"Valued Customers"

I love logos and have used it for years but I am tiered of the way the milk you with the upgrades. I am on my third upgrade and now they want me to buy another. (Logos 6) My calculations are that i have spent almost 5K with them and now it is upgrade time again. I QUIT!!! You would think they would value their customers for more than milking their money. I guess it works great for them but not for the customer.

I am an apple user and their latest upgrade was free. They are into customer service and their last upgrade was $20, Logos 6 is asking me for $1300+ to make the across the board upgrade. Thanks, but I am done, I wish I would have gone with another program to start with, If I only knew this was how Logos was going to treat their "valued" customers!

Larry

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JT (alabama24)

I love logos and have used it for years but I am tiered of the way the milk you with the upgrades.

Logos stays in business by selling base packages. The software is ALWAYS free... you pay for the resources. If you don't want to purchase a new base package, that is fine. You can get a FREE update to your software engine in February. If you want NEW resources, you will need to pay. If you want the new features which require new datasets, you will need to pay. If you don't want to pay for anything, you will get the free new features in February. Why are you upset with that?

Matthew C Jones

I am on my third upgrade and now they want me to buy another. (Logos 6) My calculations are that i have spent almost 5K with them and now it is upgrade time again. I QUIT!!!

You know the upgrade is free, don't you? You only pay for resources. I have bought over $50K of resources but ever spent a dime on the search engine.

Rosie Perera

Larry, I wonder how much you've spent over a lifetime on print-based books? (I'm guessing it's a lot more than $5000. That would be just 200 books at average book prices. You probably have more than that.) So with Logos, just think of it as continuing your book buying habits but moving to a digital platform instead. The cost is not for the software, it's for the resources. If you want to stop adding to your library, that is totally your prerogative. Logos will continue to work with your existing library on into the future, though you might find it's kind of like having stopped building your print-based library at a certain point and just sitting with what you already had.

Mike McKnelly

Larry,

I have Logos Silver five and a lot of extra books that I purchased separately. I didn't want any new books so I purchased the feature crossgrade for $175 I think that's pretty reasonable for all the new features.

Mike

Milkman

Yup engines are free. You don't have to buy if you don't want. I'm around 30K for books.

Why so angry?

I'm not sure I like the idea of "milking" for upgrades and that's in the humble opinion of me, the milkman.

Good luck, it really is a great program and every single person I ever talked to on the phone or by email or chat has been nothing but professional and have our best interests at heart. We are valued because it is us who makes them money. I treat my customers the same way, without them I don't get paid.

Once again, give them a shot.

I love logos and have used it for years but I am tiered of the way the milk you with the upgrades. I am on my third upgrade and now they want me to buy another. (Logos 6) My calculations are that i have spent almost 5K with them and now it is upgrade time again. I QUIT!!! You would think they would value their customers for more than milking their money. I guess it works great for them but not for the customer.

I am an apple user and their latest upgrade was free. They are into customer service and their last upgrade was $20, Logos 6 is asking me for $1300+ to make the across the board upgrade. Thanks, but I am done, I wish I would have gone with another program to start with, If I only knew this was how Logos was going to treat their "valued" customers!

Larry

Matt Zimmerman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/657050#Comment_657050

I personally think Logos makes the whole upgrade process very confusing. I understand it now but a year ago I had the same feelings as Larry. Maybe the best thing for Logos to do is divorce these packages from the updated software. Make the software versions available for free immediately but then sell a 2014-2015 library 'new resource upgrade' for each tier. I think this would make much more sense and reduce confusion for some people.

Lee

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/657074#Comment_657074

[Y] Zimmerman makes a good point.

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/657074#Comment_657074

I personally think Logos makes the whole upgrade process very confusing. I understand it now but a year ago I had the same feelings as Larry. Maybe the best thing for Logos to do is divorce these packages from the updated software. Make the software versions available for free immediately but then sell a 2014-2015 library 'new resource upgrade' for each tier. I think this would make much more sense and reduce confusion for some people.

Matt, part of their rationale for having the free engine later IS so that people will spend money, which helps them not just stay afloat, but grow. Delaying the free engine takes advantage of our desire for new things and willingness to spend money somewhere--and they would like our money. But we don't have to spend it and they don't require us to spend it on the engine, if we are able to wait.

I kind of get the "big bad company" perception that "we" get (not saying you have that perception, Matt, but I know I have gotten it before, and it sounds like a few on this forum get it occasionally), especially when I am faced with spending money when money is tight. But we don't have to spend the money, because Logos provides excellent support of their product and really probably has better support than many to keep the past engines available as well as making the new engines free. I have found them to be quite responsive as a company, and quite conscientious in their dealings with customers.

I have had years where I spent thousands and years where I may have spent next to nothing. I get excited each time a new version comes out, and have really been thankful for how cool the product is getting. I mean, I really, really like it! But I always encounter that I cannot buy nearly as much as I want to.

Peace out.

Doc B

I wish I would have gone with another program to start with, If I only knew this was how Logos was going to treat their "valued" customers!

I understand your frustration with how some parts of Logos marketing happens. I've expressed a few frustrations myself on the forums, and have gotten generally skewered for them like you have here. I'm still in, but just barely.

If you are done, get out now before you spend any more money, or you'll just become more and more frustrated.

DMB

The key to remember is that Logos is a book company. The program is the bait. Each time a forum member ooohs and aaahs over buying 'packages' or basically anything I don't need, I'm pleased as punch. Big bucks to pay for the free program I use.

It's kind of like if Six Flags Over Texas demanded you buy tickets, but only if you want to ride on the new ones. If you're happy with the old rides, they let you in free. But you have to arrive in a new-ish car. No clunkers.

MJ. Smith

I am an apple user and their latest upgrade was free. They are into customer service and their last upgrade was $20, Logos 6 is asking me for $1300+ to make the across the board upgrade.

Larry

A number of my essential programs charge an annual fee for "free" upgrades. At least one has no upgrade, one has to purchase each time. If you calculated an across the board $1300 to upgrade, I suspect a misunderstanding. There is no reason to "upgrade" any base package unless there are resources in the package that you want at the price offered. If you think that you need to stay at the same package name, say L5 Gold to L6 Gold, there is no reason to do so unless (1) it is cheaper than the purchasing of the datasets as a cross-grade or (b) you really want the resources that are in L6 but not L5. And if the functions that are supported by the new datasets are not useful to you, you needn't even buy them. Yes, the $600 for the new feature is a bit steep compared to the past ... but it is less than half the figure you offer.

I will grant you that Logos marketing techniques can be annoying and that many people have trouble really understanding their options when upgrades occur. Again the options are:

Do nothing now but sometime after February move to the new engine so that you get continued product support, bugs fixes etc. Some new enhancements to features will come simply because they are basic to the L6 engine.
Purchase a cross-grade package of datasets which adds new functionality introduced in L6
Take advantage of the introductory prices to upgrade one or more of your base packages if you want the additional resources or it is cheaper than option 2 (which for me was definitely true).

Don Awalt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/657097#Comment_657097

gotten generally skewered for them like you have here

Just curious, what comment would you consider "skewered"?

Lee

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/657116#Comment_657116

Doc B is saying he's gotten "skewered“ for expressing some of his frustrations.

GaoLu

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/657116#Comment_657116

Listen to the Milkman. If anyone should know, he should!

I have paid quite a bit for Logos. About the same per year as I had been for paper books. Plus I get so many free books. It's almost more like I am milking Logos.

I have something like 500 free books from Logos (Based on community tags labeled "free," is that possible? ) which must be worth in the neighborhood of $4,000+ at $8 /book. Is my math way off? Wow! Maybe I am a milkman too.

Don Awalt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/657121#Comment_657121

Doc B is saying he's gotten "skewered“ for expressing some of his frustrations.

Actually not - I was asking about the "like you have here". He implies the OP here has gotten skewered, and I was wondering where. Thanks.

Matt Zimmerman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/657091#Comment_657091

I personally think Logos makes the whole upgrade process very confusing. I understand it now but a year ago I had the same feelings as Larry. Maybe the best thing for Logos to do is divorce these packages from the updated software. Make the software versions available for free immediately but then sell a 2014-2015 library 'new resource upgrade' for each tier. I think this would make much more sense and reduce confusion for some people.

Matt, part of their rationale for having the free engine later IS so that people will spend money, which helps them not just stay afloat, but grow. Delaying the free engine takes advantage of our desire for new things and willingness to spend money somewhere--and they would like our money. But we don't have to spend it and they don't require us to spend it on the engine, if we are able to wait.

I kind of get the "big bad company" perception that "we" get (not saying you have that perception, Matt, but I know I have gotten it before, and it sounds like a few on this forum get it occasionally), especially when I am faced with spending money when money is tight. But we don't have to spend the money, because Logos provides excellent support of their product and really probably has better support than many to keep the past engines available as well as making the new engines free. I have found them to be quite responsive as a company, and quite conscientious in their dealings with customers.

I have had years where I spent thousands and years where I may have spent next to nothing. I get excited each time a new version comes out, and have really been thankful for how cool the product is getting. I mean, I really, really like it! But I always encounter that I cannot buy nearly as much as I want to.

Peace out.

I understand the business rationale, but I can relate to the degree of confusion some experience. The frustration some see with version number changes and then hundreds to seemingly 'maintain' your current package when in reality you are paying for new resources is easy to misunderstand. Most every new feature in a new release is tied to new media and new data sets. So release the new software free immediately and build in highlights in the software that shows what the new features are and what people will get if they buy at minimum the crossgrade. For this current release I had no clue what eactly what was included in detail. I had to scroll to the first twenty posts of this fourm topic to see in detail what those new features were. If Logos released it free but without the new data sets and media we could then get a better feel for what we missing out on. Just my .02

Lee

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/657116#Comment_657116

gotten generally skewered for them like you have here

Just curious, what comment would you consider "skewered"?

A "skewered“ comment is not quite the same as a "skewered" person! [:P]

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/657114#Comment_657114

there is no reason to do so unless (1) it is cheaper than the purchasing of the datasets

Some people want the datasets included with the free upgrade. THAT is what the OP is complaining about. Get out the skewers.

Tom Reynolds

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/657160#Comment_657160

I think we've missed the point here - a customer is someone who buys what you're selling. A valuable customer is one who keeps buying your product when they feel a need for it. If you don't have a need for Logos 6 then there's no need to buy it but of course Logos has spent a lot of time and money creating new features in the expectation that you will feel the need to purchase more of their product, i.e. upgrade/crossgrade. But if you don't purchase more you still have the product you've already bought.

A truly valuable customer buys your product, loves it, and tells all their friends to buy it as well. Oh and they wait up until 6am to buy your latest offering, even when you already own their product. Sound like Apple? They sell hardware, Logos sells new resources and datasets.

Rene Atchley

I love logos and have used it for years but I am tiered of the way the milk you with the upgrades. I am on my third upgrade and now they want me to buy another. (Logos 6) My calculations are that i have spent almost 5K with them and now it is upgrade time again. I QUIT!!! You would think they would value their customers for more than milking their money. I guess it works great for them but not for the customer.

I am an apple user and their latest upgrade was free. They are into customer service and their last upgrade was $20, Logos 6 is asking me for $1300+ to make the across the board upgrade. Thanks, but I am done, I wish I would have gone with another program to start with, If I only knew this was how Logos was going to treat their "valued" customers!

Larry

I feel your frustration with the Logos brand and their management of upgrades. The pricing structure of these products has left me very alienated from the company with a strong sense that their corporate strength is mostly marketing. Yet with the bible market contraction in the last few years it makes me wonder what other options are there but the Logos brand. So I keep my license (which is all we truly have) and upgrade every 3-5 years by not spending money on anything but what I need or alternating generations of base software. The mistake I made in seminary was going digital with my library...that is one decision that I do regret. My advice...not that you asked. Buy no more than the minimal library you need every other generation of updates and download the free "engine" between the purchases. At least until someone else buys the company and changes the update schema.

Donald McNeeley

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/657050#Comment_657050

Concur totally ... I am very selective on what resources I now buy (being at Platinum) I have all the general biblical resources I desire and I am now concentrating on just my interest fields.

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/657141#Comment_657141

The frustration some see with version number changes and then hundreds to seemingly 'maintain' your current package

I remember when Logos 5 came out, I had already bought Portfolio in L4. I was a little miffed that I now had to "downgrade" to Platinum or Gold or whatever I ended up getting. I was kinda proud (and chagrined!) that I had "achieved" Portfolio. It was a very hefty purchase for me. I know I still have those same resources plus many more through my L5 and L6 upgrades, but . . . still! [;)]

For this current release I had no clue what eactly what was included in detail. I had to scroll to the first twenty posts of this fourm topic to see in detail what those new features were.

yeah, it is hard to wrap our minds around that and experience what all the fuss is about without actually using the features.

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/657141#Comment_657141

(sorry, I clicked post before being truly done, now, on with it:)

. If Logos released it free but without the new data sets and media we could then get a better feel for what we missing out on.

It might be hard to replicate the experience of any of that without the date sets to make it function. Your are not missing out that much by not having the L6 engine, you are mostly merely gaining updated software that will be more compatible going forward.

Just my .02

I liked your .02. you could even through in another .03 if you like.

I am a little curious how much things would change for Logos if they just made the engine free from the start. But I know I am more likely to buy because I like the new shiny toys and more books, and I want it NOW.

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/657166#Comment_657166

The mistake I made in seminary was going digital with my library.

Rene, I sometimes wonder about my investing so much in digital library, because it IS so dependent on technology and assumes that we will a) always have it, and b) that we can keep it up-to-date. And I sometimes miss leafing through a book (I still get some hard copies, for sure) But my question is still there.

But I sure as heck don't miss filling up one or two old apple boxes full of my ISBE, "Colin Brown", a few select commentaries, Komputer Konkordanz, etc etc. when I needed to go somewhere and work on my sermon. It is so stinkin' cool just to take my laptop, or ipad. I still get giddy about that, and it has been nearly 20 years . . . . [8-|]

Matt Zimmerman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/657166#Comment_657166

The mistake I made in seminary was going digital with my library...that is one decision that I do regret.

I have not attended seminary and so I am curious, what did you not like about a digital library? I have some duplicate resources - in both physical format and on Logos and I find the ability to simply click on a cited verse incredibly useful. Before Logos it was an utter pain! Now, if I want to check how a commentator is supporting an argument all I need to do is simply tap my finger to go to the appropriate verse.

Rene Atchley

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/657204#Comment_657204

In a general sense I made the mistake of transferring my tangible resources into literally nothing...a few electrons maybe. While I have some 2900 resources most of those are junk that just litters my hard drive instead of items that taught me how to think theologically. This junk includes lots of old materials, limited diversity of opinions, and books that have no application to my ministry. So when I did my D. Min. I expected to find the theological books that could be easily used in writing my thesis. Of course since Logos doesn't have primary sources for Liberation Theology, Paul Tillich, or Process theology (that I am/was aware of) I had to purchase books anyway. In my mind what's the point of having a super premium sports car that has a high cost when it can't carry the groceries home from the store.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/657218#Comment_657218

I agree that a first rate research library should be a priority.

Jack Caviness

I am an apple user and their latest upgrade was free.

Your logic has one flaw. Apple is in the business of selling hardware. The free system upgrades continue to make the hardware attractive to buyers.

Logos also give the engine free.

Kevin A. Purcell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/657298#Comment_657298

This post is a troll. Please don't feed the trolls.

It's telling that there are now two of these in two forums and narry a response from the OP.

Joel

I love logos and have used it for years but I am tiered of the way the milk you with the upgrades. I am on my third upgrade and now they want me to buy another. (Logos 6) My calculations are that i have spent almost 5K with them and now it is upgrade time again. I QUIT!!! You would think they would value their customers for more than milking their money. I guess it works great for them but not for the customer.

I am an apple user and their latest upgrade was free. They are into customer service and their last upgrade was $20, Logos 6 is asking me for $1300+ to make the across the board upgrade. Thanks, but I am done, I wish I would have gone with another program to start with, If I only knew this was how Logos was going to treat their "valued" customers!

Larry

Sometimes I wonder if Jesus would overturn the tables of Logos if the times were different, but we have brains and the ability to practice patience. No one's forcing you to buy anything. Just enjoy what you have if you can't afford more, and be thankful for it. Previous versions of Logos are no less helpful than they were the day you bought them.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/657319#Comment_657319

Uh oh. The OP did say 'I quit' (in upper-case I think but maybe not .... oh wait ... it's right above my post). But the Logosian wolfpack has been aroused. And they're sounding a bit 'negative' and 'unhappy'. "Troll"

Mike Childs

The "upgrade" price you speak of is for the new books and data sets. Just to get the Logos 6 engine is, or in a few weeks will be, free.

I understand your frustration, but books are expensive, whether in paper or electronic format. A lot of that is the publisher who charges as much as possible for Logos to make available their books.

However, Logos does not twist anyone's arm, and if you are happy with the Logos that you have, don't spend another cent. There is no need to. In fact, the list of what I will buy is getting smaller and smaller, as my library has grown. There is not a whole lot more that I want / need.

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/657328#Comment_657328

Uh oh. The OP did say 'I quit' (in upper-case I think but maybe not .... oh wait ... it's right above my post). But the Logosian wolfpack has been aroused. And they're sounding a bit 'negative' and 'unhappy'. "Troll"

Denise, lol, you crack me up! [:D] I'm thinking you'd make a great football (read: "soccer") fan to join up at the pub with after a rousing couple of hours cheering and jeering on the home team.

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/657218#Comment_657218

In a general sense I made the mistake of transferring my tangible resources into literally nothing...a few electrons maybe. While I have some 2900 resources most of those are junk that just litters my hard drive instead of items that taught me how to think theologically. This junk includes lots of old materials, limited diversity of opinions, and books that have no application to my ministry. So when I did my D. Min. I expected to find the theological books that could be easily used in writing my thesis. Of course since Logos doesn't have primary sources for Liberation Theology, Paul Tillich, or Process theology (that I am/was aware of) I had to purchase books anyway. In my mind what's the point of having a super premium sports car that has a high cost when it can't carry the groceries home from the store.

I hear you. I was delighted when New Interpreter’s Bible (12 vols.) made it to Logos although not a radical commentary it offers a good balance for the typical volumes offered by Logos. That said it is the only full set of physical volumes I have in my paper library (one might say I have a full set of NDSB gospels, but to me this boxed set seems to be simply a part of the larger 18 volumes of Barclay). I hope that one day Faithlife can offer more variety but in the end this may be very hard since prePub requires a significant number of users to get behind a product and in the end it seemed near impossible to get the numbers needed for the NIB (we likely still would not have it had not Abingdon redid the databases that allowed Logos to process the work more inexpensively).

-Dan

Alan Macgregor

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/657445#Comment_657445

I have read the posts in this thread so far and am a bit perplexed by some of them. As far as I am aware, no one is forced to do anything by Logos introducing upgrades to their digital library system.

There are many people who are still happily using Libronix (aka Logos 3), though Logos stopped producing new resources for it some time ago. (During Libronix's time I had gradually built up to the Gold library.)

Others are still happily using Logos 4. It still works as well as it ever did. (During the 3 year cycle of Logos 4 I upgraded to the Platinum package)

Logos 5 is the same as it ever was. (With Logos 5 I just got the crossgrade, as I decided I did not require to "upgrade" to Logos 5 Platinum. Instead over time I added some additional resources WBC; Hermeneia and a number of linguistic/language resources.

Now Logos 6 has arrived with its 64-bit engine and after looking at the cost of "upgrading" and the additional resources on offer, I decided to buy the extended crossgrade, which gives me all the datasets and a number of resources for enhancements.

Now that is my personal decision. Logos did not twist my arm to do otherwise. But what they have done is provide me with updated resources over many years. Initially, back in 1993 with Logos 1.6, I had only NIV Anglicised, NA 26 and BHS. These resources have been updated, retagged, corrected, etc. and they still work with Logos 6. That is true for all the resources I bought in Logos 2.0, Libronix, Logos 4 and Logos 5. Those enhanced resources have been provided for me at no additional cost. Instead I have improved functionality and the additional tools added in recent months and years.

FWIW: I am a canny Scot. I don't impulse buy, I scan the Community Pricing pages (a bit like the way I used to browse secondhand Christian bookshops) and bid what I am prepared to pay, I order PrePubs that I decide I want. I have reduced my print library by giving my print books away to younger ministers, and, via third parties, to overseas seminaries and pastors. I now have only about 200 or so print books. Even these I'll have to dispose of during the coming two years as I prepare to downsize from a Church of Scotland manse to my fisherman's cottage on the Moray Firth coast, when I retire from full-time ministry on reaching 70. When that day comes, DV, I'll still have my Logos library to use there for occasional sermon preparation, for academic study and writing. And I've decided that when I'm gone to glory my Logos library will go to a younger minister friend (and probably in the fulness of time to his son who is studying theology and biblical studies at St Andrews University).

I reckon that Logos is a good, flexible and portable investment which has enabled me to do so much that I could never have achieved using print resources alone. I have to say that without Logos, preparing 2 different sermons a week and 2 different bible studies every week would have absorbed all my study time. With Logos I was able to prepare those sermons and bible studies and still have time over six years to research and write a thesis in New Testament for my PhD from the University of Aberdeen.

Now for some of you, your circumstances may be completely different from mine. Fair enough! But I would say that Logos provides the flexibility to tailor your Logos digital library system to suit your needs and wallet.

I hope you find in Logos, as I have, a toolkit and resources to enable a deeper study of God's Word than you would have dreamed possible … but more importantly to help you to know Him better and love Him more.

Every blessing

Alan

Rene Atchley

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/657567#Comment_657567

Perhaps the key to fully appreciating the power of Logos is to prepare for a world of academia with some minor ministerial activities on the side. The power. The abilities. The insight. The magnitude of knowledge at ones finger tips. Truly an amazing instrument. It has a place and a purpose for many who serve the Kingdom of God. Yet I am not sure that the followers of Jesus after his resurrected needed a year extended payment plan with cutting edge cloud technology to serve our Master...but I could be wrong.

Kent

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/657685#Comment_657685

Sorry, I don't understand why people complain when a company comes out with a better product.

Some complain when their cell phone become passé because it is no longer the latest and greatest thing out there.

I hope Logos keeps improving as fast as they can even if I can't afford the latest and greatest packages.

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/657685#Comment_657685

Yet I am not sure that the followers of Jesus after his resurrected needed a year extended payment plan with cutting edge cloud technology to serve our Master...but I could be wrong.

I am perceiving this as a real soul level question tinged with a bit of cynicism, and I think it is fair--in that we do well to evaluate our use of time and money. Is this arising from your own questions and personal struggle?

As for me, I question my use of money to buy Logos. But I am also very grateful for it and have found it useful for a multiplicity of settings and personal needs in church work, chaplaincy, personal growth, research, etc.

Rene, bless you, and may what you have be beneficial and be used by God in some way.

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/657714#Comment_657714

Sorry, I don't understand why people complain when a company comes out with a better product.

it never fails, does it? I am not sure I have encountered ANYthing that people don't complain with. I am sure I have complained too~!

Some complain when their cell phone become passé

I just upgraded to the latest Cupertino product after years of languishing with a Korean flip phone that had loveable little quirks like shutting off all on its own, for no reason that I could tell. I got a nice talk/text/data deal, unlimited, after years of 450 shared talk minutes, no text. I am blowing through data and text already.

I hope Logos keeps improving as fast as they can even if I can't afford the latest and greatest packages.

here i disagree--i'd rather be able to afford it. (but, alas, I don't always) peace to you, Kent!

John Duffy

I love logos and have used it for years but I am tiered of the way the milk you with the upgrades. I am on my third upgrade and now they want me to buy another. (Logos 6) My calculations are that i have spent almost 5K with them and now it is upgrade time again. I QUIT!!! You would think they would value their customers for more than milking their money. I guess it works great for them but not for the customer.

I am an apple user and their latest upgrade was free. They are into customer service and their last upgrade was $20, Logos 6 is asking me for $1300+ to make the across the board upgrade. Thanks, but I am done, I wish I would have gone with another program to start with, If I only knew this was how Logos was going to treat their "valued" customers!

Larry

Hi Larry, I understand where you are coming from, as there is a great temptation to just buy more and more, even if we don't need it. And Logos/Faithlife needs to sell more and more to stay in business.

As others have pointed out, Logos does provides a free 'engine' upgrade, although delayed a few months from a paid upgrade. It's a reasonable business model. We don't have to pay if we don't want to, if we wait for a few months. But if we want more great datasets, a paid crossgrade is needed, or a base package upgrade for more resources too, which are both fair. If Apple were giving away lots of paid-for media content for free on upgrades (as they did with U2's latest album recently), then maybe there'd be more pressure on Logos to give away datasets or resources for free (although publishers might have a thing or two to say about that).

But the main thing I wanted to note is that although upgrades can be expensive in terms of price, they are probably the least costly way overall to expand a library. They are far more cost effective than buying resources individually, or even with substantial discounts during the year. And without crunching the numbers I believe they are far better value than community pricing too. Instead of seeing upgrades simply as an opportunity to fork out more money to keep 'up to date', I tend to see them as opportunities to significantly expand my library at a substantial discount. I only purchase what I believe I will benefit from, though, and this time I found more of value in one of the new bundles, although I did also upgrade to the same base package as I had in Logos 5 because there were resources/datasets included in the base package that I saw value in too.

Looking at it another way too, those who purchase base package upgrades are keeping Logos/Faithlife in business so that anyone who wants an engine upgrade can have it for free.

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/657781#Comment_657781

It's important both to think about what one will have time to use, and to reach a level where You do research:

there is a great temptation to just buy more and more, even if we don't need it.

That can be a good aproach. My current plan (but later today I'll calculate whether I'll do it at all or not) is to "downgrade" one of the base-packages (Verbum) and to buy a denominational one that I don't own since before at Silver level (Anglican), and three small Topical Bundles (two medium, one small). When L5 came out there weren't many choices and the Standard base-packages don't appeal to me and I have a few resources from the Standard base-packages in Accordance and/or am going to aquire:

I only purchase what I believe I will benefit from, though, and this time I found more of value in one of the new bundles, although I did also upgrade to the same base package as I had in Logos 5 because there were resources/datasets included in the base package that I saw value in too.
Looking at it another way too, those who purchase base package upgrades are keeping Logos/Faithlife in business so that anyone who wants an engine upgrade can have it for free.