"Valued Customers"

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This post has 41 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 3
Larry Perry | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Nov 9 2014 12:54 PM

I love logos and have used it for years but I am tiered of the way the milk you with the upgrades.  I am on my third upgrade and now they want me to buy another. (Logos 6) My calculations are that i have spent almost 5K with them and now it is upgrade time again.  I QUIT!!! You would think they would value their customers for more than milking their money.  I guess it works great for them but not for the customer.  

I am an apple user and their latest upgrade was free. They are into customer service and their last upgrade was $20, Logos 6 is asking me for $1300+ to make the across the board upgrade.  Thanks, but I am done, I wish I would have gone with another program to start with, If I only knew this was how Logos was going to treat their "valued" customers!  

Larry

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 9 2014 12:59 PM

Larry Perry:
I love logos and have used it for years but I am tiered of the way the milk you with the upgrades.

Logos stays in business by selling base packages. The software is ALWAYS free... you pay for the resources. If you don't want to purchase a new base package, that is fine. You can get a FREE update to your software engine in February. If you want NEW resources, you will need to pay. If you want the new features which require new datasets, you will need to pay. If you don't want to pay for anything, you will get the free new features in February. Why are you upset with that?

macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs |  Install

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 9 2014 1:02 PM

Larry Perry:
 I am on my third upgrade and now they want me to buy another. (Logos 6) My calculations are that i have spent almost 5K with them and now it is upgrade time again.  I QUIT!!!

You know the upgrade is free, don't you? You only pay for resources. I have bought over $50K of resources but ever spent a dime on the search engine.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 9 2014 1:07 PM

Larry, I wonder how much you've spent over a lifetime on print-based books? (I'm guessing it's a lot more than $5000. That would be just 200 books at average book prices. You probably have more than that.) So with Logos, just think of it as continuing your book buying habits but moving to a digital platform instead. The cost is not for the software, it's for the resources. If you want to stop adding to your library, that is totally your prerogative. Logos will continue to work with your existing library on into the future, though you might find it's kind of like having stopped building your print-based library at a certain point and just sitting with what you already had.

Posts 313
Mike McKnelly | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 9 2014 1:19 PM

Larry, 

I have Logos Silver five and a lot of extra books that I purchased separately. I didn't want any new books so I purchased the feature crossgrade for $175 I think that's pretty reasonable for all the new features.

Mike

Posts 3703
Milkman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 9 2014 1:54 PM

Yup engines are free. You don't have to buy if you don't want. I'm around 30K for books.

Why so angry?

I'm not sure I like the idea of "milking" for upgrades and that's in the humble opinion of me, the milkman.

Good luck, it really is a great program and every single person I ever talked to on the phone or by email or chat has been nothing but professional and have our best interests at heart. We are valued because it is us who makes them money. I treat my customers the same way, without them I don't get paid.

Once again, give them a shot.

Larry Perry:

I love logos and have used it for years but I am tiered of the way the milk you with the upgrades.  I am on my third upgrade and now they want me to buy another. (Logos 6) My calculations are that i have spent almost 5K with them and now it is upgrade time again.  I QUIT!!! You would think they would value their customers for more than milking their money.  I guess it works great for them but not for the customer.  

I am an apple user and their latest upgrade was free. They are into customer service and their last upgrade was $20, Logos 6 is asking me for $1300+ to make the across the board upgrade.  Thanks, but I am done, I wish I would have gone with another program to start with, If I only knew this was how Logos was going to treat their "valued" customers!  

Larry

mm.

Posts 133
Matt Zimmerman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 9 2014 1:55 PM

I personally think Logos makes the whole upgrade process very confusing. I understand it now but a year ago I had the same feelings as Larry. Maybe the best thing for Logos to do is divorce these packages from the updated software. Make the software versions available for free immediately but then sell a 2014-2015 library 'new resource upgrade' for each tier. I think this would make much more sense and reduce confusion for some people.

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Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 9 2014 2:05 PM

Yes Zimmerman makes a good point.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 9 2014 2:44 PM

Matt Zimmerman:

I personally think Logos makes the whole upgrade process very confusing. I understand it now but a year ago I had the same feelings as Larry. Maybe the best thing for Logos to do is divorce these packages from the updated software. Make the software versions available for free immediately but then sell a 2014-2015 library 'new resource upgrade' for each tier. I think this would make much more sense and reduce confusion for some people.

Matt, part of their rationale for having the free engine later IS so that people will spend money, which helps them not just stay afloat, but grow. Delaying the free engine takes advantage of our desire for new things and willingness to spend money somewhere--and they would like our money.  But we don't have to spend it and they don't require us to spend it on the engine, if we are able to wait.

I kind of get the "big bad company" perception that "we" get (not saying you have that perception, Matt, but I know I have gotten it before, and it sounds like a few on this forum get it occasionally), especially when I am faced with spending money when money is tight.  But we don't have to spend the money, because Logos provides excellent support of their product and really probably has better support than many to keep the past engines available as well as making the new engines free.  I have found them to be quite responsive as a company, and quite conscientious in their dealings with customers. 

I have had years where I spent thousands and years where I may have spent next to nothing.  I get excited each time a new version comes out, and have really been thankful for how cool the product is getting.  I mean, I really, really like it!  But I always encounter that I cannot buy nearly as much as I want to.

Peace out.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 3053
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 9 2014 2:56 PM

Larry Perry:
I wish I would have gone with another program to start with, If I only knew this was how Logos was going to treat their "valued" customers!

I understand your frustration with how some parts of Logos marketing happens. I've expressed a few frustrations myself on the forums, and have gotten generally skewered for them like you have here. I'm still in, but just barely.

If you are done, get out now before you spend any more money, or you'll just become more and more frustrated.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 9 2014 3:13 PM

The key to remember is that Logos is a book company.  The program is the bait.  Each time a forum member ooohs and aaahs over buying 'packages' or basically anything I don't need, I'm pleased as punch.  Big bucks to pay for the free program I use.  

It's kind of like if Six Flags Over Texas demanded you buy tickets, but only if you want to ride on the new ones.  If you're happy with the old rides, they let you in free.  But you have to arrive in a new-ish car.  No clunkers.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 9 2014 3:32 PM

Larry Perry:

I am an apple user and their latest upgrade was free. They are into customer service and their last upgrade was $20, Logos 6 is asking me for $1300+ to make the across the board upgrade.   

Larry

A number of my essential programs charge an annual fee for "free" upgrades. At least one has no upgrade, one has to purchase each time. If you calculated an across the board $1300 to upgrade, I suspect a misunderstanding. There is no reason to "upgrade" any base package unless there are resources in the package that you want at the price offered. If you think that you need to stay at the same package name, say L5 Gold to L6 Gold, there is no reason to do so unless (1) it is cheaper than the purchasing of the datasets as a cross-grade or (b) you really want the resources that are in L6 but not L5. And if the functions that are supported by the new datasets are not useful to you, you needn't even buy them. Yes, the $600 for the new feature is a bit steep compared to the past ... but it is less than half the figure you offer.

I will grant you that Logos marketing techniques can be annoying and that many people have trouble really understanding their options when upgrades occur. Again the options are:

  1. Do nothing now but sometime after February move to the new engine so that you get continued product support, bugs fixes etc. Some new enhancements to features will come simply because they are basic to the L6 engine.
  2. Purchase a cross-grade package of datasets which adds new functionality introduced in L6
  3. Take advantage of the introductory prices to upgrade one or more of your base packages if you want the additional resources or it is cheaper than option 2 (which for me was definitely true).

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 2830
Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 9 2014 3:36 PM

Doc B:
gotten generally skewered for them like you have here

Just curious, what comment would you consider "skewered"?

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Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 9 2014 3:45 PM

Doc B is saying he's gotten "skewered“ for expressing some of his frustrations.

Posts 2333
GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 9 2014 4:08 PM

Listen to the Milkman.  If anyone should know, he should!  

I have paid quite a bit for Logos. About the same per year as I had been for paper books.  Plus I get so many free books.  It's almost more like I am milking Logos.  

I have something like 500 free books from Logos (Based on community tags labeled "free," is that possible? ) which must be worth in the neighborhood of $4,000+ at $8 /book.  Is my math way off?  Wow!  Maybe I am a milkman too.  

Posts 2830
Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 9 2014 4:27 PM

Lee:

Doc B is saying he's gotten "skewered“ for expressing some of his frustrations.

Actually not - I was asking about the "like you have here". He implies the OP here has gotten skewered, and I was wondering where. Thanks.

Posts 133
Matt Zimmerman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 9 2014 4:37 PM

Dan DeVilder:

Matt Zimmerman:

I personally think Logos makes the whole upgrade process very confusing. I understand it now but a year ago I had the same feelings as Larry. Maybe the best thing for Logos to do is divorce these packages from the updated software. Make the software versions available for free immediately but then sell a 2014-2015 library 'new resource upgrade' for each tier. I think this would make much more sense and reduce confusion for some people.

Matt, part of their rationale for having the free engine later IS so that people will spend money, which helps them not just stay afloat, but grow. Delaying the free engine takes advantage of our desire for new things and willingness to spend money somewhere--and they would like our money.  But we don't have to spend it and they don't require us to spend it on the engine, if we are able to wait.

I kind of get the "big bad company" perception that "we" get (not saying you have that perception, Matt, but I know I have gotten it before, and it sounds like a few on this forum get it occasionally), especially when I am faced with spending money when money is tight.  But we don't have to spend the money, because Logos provides excellent support of their product and really probably has better support than many to keep the past engines available as well as making the new engines free.  I have found them to be quite responsive as a company, and quite conscientious in their dealings with customers. 

I have had years where I spent thousands and years where I may have spent next to nothing.  I get excited each time a new version comes out, and have really been thankful for how cool the product is getting.  I mean, I really, really like it!  But I always encounter that I cannot buy nearly as much as I want to.

Peace out.

I understand the business rationale, but I can relate to the degree of confusion some experience. The frustration some see with version number changes and then hundreds to seemingly 'maintain' your current package when in reality you are paying for new resources is easy to misunderstand. Most every new feature in a new release is tied to new media and new data sets. So release the new software free immediately and build in highlights in the software that shows what the new features are and what people will get if they buy at minimum the crossgrade. For this current release I had no clue what eactly what was included in detail. I had to scroll to the first twenty posts of this fourm topic to see in detail what those new features were. If Logos released it free but without the new data sets and media we could then get a better feel for what we missing out on. Just my .02

Posts 2589
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 9 2014 5:13 PM

Don Awalt:

Doc B:
gotten generally skewered for them like you have here

Just curious, what comment would you consider "skewered"?

A "skewered“ comment is not quite the same as a "skewered" person! Stick out tongue

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 9 2014 5:49 PM

MJ. Smith:
there is no reason to do so unless (1) it is cheaper than the purchasing of the datasets

Some people want the datasets included with the free upgrade. THAT is what the OP is complaining about.   Get out the skewers.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 1138
Tom Reynolds | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 9 2014 6:04 PM

I think we've missed the point here - a customer is someone who buys what you're selling. A valuable customer is one who keeps buying your product when they feel a need for it. If you don't have a need for Logos 6 then there's no need to buy it but of course Logos has spent a lot of time and money creating new features in the expectation that you will feel the need to purchase more of their product, i.e. upgrade/crossgrade. But if you don't purchase more you still have the product you've already bought.

A truly valuable customer buys your product, loves it, and tells all their friends to buy it as well. Oh and they wait up until 6am to buy your latest offering, even when you already own their product. Sound like Apple? They sell hardware, Logos sells new resources and datasets.

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