (iPad view; map thumbnail matches New Century)

Macmillan (Carta Bible Atlas; iPad view):

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 5286
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 21 2016 9:33 AM

Denise:
 I suspect Carta has an exclusive with Accordance. 

I was fairly sure that it was pointed out at one point by an Accordance employee at one point that while they are the only ones with it currently it was not an exclusive thing.

-Dan

Posts 1537
Forum MVP
Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 21 2016 9:40 AM

Dan Francis:

Denise:
 I suspect Carta has an exclusive with Accordance. 

I was fairly sure that it was pointed out at one point by an Accordance employee at one point that while they are the only ones with it currently it was not an exclusive thing.

-Dan 

Yes

Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 8.1

Posts 80
Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 26 2016 9:28 AM

After reading this thread, I am tempted to go to the other vendor for Sacred Bridge. Please talk me out of this: are there resources within Logos that are as good as Carta's maps? Is Carta really superior to Zondervan or Moody or Rose atlases?  I don't really want to add another software onto my laptop. But if Sacred Bridge is so good and no atlas in Logos is as good, I may pull the trigger.  If I could not resist the temptation, which of the new packages in the other system should I get together with Sacred Bridge?  Or should I keep hoping that Sacred Bridge will come to Logos?

Posts 7260
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 26 2016 10:18 AM

I may pull the trigger on the Carta and Sacred resources, but maybe some time in the future. I've been checking out samples and may go for a trial first. These are great resources to have and I'm just as stupefied as others are that Logos hasn't worked out a deal to bring these resources to their platform. Of course, that doesn't guarantee that the quality will be there, but that's another story.  I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

DAL

Posts 5286
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 26 2016 11:41 AM

Paul Lee:
should I get together with Sacred Bridge?  Or should I keep hoping that Sacred Bridge will come to Logos?

There is no equal to Sacred Bridge. Accordance is fast and great program to use to supplement Logos.  Go and download the free lite version to try it out and if you like it grab Sacred bridge.

-Dan

Posts 2842
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 26 2016 2:38 PM

None of the new features of Logos 7 have made any real difference to me.  I did upgrade for the books in the package.  I took Logos now only for the discount it gave me.

I would have been much more impressed with more intuitive searching and increased speed.  For me, anything else is fluff.

But I am not the target customers.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 1728
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 26 2016 3:03 PM

Mr. Childs apparently none of us are Smile

I think a massive overhaul and simplification of the interface and gearing it toward beginners and intermediate users (instead of original language scholars) is more in order.  Logos developers - God bless them all sincerely - seem to have their head in the clouds and are not thinking revamp, simplify, and improve.

Posts 29097
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 26 2016 3:16 PM

JoshInRI:
gearing it toward beginners and intermediate users

This is, in my mind, what the interactives do. But the publishers and resources provided through Logos imply that the perceived market is not the average pew-warmer but is the active volunteer/self-motivated student and up. Some of the free or nearly free programs fit the needs of the average pew-warmer.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 5286
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 26 2016 3:16 PM

Well apparently tighter integration into cloud and features that are online only seem to be the way FL wants to go but these things are opposite of my wishes, I am not who they are aiming at either I guess..

-Dan

Posts 29097
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 26 2016 3:22 PM

Dan Francis:
Well apparently tighter integration into cloud and features that are online only seem to be the way FL wants to go but these things are opposite of my wishes

I agree with you Dan. However, I have sympathy for Logos in that users seem to want the speed and features of searches et. al. that can only be supported on server banks ... and then they want them to run locally ... "ain't going to happen" - either accept the cloud or lower expectations.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 5286
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 26 2016 4:13 PM

MJ. Smith:

Dan Francis:
Well apparently tighter integration into cloud and features that are online only seem to be the way FL wants to go but these things are opposite of my wishes

I agree with you Dan. However, I have sympathy for Logos in that users seem to want the speed and features of searches et. al. that can only be supported on server banks ... and then they want them to run locally ... "ain't going to happen" - either accept the cloud or lower expectations.

For me the Atlas is a great example. Getting a bit back more on topic Accordances maps draw fast and are generated on the local computer, FL maps are off on a server and take several seconds to generate locally (this may be partially due to my slower internet) but this also means that i virtually ignore FL maps. I have in fact lowered my expectations several times... I am always grateful for improvements but often times it feels like the windows that removed the desktop and such... This is a great new feature... No not for me (never was a windows user but had many friends complaining and even downgrading) but it feels forced because that is the way the programers wanted to go. I am very thankful that passage guides and things like that that i use daily have not been moved off machine but as Bob has said he will not make any such promises about what will be left to our machines because he doesn't know the future (paraphrased of course)... But that said he lays the groundwork and prepares for the future direction of FL apps. For me FL apps become less and less ideal... that said my library investment means unless there was some way to transfer all my books to Accordance (i.e. new law demanding compatibility between platforms... this seems to be more something that would happen due to ereaders but can see how other proprietary software like Bible software could get caught up in such a law). I do not mean to imply I am deeply dissatisfied in anyway with Verbum 7.... just it floats further from my ideal, but I can live with it for now.

-Dan

Posts 3701
Forum MVP
PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 26 2016 4:17 PM

JoshInRI:

Mr. Childs apparently none of us are Smile

I think a massive overhaul and simplification of the interface and gearing it toward beginners and intermediate users (instead of original language scholars) is more in order.

If Logos is too complex or sophisticated, please exchange it for a simpler program that does less. Otherwise, rise to the occasion, educate yourself, and discover what it can do, instead of asking that the developers dumb it down.

JoshInRI:

Logos developers - God bless them all sincerely - seem to have their head in the clouds and are not thinking revamp, simplify, and improve.

Have you ever worked as a software developer?

You could take some time off from your current studies, design and create a bible study program to do exactly what you want, and the only person that might be truly happy with it is you. Now try to write it so 10, or 100, or 1000 of your fellow bible study participants would be happy with it. Congratulations, you've got a hit on your hands. Enjoy your market share, new career and 5-star reviews.

Sadly, Josh, there will always be one person who gives your amazing program a 1-star review, and complains about how your program is out of touch with anyone's needs, is too complex, etc.

The software developers at Logos do a really great job. It's not easy to release new versions, and add or improve features, every few weeks.

My top three Logos 9 Wishlist items: Carta, Dark mode, and Hebrew audio bible, please.

Page 7 of 8 (154 items) « First ... < Previous 4 5 6 7 8 Next > | RSS