New Feature: Propositional Outlines

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This post has 68 Replies | 10 Followers

Posts 145
Peter Lever | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 29 2014 11:36 AM

The Propositional Outlines feature is a very very useful feature. Please please have this for OT also!

Posts 7
Bob | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 29 2014 4:03 PM

Interesting, is anyone familiar with the Bible arcing method of study? Do you think this will replace it?

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Levi Durfey | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 29 2014 4:10 PM

If it doesn't replace Arcing in a person's workflow, it certainly could be a great aid to helping them to Arc.

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Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 29 2014 5:20 PM

There's definitely overlap between the Propositional Outlines and arcing.

  1. Both identify propositions in the text
  2. Both relate propositions to each other, via labels
  3. Both show larger relations between propositional units (arcing through larger arcs; Propositional Outlines through the indentation hierarchy)

I'd say arcing goes further in adding higher-level relationships: the Propositional Outlines mainly relate individual propositions (though again the indentation shows one kind of larger relationship, the part to the whole). And of course, arcing (as I understand it) is something you're intended to do for yourself. That's an extremely valuable exercise in Bible study, but one that requires an enormous time commitment. We've tried to offer much of that value to our users who don't have the time or ability to do that analysis themselves.

Posts 570
Schumitinu | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 29 2014 6:19 PM

I have been requesting a propositional outline for the past 18 month or so. I'm really excited that Logos went that route! I know that this takes a lot of work. Very much appreciated!

And yes, the OT would be a very welcome addition too!!!

Posts 6
Antti Ronkainen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 30 2014 3:10 PM

I totally agree with Peter. Thank you! Keep up the good work!

Peter Lever:
The Propositional Outlines feature is a very very useful feature. Please please have this for OT also!

Posts 809
Cynthia in Florida | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 31 2014 3:41 AM

Sorry...I just started a new thread that said how much I LOVE this feature.  I didn't realize this one was started.

That being said, I would have bought the crossgrade for THIS feature alone.  I LOVE it!

Looking forward to (in faith) the OT!!!

Cynthia

Romans 8:28-38

Posts 101
Dan Langston | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 31 2014 4:42 AM

They are very good.  It's fun to go to passages where I have extensive highlighting and click propositional outlines to see how my own study compares.

Posts 2062
GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 31 2014 9:32 PM

It's a silly thing I suppose for me to worry about, but why do some sections start with commas?

Should we report such things as typos?

Posts 29
Dennis Phelps | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 1 2014 9:11 AM

I agree. I hope Logos decides it is work the effort because of the analytical possibilities it would open for us.

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Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 1 2014 5:03 PM

Gao Lu:

It's a silly thing I suppose for me to worry about, but why do some sections start with commas?

Should we report such things as typos?

The Propositional Outline annotation is done on the Greek text: that way we can transfer it to whatever your preferred Bible might be, as long as it has a reverse interlinear. That means the display is generated "on the fly". So these aren't exactly typos, but issues with the display algorithm. I'll file a case to let the developer know.

Posts 618
Ryan | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 3 2014 5:40 AM

Peter Lever:

The Propositional Outlines feature is a very very useful feature. Please please have this for OT also!

Yes Yes Yes

Posts 570
Schumitinu | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 7 2014 8:08 PM

I have expressed my gratitude towards this new feature before. And I really like it.

I'm wondering whether we could be provided with some background to this tool. Especially concerning the labels on a propositional level, what approach has been followed with this? What school or research has this work been based on?

I'm asking so I can know how to use it better. What I have learned in connection with propositional outlining is that you label the propositions according to their relationships. That is, every proposition stands in a relationship with a previous one and/or the one that follows. Some of that is shown here with the indention of lines and putting the proposition number in parenthesis where the relationship is further apart (meaning not to the immediate preceding proposition). But the labels identify the functions of the propositions, not their relationships. This is still helpful but different. Let’s compare the two. First we have the Logos version:

 

Now we have the same passage labeled with relationships: (A Semantic Structural Analysis of Galatians by Elinor MacDonald Roger, SIL 1989)

 

This is obviously more complex. But first, it shows all the relationships well, on more than just one level. Secondly it also shows which proposition is more prominent (the one in capital letters). There are always two propositions that stand in a relationship to one another. It therefore often takes more than one label per proposition since a proposition usually stand in relationship to a previous as well as to a following proposition.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 7 2014 9:04 PM

I assume you checked logosres:lxhmsmntcglssry;art=title;off=4

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 570
Schumitinu | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 7 2014 10:57 PM

MJ. Smith:

I assume you checked logosres:lxhmsmntcglssry;art=title;off=4

checked how? what does this do?

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 7 2014 11:53 PM

It's the Lexham documentation of the feature.

http://www.bible-resources.org/dox/BI262_Prop_Relations is a PDF on the method and has a number of references to research further.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 12:34 AM

Schumitinu:

MJ. Smith:

I assume you checked logosres:lxhmsmntcglssry;art=title;off=4

checked how?

Click on this link and allow Logos to launch 

Posts 31
Tony J. Bowe | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 12:36 AM

Really liking this feature. Would love to see OT functionality adopted, so count me in with the other affirmatives!

Posts 570
Schumitinu | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 1:19 AM

MJ. Smith:

It's the Lexham documentation of the feature.

http://www.bible-resources.org/dox/BI262_Prop_Relations is a PDF on the method and has a number of references to research further.

Thanks! The Lexham Propositional Outlines Glossary has no introduction what so ever. It "only" brings glossary entries. This was my first stop to look for information. But I got none. Unlike the Lexham Theological Wordbook, which has a great introduction explaining the methods behind the work.

I'll check out the PDF you mentioned. Thanks for directing me to it!

Posts 570
Schumitinu | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 1:50 AM

MJ, the PDF would be in line with what I have learned and suggested with the excerpt from the SSA. Beekman and Callow are books in my bookshelf etc. So I do understand that approach. But I'd like to learn more about Logos' approach. Where have they learned and taken their approach from? I'm not saying propositional relationships are better than propositional functions. The semantic function of a proposition plays a big role in the communication process. And it sometimes lines up with its semantic relationship to other propositions. All I'm saying is, it is a different approach, one I haven't come across yet and therefore would like to get some insights and documentation on.

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