New Feature: Propositional Outlines

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Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 9:30 AM

Fredc:

Peter Lever:

Does this not work for Old Testament? It does not work in my ESV or NKJV for any Old Testament Passage

As Graham noted it is for the NT only. During the beta testing there was a focus on getting the NT done, but Logos did indicate they were considering expanding this feature to the OT at some point in the future. No promises were made regarding the expansion of the feature, nor was any timeline indicated.

We'd like very much to do this same analysis for the OT, but that depends in part on how the feature is received by users. This kind of manual analysis is very time-intensive: I estimate our curators spent at least five person-months of effort on the NT. So if you find it helpful, speak up.

Posts 1639
Allen Browne | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 6:23 PM

Sean Boisen:
We'd like very much to do this same analysis for the OT, but that depends in part on how the feature is received by users. This kind of manual analysis is very time-intensive: I estimate our curators spent at least five person-months of effort on the NT. So if you find it helpful, speak up.

At a quick glance, this looks it has the potential to be one of the most significant new features in L6.

After perusing how it works with a couple of different genres in the NT, I went to try it out in the OT and discovered it wasn't there yet. It would be fascinating to see how you guys would handle Hebrew parallelism. :-)

Posts 269
Stein Dahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 6:43 PM

I LIKE IT ! ! ! 

I've been looking at and playing with the Propositional Outline Visual Filter today after doing the Extended Crossgrade - and I can say that this could be an invaluable tool for quickly getting at the heart of what's being said in the passage in a visual way. 

This would truly be an awesome thing to be able to use throughout the entire Bible. Sure would like to see it available for the OT too.

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John Kight | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 6:46 PM

Just wanted to report that everything worked fine after the download and index were complete. Also, an OT propositional outline would be a welcomed addition!!

For book reviews and more visit sojotheo.com 

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 6:48 PM

Allen Browne:
It would be fascinating to see how you guys would handle Hebrew parallelism. :-)

It isn't the same tool, but do check out the Interactive Psalms tool which does offer a structural analysis of the Psalms.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 269
Stein Dahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 28 2014 7:01 PM

I was playing around with the Interactive Psalms Explorer and that is so cool. A visual way of discovering just what you're looking for.

This tool would also be very useful if it could be expanded to the entire Bible. Not sure if that;'s even possible - but I can hope!  :)

Posts 1639
Allen Browne | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 29 2014 12:23 AM

Mark Smith:
It isn't the same tool, but do check out the Interactive Psalms tool which does offer a structural analysis of the Psalms.

Thanks, Mark.

Psalms Explorer looks fascinating. Love the Overview mode! It's a great way to graphically show the balance of genres etc--something that's not easy to do in a collection as large as Psalms. I'll certainly use this tool when teaching Psalms next year.

Detail mode wasn't quite as intuitive for me, e.g. a) I didn't quite follow the coding for parallelism. b) The Go To box didn't always work as expected (e.g. if I type in Psa 89). c) Right-clicking and choosing Copy didn't give me a useful result when I pasted into MS Word. Hebrew alongside English was nice.

Posts 1838
mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 29 2014 7:36 AM

Sean Boisen:

We'd like very much to do this same analysis for the OT, but that depends in part on how the feature is received by users. This kind of manual analysis is very time-intensive: I estimate our curators spent at least five person-months of effort on the NT. So if you find it helpful, speak up.

I find it very useful! Please continue the OT!

Posts 52
Sam Choi | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 29 2014 8:01 AM

Does anyone know who created this? So far, it seems right on. 

Was it Steven Runge? If so, that is amazing! 

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 29 2014 8:30 AM

Sam Choi:
Does anyone know who created this?

The bibliographic citation for the Psalms Explorer says Witthoff, David, Kristopher A. Lyle, and Matt Nerdhal. Psalms Form and Structure. Edited by Eli Evans. Bellingham, WA: Faithlife, 2014.

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Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 29 2014 8:35 AM

There's another thread devoted to the Psalms Explorer: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/92646.aspx. I'd love to continue this helpful conversation over there, and keep this thread focused on the Propositional Outlines.

Posts 113
LogosEmployee

Sam Choi:

Does anyone know who created this? So far, it seems right on. 

Was it Steven Runge? If so, that is amazing! 

Sam: 

If you were referring to the propositional outlines, most of the work was done by Mark Keaton. I did some work at the end of the project to make sure it was all ready for Logos 6. Glad to see all of the positive feedback so far. If any questions come up about the data, I'll be following the thread and glad to answer them.

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Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 29 2014 8:39 AM

Mark Barnes:

Sam Choi:
Does anyone know who created this?

The bibliographic citation says Witthoff, David, Kristopher A. Lyle, and Matt Nerdhal. Psalms Form and Structure. Edited by Eli Evans. Bellingham, WA: Faithlife, 2014.

That is, if "this" is the Psalms Explorer.

If you mean the Propositional Outlines, most of the analysis was done by Mark Keaton, until recently one of our curators in Content Innovation. Jeremy Thompson has since picked up the work (and did several books of the Bible). Mark and Jeremy were both primary contributors (along with David Witthoff) to the Bible Sense Lexicon, so they've had significant experience in categorizing the semantic functions of the text.

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Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 29 2014 8:40 AM

Oops, Jeremy beat me to it!

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Aaaaaand ... it looks like Sean and I have been typing at the same time.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 29 2014 8:45 AM

Allen Browne:
Detail mode wasn't quite as intuitive for me, e.g. a) I didn't quite follow the coding for parallelism. b) The Go To box didn't always work as expected (e.g. if I type in Psa 89). c) Right-clicking and choosing Copy didn't give me a useful result when I pasted into MS Word. Hebrew alongside English was nice.

I had some confusion at first, as well. The coding appears as a pop-up, but an introduction explaining the coding would be nice.

I don't get a right click menu on this tool at all. Not sure how Logos would export this, but being able to print would be nice. Anyone at Logos reading this?

Not as helpful, but still valuable is the Proverbs Interactive. I especially like that they have tried to organize the book by theme or topic, so that should one wish to study just one theme in Proverbs, they now have an easy way to do so. Unfortunately as in Psalms, there is no export or print capability nor is a way to add results to a Passage List. This hinders the tool's usefulness and I hope Logos will add at least that last-named last feature.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

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Levi Durfey | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 29 2014 10:43 AM

Sean Boisen:
We'd like very much to do this same analysis for the OT, but that depends in part on how the feature is received by users. This kind of manual analysis is very time-intensive: I estimate our curators spent at least five person-months of effort on the NT. So if you find it helpful, speak up.

I just would like to echo my thanks also for this feature (this and inline search are two of my favorites so far in Logos 6), and I would love to see it come to the Old Testament.

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Rick Brannan (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 29 2014 11:04 AM

Mark Smith:
The coding appears as a pop-up, but an introduction explaining the coding would be nice.

I'm assuming this is in reference to the parallelism annotation the Psalms Explorer.

The bottom left corner of the Psalms Explorer has an "About & Bibliography" link.

There are some more details on the terminology there, as well as other sources to follow up on. Regarding parallelism stuff, Adele Berlin's article "Parallelism" in Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary has some more information (vol 5 pp. 155-161).

Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 29 2014 11:12 AM

Rick Brannan (Faithlife):
I'm assuming this is in reference to the parallelism annotation the Psalms Explorer.

Yes we stole this thread for awhile.

Rick Brannan (Faithlife):
The bottom left corner of the Psalms Explorer has an "About & Bibliography" link.

I saw that awhile back (in beta testing). I think that is good info but perhaps all those nice colored icons could be worked into that pop-up so I could find them and discover more about them without reading the entire introduction?

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 2278
Andy | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 29 2014 11:17 AM

Sean Boisen:
We'd like very much to do this same analysis for the OT, but that depends in part on how the feature is received by users.

I'd just like to echo what others have said here.

In my opinion, this is one of the most promising and useful features in L6. I can imagine that I will use this increasingly in Bible study, sermon preparation and for teaching.

It really would be fantastic to have OT coverage.

I understand and appreciate that this is really time-intensive, but this feature (and other tools like it) is what increasingly distinguishes Logos from anything out there. It is one of your unique (and invaluable) selling points Big Smile.

Fantastic work.

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