You have to pay for KJV?

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This post has 64 Replies | 6 Followers

Posts 10
Daniel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Nov 8 2014 12:48 AM

I did a search on the Logos website for the Authorized Version and it is indeed the King James Version. It's for sale for 10 dollars. Once I get my refund (they already deleted the content I purchased, but I still haven't received my refund) then I will purchase the King James Version to add to my library.

Posts 15
Kevin Richards | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 17 2015 3:57 PM

It would be very nice if we refrain from the practice of just labelling people before we really understand their point of view. The people you refer to as KJV-only have raised some fundamental isuues that have gone really wrong with several of the popular versions of today. It would be nice if you forget about your position on the issue and really look at it from an objective unbiased point of view. I have so I know we all can. Let's just stop call people names.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 17 2015 4:13 PM

Welcome to the forums, Kevin. I didn't see anyone refer to KJV-only in this thread. Most people try to focus on Logos software, the purpose of this forum, rather than theological debate or name calling. Is there some reference here that concerned you?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 2293
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 17 2015 4:53 PM

MJ. Smith:

Welcome to the forums, Kevin. I didn't see anyone refer to KJV-only in this thread. Most people try to focus on Logos software, the purpose of this forum, rather than theological debate or name calling. Is there some reference here that concerned you?

From the 6th post:

Jerry Bush:

Actually he sounds like a troll for the KJV-only movement. 

Entire books and chapters missing? List them.

Jerry

But Jerry apologized and all was finished until the post by Kevin Richards.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 17 2015 5:05 PM

Kevin Richards:
It would be very nice if we refrain from the practice of just labelling people before we really understand their point of view.
 

Yes, Kevin, we shouldn't presume we know why people post. And    {EDIT: premature} labelling is seldom helpful. 

Welcome to the forums.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 623
JAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 17 2015 5:10 PM

Joseph, I just noticed your disclaimer and how it seems appropriate to this thread. Yes

Joseph Turner:
Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

"The Christian mind is the prerequisite of Christian thinking. And Christian thinking is the prerequisite of Christian action." - Harry Blamires, 1963

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 17 2015 5:15 PM

Super.Tramp:

 And labelling is seldom helpful. 

Super Tramp, Super Tramp, why must you tempt me? Labeling is very useful - if Mother hadn't labelled heirlooms with where they were from and to whom they were to go, clearing her apartment would have been much more difficult. And if I didn't label pantry and freezer items I'd be even more puzzled than I am now. So don't 'dis labeling. Stick out tongue  Wink

Okay, I went off topic but its the weekend .... Big Smile

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 17 2015 5:28 PM

MJ. Smith:
So don't 'dis labeling

I like labels too.  

***Edited my earlier post to specify "premature" labelling.***

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 2293
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 17 2015 7:10 PM

JAL:

Joseph, I just noticed your disclaimer and how it seems appropriate to this thread. Yes

Joseph Turner:
Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Yes

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 5859
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 17 2015 8:24 PM

I don't disagree with what either of you are saying in principal but they don't really stand up as valid arguments for Logos charging $10 for KJV when you can get the  Lexham English Bible - which probably involves more tagging and notes than KJV - for free.  Logos don't ask you to pay $10 to help cover costs of LEB so why for the PD KJV ?  It really comes down to being a business decision.

Todd Phillips:

Super.Tramp:

Graham Criddle:
My understanding is that licensing arrangements allow Logos to make it available online (note that unless you purchase it you can't download it to your mobile device - unless that has changed) and the desktop app requires resources to be downloaded.

Say what?  There are no licensing issues when it comes to KJV.

The tagging for the desktop program is why it costs $$10.

Plus the ongoing support costs, such as phone support and server maintenance.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 17 2015 8:27 PM

Yes, but Faithlife owns all the rights to their Bible while Queen Elizabeth owns the rights to the KJV IIRC,

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 10
Daniel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 18 2015 12:45 AM

I actually deleted the Logos app and am now using another. It comes with KJV with no strings attached or license to buy. They also gave me the KJV with Strong's and the NKJV with Strong's and several other modules because I was having trouble with the app. I have been happy with this other app and really feel like I was a priority to them when they reached out to me on how they could help. I didn't get that with Logos. What I got was email after email asking me to buy their prepackaged packages containing modules I'll never use or want. I had to respond several times to ask them to stop emailing me about buying their packages. They also didn't want to help me concerning my issues with the modules I did purchase or was thinking about purchasing so I left Logos. That said, I do like Logos' format and app, I just don't like how they conduct their business side of things. I wish they had a make your own package instead of coming out with packages with what they feel you should have. I also wish they would remove the apocryphal notes and verses from the standard KJV module because I didn't want to pay for the module with apocrypha and feel like it is forced on me whether I want it or not. There are a few other concerns why I left but after deciding to leave to continue with the other app, I've been blessed and content using it for my study and reading. 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 18 2015 1:18 AM

If you had requested information on how to turn off the emails, I would have gladly told you how to do so. Your experience regarding Logos' helpfulness is not typical, although I am uncertain as to what you would describe as "issues with the modules". Modules is not Logos terminology where problems are described as occurring in a resource or in the software. But given your problems, I am glad you have found something that better fits your needs. Given what you have indicated in your posts, I suspect that is a good decision. Good luck.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 5859
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 18 2015 1:46 AM

Daniel:
 I just don't like how they conduct their business side of things. 

Totally agree. This company has lost its way and become too interested in chasing sales. Everything else has become secondary.

Posts 5859
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 18 2015 1:50 AM

you are continuing a very weak argument.  We have already established KJV is PD and is free in some other software programs

MJ. Smith:

Yes, but Faithlife owns all the rights to their Bible while Queen Elizabeth owns the rights to the KJV IIRC,

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 18 2015 2:03 AM

I was merely making an observation/assertion. For a variety of reasons based upon the content of posts by the OP, I chose not to present an argument ... had I presented an argument, this is not the tack I would take.

"Copyright status

The Authorized Version is in the public domain in most of the world. However, in the United Kingdom, the right to print, publish and distribute it is a Royal prerogative and the Crown licenses publishers to reproduce it under letters patent. In England, Wales and Northern Ireland the letters patent are held by the Queen's Printer, and in Scotland by the Scottish Bible Board. The office of Queen's Printer has been associated with the right to reproduce the Bible for centuries, the earliest known reference coming in 1577. In the 18th century all surviving interests in the monopoly were bought out by John Baskett. The Baskett rights descended through a number of printers and, in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, the Queen's Printer is now Cambridge University Press, who inherited the right when they took over the firm of Eyre & Spottiswoode in 1990.

Other royal charters of similar antiquity grant Cambridge University Press and Oxford University Press the right to produce the Authorized Version independently of the Queen's Printer. In Scotland the Authorized Version is published by Collins under licence from the Scottish Bible Board. The terms of the letters patent prohibit any other than the holders, or those authorized by the holders, from printing, publishing or importing the Authorized Version into the United Kingdom. The protection that the Authorized Version, and also the Book of Common Prayer, enjoy is the last remnant of the time when the Crown held a monopoly over all printing and publishing in the United Kingdom. All provisions granting copyright in perpetuity were abolished by the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, but because the Authorized Version is protected by royal prerogative rather than copyright, it will remain protected, as specified in CDPA s171(1)(b) .

Permission[edit]

Cambridge University Press permits the reproduction of at most 500 verses for "liturgical and non-commercial educational use" if their prescribed acknowledgement is included, the quoted verses do not exceed 25% of the publication quoting them and do not include a complete Bible book.[154] For use beyond this, the Press is willing to consider permission requested on a case-by-case basis and in 2011 a spokesman said the Press generally does not charge a fee but tries to ensure that a reputable source text is used."

Note also that copyright applies to a particular text. Updating spelling and grammar can create a newly copyrightable text - or even transcribing a manuscript in some circumstances. But I don't particularly suspect that Faithlife is using a copyright version.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 15
Kevin Richards | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 18 2015 4:13 AM

NB.Mick:

One reason resources are a bit more expensive than elsewhere is that Logos resources are tagged to work with all these functionalities - so Logos invests effort into this and it's not free to them, even if the text is in the Public Domain. You'll be happy to see that there are some free bibles in Logos, most prominently the Lexham English Bible.  While you're at it, pick up the Faithlife Study Bible for free, too.

This I believe does not properly answer Daniel's concerns. Logos offers several books for free which require similar or maybe even more investment than that of the KJV. The versions they make available for free are not very reliable as has been shown by many evidencies. But that's for another decussion. My point is, if cost is an issue and I want to give something I have produced away for free, as a servant of God, I would chose to give away that which speaks more to my mission and purpose for free. Seeing we are amdassadors for God, then our primary goal should be to get the Word of God out to the world. Logos shows it's power and might in the study of God's word. It is unmatched by any other Bible Software on the market. I have been using it since Version 1.6 and was very fascinated from the moment I installed it from the floppy disks. Therefore, I believe the cost of Logos Bible Software should more be recovered in the arena of that which sets them apart from the rest, the study resources. 

I am not in anyway diminishing what Logos have done, in making the basic platform available for free. I think that was a very good move, but I think the KJV should be in there, FREE. Unless Logos does not view the KJV as a reliable translation. Personally, I have come to see that no other translation has endured the persecution the KJV has gone through, and it has endured them all. To rule th KJV as unreliable is a crucial mistake we should avoid. None-the-less, I refuse to believe that that is what Logos is doing. 

Posts 10
Daniel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 19 2015 7:16 PM

I agree with Kevin. The KJV is PD and should be free regardless of what Logos thinks. That said, I do not hate Logos. I really like the app on the iPad. I love all the resources it has, albeit, many of the more useful ones are only available online, which is another reason I left Logos. I went to the other Bible software because their resources are available in the app. I like that. I like having everything available to me without having to take my phone, turn on a hotspot, and going online, just to check something, then turning off the hotspot and going back to reading. I just don't want people to think I am bashing Logos at all. They made an amazing software and I enjoyed it for as long as I had it, despite not being able to use the KJV or even the NKJV but only having other, modern, problematic versions available that are free. These "easy to read" modern versions that came into existence like the NIV, NLT, CEV, and others, I just cannot stand. I don't care for these translations but do use them for reference only, never study. This post is not about those modern versions, so I won't get into that here.

While Logos has made a great software and app, they lack in other areas, like business decisions. I thank you, MJ, for your help regarding these issues. I did turn off all email notifications and even wrote to Logos to ask them to stop emailing me, which I never got a response, just more emails wanting me to buy preloaded Bible resources which I will never use and am not interested in. Like I said above, if they came out with a feature to build your own resource pack, then I would be interested in continuing to use Logos. And, if they got rid of the apocrypha stuff in the KJV, which should not be there, but is included and forced on us whether we like it or not, then I would also continue to use Logos. I know the apocrypha stuff is not that much of a big deal, but when the company offers a apocrypha Bible as a standalone resource, then offers the KJV but includes all the apocrypha stuff in it to probably save themselves the work to separate everything, it becomes a big deal to me. The app I am using now offers a Bible with apocrypha, but separates the KJV without all those non-canon books forced on us. You can buy the Bible with and be happy or you can get the KJV without which is how it was to begin with.

This thread was not about the authenticity of God's Word, but about the pricing of a Public Domain translation of God's Word. I still believe that it should be free, regardless of how much time it took to write to code for Logos' app. Logos should not use that as an excuse to charge for something that has been free for the longest time. This is my thought on this and I won't sway from it. Every other app offers it for free and I don't see why Logos does not. It's free on the apps, but not on the downloadable software for the PC. I loved Logos, especially all the highlighting features, that I will miss, but I am doubly happy where I am now. I truly thank you, MJ and all of you for your thoughts and responses. I apologize if this thread upset anyone.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 19 2015 7:22 PM

I can't believe that I have to pay my electric bill.  I didn't pay it last month and now they're threatening to shut me off ! 

Not really, but you get the point.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 19 2015 9:29 PM

Daniel:
It's free on the apps, but not on the downloadable software for the PC.

A free Logos option for PC and Mac is creating a KJV Personal Book Bible.  Thread => American Standard Version 1901 - Personal Bible without Chapter and Verse #'s has Bible docx files with Chapter and Verse plus Red Letter tagging.

Logos Blog has an article about KJV variations => https://blog.logos.com/2006/03/in_search_of_the_king_james_ve_1/ and Anglican KJV history => https://blog.logos.com/2013/06/scripture-in-the-anglican-tradition-the-story-of-the-king-james-bible/  Wikipedia article about KJV mentions 1611 "He" and "She" printings => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KJV

Searched Logos.com for History of English Bibles => https://www.logos.com/products/search?q=history+english+bible

Vyrso has some History of English Bible eBooks => https://vyrso.com/products/search?q=history+english+bibles

Thankful for 928 free Vyrso eBooks since Thanksgiving 2011, which are usable in Logos, Verbum, and Noet on PC and Mac (plus mobile apps).

Searching my Logos library for articles about the History of English Bibles found:

Thankful for Logos additional tagging that allows for visual filter highlighting so can "see" range of Greek verbal expression in a passage plus show Louw-Nida domain tagging of discourse markers:

Noticed five Greek tenses: Aorist, Future, Imperfect, Perfect, and Present in 2 Peter 3.  Likewise noted five imperative moods.

Thankful for Logos 6 option to hide display of Chapter and Verse numbers.

Keep Smiling Smile

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