I Think We Are at THAT Point

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Alan Charles Gielczyk | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 3 2014 11:46 AM

We have gotten quite a few training videos with Logos 6. If you don't consider a dozen or more 1-2 minute videos training would you consider one 20 minute video training? There is more training coming for a reasonable price, someone has already mentioned John and his website has dozens of hours of video training at very reasonable prices.

I am squarely on Faithlifes side here. My wife works for a third party company that provides training for Adobe and Microsoft. She specializes in Adobe Framemaker and the clients spend over $1000 for 15 hours of training for the intro class and over $1500 for the advanced class of 15 more hours. I am happy we have access to training from Morris and John at nowhere near this price

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Fred Chapman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 3 2014 12:08 PM

MP's training is good. John from learnlogos.com does  good job. Perhaps the training I like the most is that which has been produced over the years by people like Mark Barnes. His material is usually very practical and easy to follow. I think we will probably see those type of videos coming in the near future.  

Posts 2811
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 3 2014 12:12 PM

Alan Charles Gielczyk:
I am squarely on Faithlifes side here.

Alan, if you think there are 'sides' to this issue, you've clearly misunderstood the nature and intent of the OP.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 3024
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 3 2014 12:29 PM

Rich DeRuiter:

SineNomine:
Base packages should include training videos and other materials. Period.

They do include training materials. Other materials are accessible (to everyone) on-line.

Those aren't really training materials. Those are introductory materials. Verbum Practicum is a good example of a collection of training materials.

I have no problem in principle with paying for training, and if I spend hundreds (or more) on a base package (or several of them), I'd appreciate paid-level training materials. So would lots of other people.

Posts 81
Jim Wait | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 3 2014 2:04 PM

I just received a manual from Morris Proctor that covers everything in Logos 6 in a way that is very understandable and thorough.  The price of this manual is 14.95.  It is available from MPSeminars.com.  In my opinion Morris is one of the best teachers I have ever experienced in any field. This manual is 150 pages long.  I doubt that the 14.95 even covers the cost of this great production.

What could a Christian possibly desire more than Logos?  Thank you LOGOS.  Keep growing and changing and producing the greatest tool on earth.

Thank you Morris Proctor..

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 3 2014 2:27 PM

Doc B:
With L6, we have a rather long list of new features, and very little material from Logos with which to work. I assume this body of material will grow a bit over the next few months. But I would love to see it grow faster and more than it has in the past, and not leave the training up to MP or kind volunteer lay-users.

I know that there's a team in Logos that are actively working on creating short Logos 6 training videos, similar to the ones that have already been released, but covering a much wider selection of features.

But like you, I'd love to see even more. My dream would be a MobileEd training resource. Like this one, but that comes free with base packages, and covers more topics and is more in-depth. It would probably need 16 hours, rather than 7. That's only a dream though. Sadly, I don't think it's likely in the short term.

That said, it doesn't matter if we don't use all the software. I intend only to use about 75% of the functionality, because that's all I need to do my ministry well. A decent chunk of that 75% didn't exist until last week, and some of the 25% I won't use has been there since L4 days.

That said, I'm already looking forward to L7 giving me even more things I didn't know I needed Smile.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 3 2014 2:34 PM

It's not as if Logos has ignored the idea https://www.logos.com/product/16094/practicum-learn-to-use-verbum

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 142
David Medina | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 3 2014 3:17 PM

Learnlogos.com has lots of training, and I mean lots of training.

Proctors does a lot too. 

Do they charge for their work? Yes, they do. I do too for mine.

Posts 2041
GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 3 2014 4:08 PM

LearnLogos and MP are very, very good.  Training videos abound.  Logos markets with a fire hose.  I suggest that the best marketing tool of all would be a reasonable manual that showed most commonly used functions with examples.  Something like the Rowenta only maybe a bit more Robust.

My children come in 2 genders but I think the thing that would get them over the curb from "Logos is cool and my dad bought it for me" to addicted, inveterate Logos users would be a $14.95 paper manual. Even PDF.  Best, cheapest marketing tool Logos could ever use.  They won't go out and buy one, because, well...they don't have a lot of money and they haven't seen enough value to even go buy the manual. Or perhaps they have seen the value, but their ain't no manual to buy.  Well there is.  For $59.95 or the deluxe version for $100. 

Logos, Logos, here my humble plea.  While on others thou art waiting, Please don't pass my children by.    

On the other hand, Logos is kind of designed for power users from the get-go.  Prices start at $294, and that doesn't provide a lot unless someone already knows what it is. so maybe Logos isn't for that kind of people.  

Posts 166
Anthony | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 3 2014 5:13 PM

Jim Wait:

I just received a manual from Morris Proctor that covers everything in Logos 6 in a way that is very understandable and thorough.  The price of this manual is 14.95.  It is available from MPSeminars.com.  In my opinion Morris is one of the best teachers I have ever experienced in any field. This manual is 150 pages long.  I doubt that the 14.95 even covers the cost of this great production.

What could a Christian possibly desire more than Logos?  Thank you LOGOS.  Keep growing and changing and producing the greatest tool on earth.

Thank you Morris Proctor..

Can you shed light on how detailed the manual is? I have the Logos 5 manuals (two of them I believe) and I was pretty happy with them. For example, how detailed is it on the Parallel Gospel Reader? 

I've found two places that talk about it, here and here, and neither offered examples such as different layouts options you can use in the resource. So I'm stuck experimenting, hoping I am utilizing everything in a timely manner. Does the Morris Proctor Manual state more than the two links I provided? 

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 3 2014 5:36 PM

I purchased Morris Proctor's "What's New in Logos 6" manual as well as pre-ordered John Fallahee's Logos 6 Training Bundle.

Both Morris and John are excellent trainers. I have learned so much from both of them.

Sure it involves investing a little time and money into their materials (except for John's free live webinars), but it's so worth it. I feel far more confident with Logos with two great trainers keeping me up-to-speed.

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 3006
David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 3 2014 5:39 PM

Nathan Parker:

I purchased Morris Proctor's "What's New in Logos 6" manual as well as pre-ordered John Fallahee's Logos 6 Training Bundle.

Both Morris and John are excellent trainers. I have learned so much from both of them.

Sure it involves investing a little time and money into their materials (except for John's free live webinars), but it's so worth it. I feel far more confident with Logos with two great trainers keeping me up-to-speed.

I just wish MP's books were available in Logos Format or even PDF (If they already are please tell me!)

Teacher, Ministry Leader, Student, Author, Husband

How to upload logs

Visit My Site: Reformed Truths

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Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 3 2014 5:48 PM

David Paul:
Case in point: NET Bible has hundreds, maybe thousands, of links that don't do what they should.

The NET Bible is a (the only?) Bible we didn't produce the files for. It was built by another company using our tools, and thus it's been difficult to get it updated as new destinations for the links appear, etc. I don't mean to blame the other party -- the whole situation is a bit of a mess -- but I do want to explain why this one book isn't up-to-date with our tagging standards. As far as I know, we don't have access to the original files to rebuild it, and the other company doesn't (and simply can't) know all the internal knowledge about how to tag it right. (Or the custom tools we now use for that.)

This is one of the reasons we're taken all book production in-house -- there's just no other way to keep everything in sync in such a constantly changing environment.

I'll take this as a reminder to work on the problem again, and try to get it resolved. But please realize that this (and all books whose IDs start 'GS_') is one of the few exceptions to our plan for rich tagging. If there are other books that are bothering you, please email me directly at bob@faithlife.com and I'll see if we can get them higher on the maintenance list.

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Bob Pritchett | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 3 2014 5:58 PM

Doc B:
In my opinion, having used Logos since its third iteration, the software is now at the point where the average user will never use all the features in the software. Some specialty users will, and a few even might find it limiting in terms of total features, but for the most of us, we'll scratch the surface on everything and end up using some smaller percentage of the software for the duration.

I agree. The problem is, everybody uses a different part of the product! One person's cake is another person's icing, and yet another's unnecessary decorative flower. And it's different for the next user...

I've asked the team responsible for some of the new content and publications to spend extra effort on blog posts, videos and explanations of what's new. But it would help, too, if you can tell us specific areas where you'd like help.

Another small problem is that the skill to design/implement a special feature isn't the same skill as knowing what to do with it in Bible study. :-)

This is why Morris and John and others are so valuable in their (outside) contributions -- they're able to put the tools in the context of teaching Bible study methods. When you let the more technical of us explain things, you get manuals that list all the buttons and then restate their descriptions in longer sentences. It fills the pages, but isn't that helpful....

Tens of thousands of people use the product frequently, and (according to the stats we get) most use it by running guides and following hyperlinks through the system. This is pretty easy to do, and easy to figure out. I think where people really want help (?) is learning to do more complex searches, manage complex layouts, etc. And there we find that the needs are so exotic -- and so specific -- that answering questions may just be more efficient than trying to document things.

(We do an occasional anonymous analysis of search queries, looking for patterns that could show us what people are doing/looking-for frequently. What's amazing is how little help this is -- the queries are incredibly diverse, and usually just a word or two. It's hard to find an obvious win for documentation or UI -- usage is either very vanilla, or amazingly specific.)

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 3 2014 5:59 PM

Andy Evans:
I can't say whether it is a gender thing, but I prefer to press stuff randomly until it just works. If (or when) that doesn't work, I get at it with my screwdriver set

lol, thanks for the laugh!

Andy Evans:
Finally, I resort to my faithful claw hammer.

. . . perhaps you mean faithLIFE claw hammer?

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 3 2014 6:12 PM

Doc B:

Alan Charles Gielczyk:
I am squarely on Faithlifes side here.

Alan, if you think there are 'sides' to this issue, you've clearly misunderstood the nature and intent of the OP.

I appreciate this nuance, and I think it is great you are advocating for your desire to improve your Logos 6 skills.  I wholeheartedly concur that the software offers a lot and any training we get not only helps us, but makes the experience more enjoyable and more productive.  Doc B, I may have missed it, but have you tried either John's or Morris' training material?

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 166
Anthony | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 3 2014 6:21 PM

Nathan Parker:

I purchased Morris Proctor's "What's New in Logos 6" manual as well as pre-ordered John Fallahee's Logos 6 Training Bundle.

Both Morris and John are excellent trainers. I have learned so much from both of them.

Sure it involves investing a little time and money into their materials (except for John's free live webinars), but it's so worth it. I feel far more confident with Logos with two great trainers keeping me up-to-speed.

I just attended John Fallahee's online webinar/training session, and I'm blown away with his teaching; I'm certain his materials would be excellent aids. 

Posts 2811
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 3 2014 6:41 PM

Bob Pritchett:
I've asked the team responsible for some of the new content and publications to spend extra effort on blog posts, videos and explanations of what's new. But it would help, too, if you can tell us specific areas where you'd like help.

First, thanks, Bob, for responding. It is always nice to know the customer has a voice, as we've always had since I've been with Logos.

Second, I really appreciate your comment I quoted. This is great news. And I think lots of us would be glad to tell you specific areas where we'd like help. Figuring out how to collect this info will be your biggest problem, probably.

I agree with your take on Mo and other trainers. I've attended Camp Logos back in the L4 days, and would go again if he ever got close enough to justify the travel costs. (Unfortunately, there ain't much near Amarillo, TX.) There will continue to be a place for this kind of training, IMO. But I think there is also a place for more extensive training videos (and other media) from Faithlife itself, whether on Youtube or some other channel. (BTW, the Quickstart videos in L6 are nice, but working in the software while watching a video is hard unless you have dual monitors, and I don't.) Short tutorials on how to do little things are helpful. Mo's Monday how-to tips are always helpful, but we need more of those. One every day brings to mind an old Kool n the Gang song from the late 70s. (My Evernote has a notebook full of clippings from those MP posts, and I refer to them often.)

As I alluded in my OP, one of your best marketing tools will be users who feel they are getting their money's worth, and good training is about the only way I know to make sure this comfort level gets to the masses.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 2811
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 3 2014 6:45 PM

Dan DeVilder:
Doc B, I may have missed it, but have you tried either John's or Morris' training material?

Dan,

The one time Mo got within driving distance (which was 300 miles), I attended his Camp Logos I. (That was in Albuquerque around 2007 or 8.) Loved it.

I've also purchased some training online, but I can't remember if it was John or someone else. I thought the training was well worth what I paid for it.

I'll continue to purchase this type of training if it comes with good reviews, and doesn't cost more than my budget allows.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 2237
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 3 2014 8:13 PM

Logos has easily become a bit feature heavy. I do think training and manuals have there place. One of the really great thing is that Logos so neatly puts the resources most of us need to have right up front. Back when L4 came out, I was immediately impressed at how readily contextual exegesis was placed at one's fingertips.It was very close to what I had always thought was an ideal way to study.

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

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