How do you search for Jesus referred to as a man?

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Rich | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Nov 11 2014 6:52 AM

I would like to search a bible referring to Jesus as a man. Any suggestions? Thank you

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Levi Durfey | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 11 2014 7:29 AM

Rich:
I would like to search a bible referring to Jesus as a man. Any suggestions?

That's a great question, Rich, and I am looking forward to someone answering it!

But I have a question for you. I am thinking of moving back to a macbook and was wondering what you noticed about the performance of Logos 6 on your iMac compared to your Macbook Air. I'd appreciate your insights.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 11 2014 7:41 AM

Rich:
I would like to search a bible referring to Jesus as a man. Any suggestions? Thank you

Not sure if this is what you are looking for but "Factbook - Referred to as" could be a good place to start

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Rich | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 11 2014 8:34 AM

Integ my Macbook Air runs Logos 6 perfectly and is very fast. I take it to school. When at home I use my iMac which runs Logos 6 perfectly as well. I enjoy the larger screen the desktop provides. I would recommend either without hesitation. Hope this helps.

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Rich | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 11 2014 8:36 AM

Graham I ran the Factbook but could not figure out how to make a passage list from the referred to as list. I thought there might be another way I was unaware of.

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 11 2014 9:08 AM

Integ:

Rich:
I would like to search a bible referring to Jesus as a man. Any suggestions?

That's a great question, Rich, and I am looking forward to someone answering it!

But I have a question for you. I am thinking of moving back to a macbook and was wondering what you noticed about the performance of Logos 6 on your iMac compared to your Macbook Air. I'd appreciate your insights.

If I might venture a thought uninvited - I too have an iMac and an Air. Both run Logos swiftly and competently. A more economical way of stimulating the desktop experience without the expense of the second computer is to invest in a mid range monitor and use this with the Air to provide a second screen.

I worked this way for quite a few years and it really does make a lot of difference when you are at the desk and able to work with a variety of programs open at the same time.

tootle pip

Mike

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Levi Durfey | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 11 2014 9:21 AM

Rich:
how to make a passage list from the referred to as list.

Try right-clicking the heading "man" in the referred to as list.

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Levi Durfey | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 11 2014 9:22 AM

Thanks Rich and Mike for your input.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 11 2014 9:26 AM

Rich:

Graham I ran the Factbook but could not figure out how to make a passage list from the referred to as list. I thought there might be another way I was unaware of.

In 6.0a beta, there's a Save As Passage List option at the end of the "Referred to as" section.

In 6.0, you can right-click on the section heading to save as a passage list. Alternatively, you can right-click on the sub-heading (e.g. 'Man'), and save just those verses as a passage list.

PS - You may want to include other titles that highlight Jesus' humanity, such as 'Jesus of Nazareth'.

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William Gabriel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 12 2014 12:58 PM

I thought I had figured out a way to do it using some of Logos' new search features, but the list is incomplete. Here's what mine looks like, and I'd appreciate any feedback on why this doesn't fully work (I'm guessing phrase boundaries). It gets a lot that show in Graham's list, but not everything. For instance, it's not picking up John 1:30, which it should. Below I show a <Person Jesus> search and a <Sense = man> search and both hit John 1:30, but this ANDEQUALS operator is not picking it up.

<Person Jesus> search in John

<Sense = man> search in John

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 12 2014 1:26 PM

William Gabriel:
but this ANDEQUALS operator is not picking it up.

I don't know why that doesn't work - but not 100% sure that the ANDEQUALS operator can be used in this way. Hopefully someone can confirm

If you try "(<Sense = man>) WITHIN <Person Jesus>" you will find that this picks up the John 1:30 verse fine.

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Bob Soule | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 12 2014 1:56 PM

I think AND should work instead of ANDEQUALS as well as WITHIN. The ANDEQUALS operator is different from the AND operator because the match has to be in precisely the exact same location.

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William Gabriel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 12 2014 1:59 PM

Bob Soule:

I think AND should work instead of ANDEQUALS as well as WITHIN The ANDEQUALS operator is different from the AND operator because the match has to be in precisely the exact same location.

ANDEQUALS is actually what you want in this case instead of AND. If you use AND, then you'll get verses that have a reference to Jesus and a reference to a "man", even if they're not both referring to Jesus. For instance, the AND search returns Matt 7:26 where Jesus speaks of a foolish man.

The OP wanted to know when Jesus was being referred to as a man.

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William Gabriel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 12 2014 2:06 PM

Graham Criddle:

If you try "(<Sense = man>) WITHIN <Person Jesus>" you will find that this picks up the John 1:30 verse fine.

That does pick up some more, thanks. It looks like both of ours miss Matt 26:72 too. I don't think that "man" is getting picked up by the Sense search (missing tagging?).

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 12 2014 2:44 PM

Graham Criddle:

William Gabriel:
but this ANDEQUALS operator is not picking it up.

I don't know why that doesn't work - but not 100% sure that the ANDEQUALS operator can be used in this way. Hopefully someone can confirm

ANDEQUALS means in exactly the same position as. In the John 1:30 example, the person tagging extends to the ὃς (who), whereas the sense tagging obviously doesn't.

<Sense = man> WITHIN <Person Jesus> is not ideal, either. It doesn't work if the sense is over a larger range than the person. That doesn't matter in this case, but it might for some other searches. It does matter in this example if the search terms were the other way around.

<Sense = man> WITHIN 0 WORDS <Person Jesus>, on the other hand, just needs the sense and person to overlap somehow. They don't have to start/end in exactly the same place, and it doesn't matter if one is 'longer' than the other. It also has the advantage that the order doesn't matter.

As for Matt 26:72 - 'man' is tagged with the person sense, not the man sense. That's probably an error.

So it looks like this is the best search:

(<Sense = man>, <Sense = person>) WITHIN 0 WORDS <Person Jesus>

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 12 2014 3:06 PM

Thanks Mark

Very helpful

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William Gabriel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 12 2014 3:36 PM

Mark Barnes:

ANDEQUALS means in exactly the same position as. In the John 1:30 example, the person tagging extends to the ὃς (who), whereas the sense tagging obviously doesn't.

I had suspected that, but I couldn't tell if the who was tagged with man or independently (<-- which would have made more sense to me). When I pull up John 1:30 from the search, it highlights "a man" and "who" with different colors. How are you able to tell that who gets extended from man?

Mark Barnes:

So it looks like this is the best search:

(<Sense = man>, <Sense = person>) WITHIN 0 WORDS <Person Jesus>

This certainly picks up all of the man references that Graham pointed out from Factbook, but it also picks up some more. That may or may not be to your advantage, depending on what you want. For instance, I think it's picking up some "Son of Man" references that were separate in Factbook (but probably just as important for referring to Jesus as a man - e.g. Matt 11:19). But it also picked up Matt 22:16, which must be equating Teacher with <Sense = person> (or something similar). It's probably not too difficult to filter those out, but it could be an issue depending on the exact search you're trying to do (I find too much info can be just as much a problem as to little info).

Thank you, though, for that query, I feel like this is a great workout for growing in L6 search.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 12 2014 4:13 PM

William Gabriel:
I had suspected that, but I couldn't tell if the who was tagged with man or independently (<-- which would have made more sense to me). When I pull up John 1:30 from the search, it highlights "a man" and "who" with different colors. How are you able to tell that who gets extended from man?

I just ran the two searches separately. Or you can right-click on individual words to see the person tagging and the reverse interlinear or info panel for the sense tagging.

William Gabriel:
For instance, I think it's picking up some "Son of Man" references that were separate in Factbook (but probably just as important for referring to Jesus as a man - e.g. Matt 11:19).

That's correct.

William Gabriel:
But it also picked up Matt 22:16, which must be equating Teacher with <Sense = person> (or something similar).

This only occurs in a few English versions (ESV and NASB95). It's caused by the tagging of the phrase "swayed by appearances" (literally "you do not look at men's faces"). Because the phrase isn't translated literally, the "you" (<Person = Jesus>) ends up overlapping the "men's faces" (<Sense = Person>}in the ESV and NASB reverse interlinears. That's why you shouldn't use interlinears if you want 100% accurate results.

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Rich | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 12 2014 6:56 PM

Thanks everyone.

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 14 2014 5:21 AM

Mark Barnes:
ANDEQUALS means in exactly the same position as. In the John 1:30 example, the person tagging extends to the ὃς (who), whereas the sense tagging obviously doesn't.

I just read this thread out of interest in the differences between using ANDEQUALS and WITHIN 0 WORDS. There is something I don't understand though: "Man" in John 1:30 is tagged both as Person = Jesus and Sense = man. While I understand why it would not be applicable to the pronoun earlier in the verse, I don't know why ANDEQUALS would not have worked for the word "man" in the verse.

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