Massive update question

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Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Oct 21 2014 9:43 PM

Can someone better explain this to me, what it is, what it does, why we would want it?
It sounds like something no one wants and will slow down the program even more, are these things true?

I really cant have anything else installed in Logos that makes it harder to run, can I opt out and still get my resource updates, new resources?

Verbum/Logos on both Mac and iOS struggle a good bit for me and I was hoping things would get reduced overhead rather than higher.

Further info is appreciated, the few posts I have seen have me pretty concerned.

Thanks to all.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 21 2014 10:50 PM

Fr. Charles R. Matheny:

Can someone better explain this to me, what it is, what it does, why we would want it?
It sounds like something no one wants and will slow down the program even more, are these things true?

I really cant have anything else installed in Logos that makes it harder to run, can I opt out and still get my resource updates, new resources?

Verbum/Logos on both Mac and iOS struggle a good bit for me and I was hoping things would get reduced overhead rather than higher.

Further info is appreciated, the few posts I have seen have me pretty concerned.

Thanks to all.

1. It is additional tagging to make words, phrases, clauses etc. more easily identified - primarily in support of smart selection, a feature that has been in Logos for a release or two. It's most obvious use is for selection on touch screens.

2. Have you noticed certain resources noticeably slowing your machine down? If so, are those the resources that already have the smart select coding in them? If not, then its not going to slow you down. I've noticed no slowdown although I usually keep the feature turned off on my desktop or laptop.

3. Because additional tagging can change the character position of indexed items, it is NEVER safe to assume that you can opt out of an update. Furthermore, because Faithlife can assume that you have the data, they will feel free to build other features off the data which could leave you in a real pickle.

4. I haven't run comparison tests but the changes in the resources may have no measurable effect on performance. After all the functions have been included in your overhead long before this update.

The ONLY thing unusual about this update is that Logos decided that it was less disruptive for the user to get one huge update rather than 3-5 large updates so that the indexing hit could be taken all at once and we as users could decide when to let that indexing occur.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 21 2014 10:56 PM

You should have received an email from Faithlife but you can read about it in the Logos Blog.

There is no choice about it and most of your resources will be updated from late on 26 October.

You can download to one installation and then use the scan command to get the resources into your other installations e.g. copy the resource folder to an external drive and scan from that drive.

Fr. Charles R. Matheny:
It sounds like something no one wants and will slow down the program even more, are these things true?

Many people will have problems with their download limit and/or the speed of their connection, so it is understandable that they don't welcome it and I haven't seen a viable alternative from Faithlife, but the updated resources will not slow the program nor any of your searches.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

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Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 22 2014 6:00 AM

Thank you MJ and David.

There is not much point in listing what does not work well, don't want to get flamed etc. Logos is just the poorest running program most have and thats been covered many times in many ways so, I'm just concerned about even more overhead.

I keep every feature I can turned off until i really need that feature badly and then use it, get it back off.
Many thread concerning people doing this, everyone finds ways to manage overhead unless they have the newest/fastest etc.

Faith life question: I use Logos/Verbum, would like to add the Orthodox but, I don't have any idea what Faith-life has to do with my installs , perhaps there is overlap i'm not aware of?

Last question for now: Is Bob trying to get everything cloud based?
If so I need to know so I can make other plans for the future.
Currently I can work without being online , I really do not wish to be cloud "dependent " , if that makes any sense.

Thanks again for the excellent explanations.

Grace and Peace,

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 22 2014 6:18 AM

Fr. Charles R. Matheny:
Last question for now: Is Bob trying to get everything cloud based?

No one knows the future, but Bob has said that they do not intend to go in this direction.

Lynden Williams Communications https://www.lyndenwilliams.net 

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Fr. Charles R. Matheny | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 22 2014 6:23 AM

Thank you Lynden.

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Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 22 2014 6:35 AM

I would see that as the most extremely unlikely move and the most extreme precaution ever and if it would ever happen it would be at least a decade from now I guess:

Fr. Charles R. Matheny:
Last question for now: Is Bob trying to get everything cloud based?

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 22 2014 7:14 AM

I don't think the massive update can be cast as a slower-downer, nor cloud-based-y.  Indeed if I were the designer (and thank goodness that's not the case), the tagging they're doing, would fit well into an expanded and (far) more powerful search facility.  I don't know if that's the case, but if I were the decision maker at Logos, a grit-your-teeth full-on download would be justified in that situation (ignoring the highlight functionality which is penny-ante).

For me in this specific case, and those who get dumped on heavy CP shipments, it's just poor management.

They know very well some are download-constrained ... it's a worldwide piece of software.  And similarly they know many use CPs to overcome wealth-constraints.  They're fully capable of spreading out the pain if they wanted; they don't.

Of course there's the Logos6 rollout; getting this done days before the Novemeber announcement makes sense.

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mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 22 2014 5:51 PM

Will this increase the file sizes of what we have already. I'm only concerned about one machine that has a 128gb ssd.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 22 2014 6:00 PM

mab:
Will this increase the file sizes of what we have already.

presumably. 

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mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 22 2014 6:17 PM

alabama24:
presumably. 

Did some drive cleaning before which got me back nearly 2GB. I'll have another look. I'm sure there's enough room, but Logos is priority one for me.

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 22 2014 6:31 PM

How much space do you have available currently?

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mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 22 2014 9:02 PM

alabama24:

How much space do you have available currently?

About 17GB free

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 23 2014 5:02 AM

mab:
About 17GB free

Based on a comment that Dave made, I don't think you have enough storage available.

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mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 23 2014 10:08 PM

I did some more house cleaning and pushed it to 21gb. I suspect that's tight, and I am trying to free up more space. 

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 24 2014 5:03 AM

There is another thread floating around that says expect to download about 75% of the size of your resources folder; or at worst resources folder size minus 1gb-2.5gb.

for me that is between 15 and 20gb.

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Gary Butner, Th.D. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 26 2014 9:23 PM

I enter update resources, and Logos is downloading 20 to 32 MB per entry, and then  restart.

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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 26 2014 10:07 PM

yeah, when it comes its going to be substantial.

Someone said as much as 75% of your resource folder size.

I would expect multiple gigabytes, not just a few mb.

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Harry Hahne | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 26 2014 10:07 PM

abondservant:
There is another thread floating around that says expect to download about 75% of the size of your resources folder; or at worst resources folder size minus 1gb-2.5gb.

Will this space be freed up after the update and indexing is complete?

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abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 26 2014 10:14 PM

Harry Hahne:

abondservant:
There is another thread floating around that says expect to download about 75% of the size of your resources folder; or at worst resources folder size minus 1gb-2.5gb.

Will this space be freed up after the update and indexing is complete?



My guess would be mostly.

Anytime they update things they are either fixing, or adding data. My understanding here is that they are adding new fields to the database and thus the newly updated resources should be larger. How much I don't know. However hard drive space is relatively cheap. 1tb drives for 69$, and 250gb ssds for around a hundred (if not less expensive by now).

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