"Valued Customers"

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Posts 325
Rene Atchley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 9 2014 6:20 PM

Larry Perry:

I love logos and have used it for years but I am tiered of the way the milk you with the upgrades.  I am on my third upgrade and now they want me to buy another. (Logos 6) My calculations are that i have spent almost 5K with them and now it is upgrade time again.  I QUIT!!! You would think they would value their customers for more than milking their money.  I guess it works great for them but not for the customer.  

I am an apple user and their latest upgrade was free. They are into customer service and their last upgrade was $20, Logos 6 is asking me for $1300+ to make the across the board upgrade.  Thanks, but I am done, I wish I would have gone with another program to start with, If I only knew this was how Logos was going to treat their "valued" customers!  

Larry

I feel your frustration with the Logos brand and their management of upgrades.  The pricing structure of these products has left me very alienated from the company with a strong sense that their corporate strength is mostly marketing.  Yet with the bible market contraction in the last few years it makes me wonder what other options are there but the Logos brand.  So I keep my license (which is all we truly have) and upgrade every 3-5 years by not spending money on anything but what I need or alternating generations of base software. The mistake I made in seminary was going digital with my library...that is one decision that I do regret.  My advice...not that you asked.  Buy no more than the minimal library you need every other generation of updates and download the free "engine" between the purchases.  At least until someone else buys the company and changes the update schema.  

Posts 132
Donald McNeeley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 9 2014 6:37 PM

Concur totally ... I am very selective on what resources I now buy (being at Platinum) I have all the general biblical resources I desire and I am now concentrating on just my interest fields.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 9 2014 7:48 PM

Matt Zimmerman:
The frustration some see with version number changes and then hundreds to seemingly 'maintain' your current package

I remember when Logos 5 came out, I had already bought Portfolio in L4.  I was a little miffed that I now had to "downgrade" to Platinum or Gold or whatever I ended up getting.  I was kinda proud (and chagrined!) that I had "achieved" Portfolio.  It was a very hefty purchase for me.  I know I still have those same resources plus many more through my L5 and L6 upgrades, but . . . stillWink

Matt Zimmerman:
For this current release I had no clue what eactly what was included in detail. I had to scroll to the first twenty posts of this fourm topic to see in detail what those new features were.

yeah, it is hard to wrap our minds around that and experience what all the fuss is about without actually using the features.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 9 2014 7:55 PM

(sorry, I clicked post before being truly done, now, on with it:)

Matt Zimmerman:
. If Logos released it free but without the new data sets and media we could then get a better feel for what we missing out on.

It might be hard to replicate the experience of any of that without the date sets to make it function.  Your are not missing out that much by not having the L6 engine, you are mostly merely gaining updated software that will be more compatible going forward.

Matt Zimmerman:
Just my .02

I liked your .02.  you could even through in another .03 if you like. 

I am a little curious how much things would change for Logos if they just made the engine free from the start.  But I know I am more likely to buy because I like the new shiny toys and more books, and I want it NOW.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 9 2014 8:00 PM

Rene Atchley:
The mistake I made in seminary was going digital with my library.

Rene, I sometimes wonder about my investing so much in digital library, because it IS so dependent on technology and assumes that we will a) always have it, and b) that we can keep it up-to-date.  And I sometimes miss leafing through a book (I still get some hard copies, for sure)  But my question is still there. 

But I sure as heck don't miss filling up one or two old apple boxes full of my ISBE, "Colin Brown", a few select commentaries, Komputer Konkordanz, etc etc. when I needed to go somewhere and work on my sermon.  It is so stinkin' cool just to take my laptop, or ipad.  I still get giddy about that, and it has been nearly 20 years . . . . Geeked

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 133
Matt Zimmerman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 9 2014 8:55 PM

Rene Atchley:

The mistake I made in seminary was going digital with my library...that is one decision that I do regret.

I have not attended seminary and so I am curious, what did you not like about a digital library? I have some duplicate resources - in both physical format and on Logos and I find the ability to simply click on a cited verse incredibly useful. Before Logos it was an utter pain! Now, if I want to check how a commentator is supporting an argument all I need to do is simply tap my finger to go to the appropriate verse. 

Posts 325
Rene Atchley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 9 2014 10:27 PM

In a general sense I made the mistake of transferring my tangible resources into literally nothing...a few electrons maybe.  While I have some 2900 resources most of those are junk that just litters my hard drive instead of items that taught me how to think theologically.  This junk includes lots of old materials, limited diversity of opinions, and books that have no application to my ministry.  So when I did my D. Min. I expected to find the theological books that could be easily used in writing my thesis.  Of course since Logos doesn't have primary sources for Liberation Theology, Paul Tillich, or Process theology (that I am/was aware of) I had to purchase books anyway.  In my mind what's the point of having a super premium sports car that has a high cost when it can't carry the groceries home from the store.  

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 9 2014 11:28 PM

I agree that a first rate research library should be a priority.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 10821
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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 10 2014 5:55 AM

Larry Perry:
I am an apple user and their latest upgrade was free.

Your logic has one flaw. Apple is in the business of selling hardware. The free system upgrades continue to make the hardware attractive to buyers.

Logos also give the engine free.

Posts 2832
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 10 2014 6:22 AM

This post is a troll. Please don't feed the trolls.

It's telling that there are now two of these in two forums and narry a response from the OP.

Posts 134
Joel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 10 2014 6:40 AM

Larry Perry:

I love logos and have used it for years but I am tiered of the way the milk you with the upgrades.  I am on my third upgrade and now they want me to buy another. (Logos 6) My calculations are that i have spent almost 5K with them and now it is upgrade time again.  I QUIT!!! You would think they would value their customers for more than milking their money.  I guess it works great for them but not for the customer.  

I am an apple user and their latest upgrade was free. They are into customer service and their last upgrade was $20, Logos 6 is asking me for $1300+ to make the across the board upgrade.  Thanks, but I am done, I wish I would have gone with another program to start with, If I only knew this was how Logos was going to treat their "valued" customers!  

Larry

Sometimes I wonder if Jesus would overturn the tables of Logos if the times were different, but we have brains and the ability to practice patience. No one's forcing you to buy anything. Just enjoy what you have if you can't afford more, and be thankful for it. Previous versions of Logos are no less helpful than they were the day you bought them.

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 10 2014 6:56 AM

Uh oh.  The OP did say 'I quit' (in upper-case I think but maybe not .... oh wait ... it's right above my post). But the Logosian wolfpack has been aroused.  And they're sounding a bit 'negative' and 'unhappy'.  "Troll" 

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 2883
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 10 2014 7:17 AM

The "upgrade" price you speak of is for the new books and data sets.  Just to get the Logos 6 engine is, or in a few weeks will be, free.

I understand your frustration, but books are expensive, whether in paper or electronic format.  A lot of that is the publisher who charges as much as possible for Logos to make available their books.

However, Logos does not twist anyone's arm, and if you are happy with the Logos that you have, don't spend another cent.  There is no need to.  In fact, the list of what I will buy is getting smaller and smaller, as my library has grown.  There is not a whole lot more that I want / need.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 10 2014 7:24 AM

Denise:

Uh oh.  The OP did say 'I quit' (in upper-case I think but maybe not .... oh wait ... it's right above my post). But the Logosian wolfpack has been aroused.  And they're sounding a bit 'negative' and 'unhappy'.  "Troll" 

Denise, lol, you crack me up! Big Smile  I'm thinking you'd make a great football (read: "soccer") fan to join up at the pub with after a rousing couple of hours cheering and jeering on the home team. 

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 5318
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 10 2014 10:45 AM

Rene Atchley:
In a general sense I made the mistake of transferring my tangible resources into literally nothing...a few electrons maybe.  While I have some 2900 resources most of those are junk that just litters my hard drive instead of items that taught me how to think theologically.  This junk includes lots of old materials, limited diversity of opinions, and books that have no application to my ministry.  So when I did my D. Min. I expected to find the theological books that could be easily used in writing my thesis.  Of course since Logos doesn't have primary sources for Liberation Theology, Paul Tillich, or Process theology (that I am/was aware of) I had to purchase books anyway.  In my mind what's the point of having a super premium sports car that has a high cost when it can't carry the groceries home from the store.  

I hear you. I was delighted when New Interpreter’s Bible (12 vols.) made it to Logos although not a radical commentary it offers a good balance for the typical volumes offered by Logos.  That said it is the only full set of physical volumes I have in my paper library (one might say I have a full set of NDSB gospels, but to me this boxed set seems to be simply a part of the larger 18 volumes of Barclay). I hope that one day Faithlife can offer more variety but in the end this may be very hard since prePub requires a significant number of users to get behind a product and in the end it seemed near impossible to get the numbers needed for the NIB (we likely still would not have it had not Abingdon redid the databases that allowed Logos to process the work more inexpensively). 

-Dan

Posts 1875
Alan Macgregor | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 10 2014 2:07 PM

I have read the posts in this thread so far and am a bit perplexed by some of them. As far as I am aware, no one is forced to do anything by Logos introducing upgrades to their digital library system.

There are many people who are still happily using Libronix (aka Logos 3), though Logos stopped producing new resources for it some time ago. (During Libronix's time I had gradually built up to the Gold library.)

Others are still happily using Logos 4. It still works as well as it ever did. (During the 3 year cycle of Logos 4 I upgraded to the Platinum package)

Logos 5 is the same as it ever was. (With Logos 5 I just got the crossgrade, as I decided I did not require to "upgrade" to Logos 5 Platinum. Instead over time I added some additional resources WBC; Hermeneia and a number of linguistic/language resources.

Now Logos 6 has arrived with its 64-bit engine and after looking at the cost of "upgrading" and the additional resources on offer, I decided to buy the extended crossgrade, which gives me all the datasets and a number of resources for enhancements.

Now that is my personal decision. Logos did not twist my arm to do otherwise. But what they have done is provide me with updated resources over many years. Initially, back in 1993 with Logos 1.6, I had only NIV Anglicised, NA 26 and BHS. These resources have been updated, retagged, corrected, etc. and they still work with Logos 6. That is true for all the resources I bought in Logos 2.0, Libronix, Logos 4 and Logos 5. Those enhanced resources have been provided for me at no additional cost. Instead I have improved functionality and the additional tools added in recent months and years.

FWIW: I am a canny Scot. I don't impulse buy, I scan the Community Pricing pages (a bit like the way I used to browse secondhand Christian bookshops) and bid what I am prepared to pay, I order PrePubs that I decide I want. I have reduced my print library by giving my print books away to younger ministers, and, via third parties, to overseas seminaries and pastors. I now have only about 200 or so print books. Even these I'll have to dispose of during the coming two years as I prepare to downsize from a Church of Scotland manse to my fisherman's cottage on the Moray Firth coast, when I retire from full-time ministry on reaching 70. When that day comes, DV, I'll still have my Logos library to use there for occasional sermon preparation, for academic study and writing. And I've decided that when I'm gone to glory my Logos library will go to a younger minister friend (and probably in the fulness of time to his son who is studying theology and biblical studies at St Andrews University).

I reckon that Logos is a good, flexible and portable investment which has enabled me to do so much that I could never have achieved using print resources alone. I have to say that without Logos, preparing 2 different sermons a week and 2 different bible studies every week would have absorbed all my study time. With Logos I was able to prepare those sermons and bible studies and still have time over six years to research and write a thesis in New Testament for my PhD from the University of Aberdeen.

Now for some of you, your circumstances may be completely different from mine. Fair enough! But I would say that Logos provides the flexibility to tailor your Logos digital library system to suit your needs and wallet.

I hope you find in Logos, as I have, a toolkit and resources to enable a deeper study of God's Word than you would have dreamed possible … but more importantly to help you to know Him better and love Him more.

Every blessing

Alan

iMac Retina 5K, 27": 3.6GHz 8-Core Intel Core i9; 16GB RAM;MacOS 10.15.5; 1TB SSD; Logos 8

MacBook Air 13.3": 1.8GHz; 4GB RAM; MacOS 10.13.6; 256GB SSD; Logos 8

iPad Pro 32GB WiFi iOS 13.5.1

iPhone 8+ 64GB iOS 13.5.1

Posts 325
Rene Atchley | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 10 2014 6:22 PM

Perhaps the key to fully appreciating the power of Logos is to prepare for a world of academia with some minor ministerial activities on the side.  The power.  The abilities. The insight.  The magnitude of knowledge at ones finger tips. Truly an amazing instrument.  It has a place and a purpose for many who serve the Kingdom of God.  Yet I am not sure that the followers of Jesus after his resurrected needed a year extended payment plan with cutting edge cloud technology to serve our Master...but I could be wrong.

Posts 525
Kent | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 10 2014 7:18 PM

Sorry, I don't understand why people complain when a company comes out with a better product.

Some complain when their cell phone become passé because it is no longer the latest and greatest thing out there.

I hope Logos keeps improving as fast as they can even if I can't afford the latest and greatest packages.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 10 2014 8:39 PM

Rene Atchley:
Yet I am not sure that the followers of Jesus after his resurrected needed a year extended payment plan with cutting edge cloud technology to serve our Master...but I could be wrong.

I am perceiving this as a real soul level question tinged with a bit of cynicism, and I think it is fair--in that we do well to evaluate our use of time and money.  Is this arising from your own questions and personal struggle?

As for me, I question my use of money to buy Logos.  But I am also very grateful for it and have found it useful for a multiplicity of settings and personal needs in church work, chaplaincy, personal growth, research, etc. 

Rene, bless you, and may what you have be beneficial and be used by God in some way.

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 10 2014 8:44 PM

Kent:
Sorry, I don't understand why people complain when a company comes out with a better product.

it never fails, does it?  I am not sure I have encountered ANYthing that people don't complain with.  I am sure I have complained too~!

Kent:
Some complain when their cell phone become passé

I just upgraded to the latest Cupertino product after years of languishing with a Korean flip phone that had loveable little quirks like shutting off all on its own, for no reason that I could tell.  I got a nice talk/text/data deal, unlimited, after years of 450 shared talk minutes, no text.  I am blowing through data and text already.

Kent:
I hope Logos keeps improving as fast as they can even if I can't afford the latest and greatest packages.

here i disagree--i'd rather be able to afford it.  (but, alas, I don't always)  peace to you, Kent!

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

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