Disappointment with Logos 6 Atlas and Maps

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This post has 25 Replies | 6 Followers

Posts 612
John Brumett | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Oct 30 2014 6:12 AM

Say that I'm in Number 13:21 in the NKJV concerning the spies exploring the Promise Land and then I right click on Hamath and go to Bible Facts.  There are no relevant maps listed concerning the spies and the promise land.  I then search media and I have to hunt through the maps to find one related to this event. 

There are many maps in my library that deal with the spies and the promise land such as

1.   The Land Of Canaan Explored By The Twelve Scouts in the Zondervan Atlas of the Bible

2.  The Journey of the Spies in the Holman Bible Atlas

3.  The Journey of the Spies in the New Moody Atlas of the Bible

4.  The Journey of the Spies in the ESV Study Bible

5.  The Travel of the Spies in Rose Then and Now Bible Map Atlas

 

Tags all these maps with Numbers 13:21-33; 34:1-12 and Have them show up first in one location. 

Biblical Places Maps do not contain an inline search.  Biblical places do not contain other maps such as the Maps in the Zondervan Bible Atlas, ESV, Holman Bible Atlas, ect.  Why not contain all the Maps in one location.  In Factbook only a few maps are viewable and only Logos 5 maps and Atlas Maps.     

The other Maps in the ESV were Zoomable and full screen but only the Bible Atlas Maps and the Logos 5 maps are Zoomable and full screen.      

Please make all maps in my library available in Atlas.  Tag all the Biblical maps with context specific scripture references.  Make these context specific maps available first when they appear.  I know you are creating context specific maps in Atlas but why not make the other maps available by tagging them with Scriptures.  

Please make the Atlas available from the right click menu.  Combine all maps in Atlas.  Tag all maps with Scripture References and make these maps show up first in the list.     

Finally Atlas works only when you are online.  I don't know if this can be corrected but the other items can be fixed.    

Posts 8660
TCBlack | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 30 2014 6:36 AM

John Brumett:
Finally Atlas works only when you are online.
This is by design. There are many GB of maps and more being made as we speak type. Downloading them is not likely to happen.  Though I do recall discussions on caching.

As for the other maps missing, etc.  I agree you're seeing some tagging issues.

Hmm Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 

Posts 79
LogosEmployee
Jeff Jackson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 30 2014 6:47 AM

You probably don't have enough disk space to store all the maps, which is why it's an online feature only. We are also still creating more maps for the atlas and will be for several months to come. I believe the goal is to have a map in the Atlas for every passage that could have a relevant one. 

Posts 612
John Brumett | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 30 2014 7:02 AM

The Atlas being online is not my main issue.  Accessing my existing relevant maps in one place is the main concern. Tagging all Biblical Maps with Scrupture references will go a long way to solving this issue.

Posts 612
John Brumett | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 30 2014 9:38 AM

An example would be to tag the ESV maps with these Scripture References.  

4118.ESV Bible Atlas in Biblical Order.docx

Posts 955
LogosEmployee
Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 30 2014 12:01 PM

John:

Do you mean in Logos 6? At the top of the Factbook page for Hamath (which has replaced Bible Facts in Logos 5), I have three of our new Atlas maps interspersed with the Logos 5 maps (which are now in their own resource: Biblical Places Maps).

If i click on the link for "Search Media for 'Hamath'", i see more of the Atlas maps, as well as Biblical Places Maps, and images and maps from other resources (including the "classic" Logos Deluxe Map Set with the dayglo color scheme Smile).

We invest the most tagging effort in our maps, because they function best in our software. For example, zooming in on maps in Biblical Places Maps or other atlas resources makes the image bigger: but in our Atlas maps (like the Biblical World map in Biblical Places Maps), when you zoom in you get actually more information. So you have better ability to control the level of detail you want.

In addition, both our Biblical Place Maps from Logos 5, and the new Atlas maps, are interactive: you can hover over a place and get more information, as well as link to the full Factbook page. That's not true of any of the 3rd party maps. You can even search by reference, by place, or by event. So Atlas will be the place where all Logos-created maps will appear.

We're still working on Atlas maps: our current coverage is most of the passages from the Life of Jesus era, and next up will be maps from the Early Church era. So you'll see a lot more content coming out here in the next few months. Our goal is to have a map for every story in the Bible that needs one: that's a lot of maps! But these zoomable, interactive maps are also harder to make than the previous kind.

(Atlas maps still don't have the Ctrl-F feature that Biblical Places Maps have, which enables you to search for a particular location on the current map. That's coming in a later release. )

Posts 5620
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 30 2014 12:21 PM

Sean Boisen:
We're still working on Atlas maps: our current coverage is most of the passages from the Life of Jesus era, and next up will be maps from the Early Church era. So you'll see a lot more content coming out here in the next few months. Our goal is to have a map for every story in the Bible that needs one: that's a lot of maps! But these zoomable, interactive maps are also harder to make than the previous kind.

Sean,

Can you update the maps product pages with a content listing before you release the content?  I don't currently have volume 3 since it wasn't in the BP I bought.  I'm trying to decide if I want to spend money to buy a crossgrade to get it.  Seems like a waste right now since it doesn't contain anything, plus I don't know what I'd be paying for anyway.

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 955
LogosEmployee
Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 30 2014 12:46 PM

Volume 3 is slated to have around 50 maps. I'll try to make sure the product page is updated as we finalize these lists.

The Feature Crossgrade includes all the maps, all the datasets AFAIK, and all the new media, at a reasonable price: so that's what i'd recommend.

Posts 5620
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 30 2014 12:51 PM

Sean Boisen:
Volume 3 is slated to have around 50 maps.

Is that approximately the same for each of the volumes?

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 955
LogosEmployee
Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 30 2014 1:01 PM

Todd Phillips:

Sean Boisen:
Volume 3 is slated to have around 50 maps.

Is that approximately the same for each of the volumes?

The allocation will be approximately

  • Volume 1: 100 maps
  • Volume 2: 100 maps
  • Volume 3: 50 maps

We're grouping Biblical Events onto maps that are related in the text and geographically: so, for example, the map for "Jesus Feeds 5000, Walks on Water, and Teaches" covers all the events from two episodes:

(Notice by the way that these higher level episodes, periods, and eras all have Factbook pages now: previously that was only true of the more focused events.)

As we're working on the maps, we sometimes split or join to make sure each map does the best job of telling these particular stories: you don't have to hunt around for Capernaum on this map, because the content is now focused on a small number of stories, with much less detail that's extraneous to this particular story (accompanied by the Biblical World maps with larger geographic context). So we're not being coy: we really don't know yet exactly how many maps we'll wind up with, other than our draft projections (about 250) and "enough".

Posts 5620
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 30 2014 1:05 PM

Thanks Sean.  Very helpful.

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Posts 612
John Brumett | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 30 2014 1:37 PM

Sean:  Your missing my point.  None of the first 5 maps in the atlas deal with the spies searching the promise land.  This is the context of the passage in Numbers.  Even your second example in the library results deal with the deportation of the Israelites and the Promise land, the third map deals with Ezekiel's vision of the promise land and even though all these maps contain the city of Hamath, I would like the maps dealing with that context showing up first such as the ones I listed below.  I know atlas will create context specific maps but why not access context specific maps that are already available.  I think this can be done by searching by scripture references tied to the Biblical Event not just to the city.   The programmers can tag the maps by Scripture Reference tied to the Biblical Event.          

There are many maps in my library that deal with the spies and the promise land such as

1.   The Land Of Canaan Explored By The Twelve Scouts in the Zondervan Atlas of the Bible

2.  The Journey of the Spies in the Holman Bible Atlas

3.  The Journey of the Spies in the New Moody Atlas of the Bible

4.  The Journey of the Spies in the ESV Study Bible

5.  The Travel of the Spies in Rose Then and Now Bible Map Atlas

P.S.  Yes I have Logos 6

Posts 9093
LogosEmployee

John Brumett:
Tags all these maps with Numbers 13:21-33; 34:1-12 and Have them show up first in one location. 

This is already done.

Open a Media Search, select "Maps" in the top left, then enter <Num 13:21-33>. The results will be maps tagged with that reference:

Posts 612
John Brumett | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 30 2014 2:00 PM
Is this available in the Zondervan Bible or Moody Bible Atlas? Is this functionality available in Factbook?
Posts 955
LogosEmployee
Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 30 2014 3:38 PM

In my library, Media Search for <Num 13:21-33> returns 5 results, from

  1. ESV Study Bible
  2. Holman Bible Atlas
  3. Holman QuickSource guide to understanding the Bible
  4. Rose Then and Now Bible Map Atlas with Biblical Background and Culture
  5. A Visual Guide to Bible Events: Fascinating Insights into Where They Happened and Why

I don't have Moody Bible Atlas (and we don't seem to offer it on logos.com). I do have Zondervan Atlas of the Bible, so that result seems to be missing: i'll check on that.

Posts 955
LogosEmployee
Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 31 2014 9:55 AM

Todd Phillips:

Sean Boisen:
Volume 3 is slated to have around 50 maps.

Is that approximately the same for each of the volumes?

I've posted the likely contents of the three volumes here (though it's still tentative, since we haven't made all these maps yet).

Posts 2
James Grohs | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 4 2015 11:52 AM

So the Atlas feature is still a work in progress then. I hope so, because right now I have not had anything I want to look up show up. I should think that I could type in Laodicea and have the city show up on a map. It doesn't. I would think that I could type in Rev 3 and have the 7 cities show up, but they does not.  There is no doubt in my mind that a comprehensive mapping tool would have to be much to large for me to have on my computer. I consider this a good thing. No skimping. The only problem is that at this point is a very weak tool. I can only hope that the months will improve it to meet anyone's expectation

Posts 5743
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 4 2015 7:11 PM

Logos has a tendency to push out partly developed stuff, over hype the marketing of it, and then when complaints start coming in they tell everyone the feature is still under development after we have paid for it.  They need to be more honest up front that we are paying for a work in progress. Unfortunately the drive for profit leads them to not making it very clear to customers before they buy which features are still a work in progress.

Posts 2589
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 4 2015 7:32 PM

One of my primary motivations for upgrading was the Atlas tool.

See the marketing here.

As of now, I'm disappointed with it.

Posts 955
LogosEmployee
Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 5 2015 12:11 PM

I'm sorry for the disappointment. The Atlas involved some ambitious technical challenges, and we haven't been able to deliver maps nearly as quickly as I hoped we would. Zooming in particular is much more complicated, since for a map with 8 zoom levels we have to specify what is displayed at each level. But rather than waiting until the set was complete, we decided to ship what we have and then add to it as more become available.

If you purchased all three Atlas volumes, you'll get maps covering the eras listed here, and the total number of maps will be about 250 for these three volumes. If you compare the detail of the Atlas map "From Lystra to Troas -- Paul, Silas, and Timothy" to what's in the Biblical Places map (Paul's First and Second Missionary Journeys), I hope you'll agree the increase in information, detail, and quality is substantial. We just need to get more of them shipped.

James Grohs:

... I should think that I could type in Laodicea and have the city show up on a map. It doesn't. I would think that I could type in Rev 3 and have the 7 cities show up, but they does not.  ...

I understand why this is frustrating. There are several things going on here:

  • The map for Biblical World -- The Early Church does include Laodicea, but it's not visible when you're zoomed out. Note if you start from Factbook or Media Search for <Place Laodicea>, clicking on the thumbnail automatically zooms you into the place (a bit too far, in fact: that will be improved in an upcoming release).
  • We don't yet have the ability to search for a city on a map with Ctrl-F. That's scheduled for an upcoming release, and will make it easier to see places that are on a map but not visible at the current zoom level.
  • We've designed the Atlas to focus on story maps rather than large overview maps. So we made a design decision that search would only return maps where the place is part of the story. Returning every map that shows a place would return dozens of maps, only some of which actually relate a biblical story about that place. Laodicea is also on the map From Lystra to Troas but only as background information, since it's in the general vicinity but not part of the episode in Acts 16:6-10 (that will also be true of several other maps that haven't been published yet): so it doesn't come up in Atlas search for Laodicea. That still seems like the right long-term strategy to me, but we may reconsider it in the interests of showing off more of what's available today.
  • We plan to have a map showing the seven churches of Rev 1-3 (which will of course include Laodicea as part of the story), but that map hasn't shipped yet.

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