Speed up Logos revisited

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This post has 20 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 139
Noel Fitzpatrick | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Nov 17 2014 7:13 AM

Looking through the forum I see that speeding up Logos is not only a concern of mine, but also of many others.

The principal changes I have made are:

1. Increase RAM from 6 to the maximum 8.

2.  Clean the laptop regularly with Ccleaner.

3. Use internet 'No'.

Would you agree that this is basically the full list of useful changes?

Thanks for all who have helped me consider this issue.

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 17 2014 7:15 AM

You may also add a Solid State Drive.

I am running Logos on a Dual Core processor, 4 GB of ram. It is faster that a laptop with 4 GB of Ram and an I5 processor.

The Ssd really makes a major difference.

Lynden Williams Communications https://www.lyndenwilliams.net 

Posts 4134
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 17 2014 7:23 AM

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link as we all know, and its the same for a computer - its only as fast as its slowest part. 

More memory helps, but as I've posted before I don't see Logos using more than 500mb very often. though I did open hundreds of resources in an attempt to make logos use more, and than re-indexed my personal books, and ran a search of <gen-rev> of the whole library...

The SSD makes a huge and dramatic difference. The mechanical hard drive is going to be the slowest part in most peoples machines. 

If you have 6gb already, and can only afford one upgrade get an ssd. For 1-200$ most people can improve their system, and thus logos performance dramatically. 

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Posts 13415
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 17 2014 7:55 AM

Noel Fitzpatrick:
Would you agree that this is basically the full list of useful changes?

There's always more you can do! For a fast Logos machine, I'd recommend:

  1. An SSD.
  2. 8GB RAM.
  3. Medium to fast CPU (modern i5, or old i7).
  4. Being sensible with layouts, visual filters, etc.

Personally, I don't think turning the internet off is going to help much. (If you have hundreds of changes to sync, it might make a difference whilst that occurs. But once that's finished, it shouldn't happen again.)

Posts 3292
David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 17 2014 8:25 AM

Noel Fitzpatrick:

Looking through the forum I see that speeding up Logos is not only a concern of mine, but also of many others.

The principal changes I have made are:

1. Increase RAM from 6 to the maximum 8.

2.  Clean the laptop regularly with Ccleaner.

3. Use internet 'No'.

Would you agree that this is basically the full list of useful changes?

Thanks for all who have helped me consider this issue.

I went in just on Friday, cleaned up my hard drive by uninstalling all of the junk I don't use.  I ran ccleaner, I did a full defrag. 

I then also went and turned off all of the services of my computer I do not use as well as some of the more frilly visual applications in Windows 7.  ( I can find an article for you if you would like on how to do this).

Since Friday I have noticed a SIGNIFICANT speed increase in my machine and L6 is a bit snappier too.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 17 2014 8:31 AM

Mark Barnes:
An SSD.

Question: If an SSD can be procured to run off of USB3, will that be much slower than if it were installed inside the machine? I picked up a brand new OLD model Mac Mini and am trying to figure out if I need to mess with getting deep inside it.

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Posts 303
danwdoo | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 17 2014 8:55 AM

I suspect it will be much slower than an internal drive. SATA (common internal drive interface) runs at about 3-6Gb/sec, but is a dedicated channel and much more CPU independent. USB3 is 5gb/sec but is a shared interface and heavily CPU dependent so you usually won't get near that in real world use. When performing anything CPU heavy (i.e. just about anything in Logos) I would expect the USB performance to drop dramatically.

Posts 4134
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 17 2014 8:57 AM

It is likely still faster than a mechanical drive, but I don't think you will experience the full benefits of the speed of an SSD.

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Posts 13415
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 17 2014 11:27 AM

alabama24:
If an SSD can be procured to run off of USB3, will that be much slower than if it were installed inside the machine?

On a Mac, you'd be better off with Thunderbolt than USB3.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 17 2014 12:12 PM

Mark Barnes:
On a Mac, you'd be better off with Thunderbolt than USB3.

Thanks... It does have thunderbolt, but only thunderbolt 1. Does that change your answer? Do you agree with danwdoo and abondservant about using sata instead? 

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Posts 4134
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 17 2014 1:12 PM

http://www.macworld.com/article/2039427/how-fast-is-usb-3-0-really-.html

appears that thunderbolt while theoretically a lot faster, in practice is only marginally faster. even with an SSD. Appears to be about 2x the speed of the mechanical drive even so... which is definitely an improvement. 

The article references a theoretical max 10gbps throughput speed, so that should be TB1, not 2. 2's theoretical max is 20gbps but in practice both are a lot lower. 

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Posts 1150
Anthony H | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 17 2014 1:12 PM

David Taylor Jr:

Noel Fitzpatrick:

Looking through the forum I see that speeding up Logos is not only a concern of mine, but also of many others.

The principal changes I have made are:

1. Increase RAM from 6 to the maximum 8.

2.  Clean the laptop regularly with Ccleaner.

3. Use internet 'No'.

Would you agree that this is basically the full list of useful changes?

Thanks for all who have helped me consider this issue.

I went in just on Friday, cleaned up my hard drive by uninstalling all of the junk I don't use.  I ran ccleaner, I did a full defrag. 

I then also went and turned off all of the services of my computer I do not use as well as some of the more frilly visual applications in Windows 7.  ( I can find an article for you if you would like on how to do this).

Since Friday I have noticed a SIGNIFICANT speed increase in my machine and L6 is a bit snappier too.

Yes

Posts 4134
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 17 2014 1:17 PM

http://www.redsharknews.com/production/item/1369-thunderbolt-2-is-not-twice-the-speed-of-thunderbolt-1

I
s interesting, the distinction between TB1 & 2 seems to have more to do with the ability to support higher display resolutions (4k). They reduced some overhead, but there are no new channels. They simply bonded channels together from 4 to 2. from 2 upstream, and 2 downstream to 1 up and 1 down. 

L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, L9

Posts 274
Mike W | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 17 2014 2:15 PM

alabama24:

Mark Barnes:
An SSD.

Question: If an SSD can be procured to run off of USB3, will that be much slower than if it were installed inside the machine? I picked up a brand new OLD model Mac Mini and am trying to figure out if I need to mess with getting deep inside it.

I currently have a SAMSUNG 840 SSD (256 gb) in an external USB3 enclosure (Sabrent).  Running Logos 6 (10551 resources in library) on a late 2014 macbook pro (i5, 8gb ram) I've seen no noticeable difference in speed compared to L6 on the internal SSD.  Timed searches show pretty much identical times and indexing time was about the same.  I am running a full OS 10.10.1 on the external drive and boot to that for Logos (you could create a user account on the external drive and install Logos to that but it would require the drive to be connected all the time.  For a laptop that wasn't practical).  I did add a second hard drive to a mac mini a few years ago and definitely did not enjoy the experience Stick out tongue Memory upgrades are very easy but the hard disk requires complete disassembly and some of the connectors are very fragile.  External enclosures are pretty reasonable (mine was $15 on amazon) and I would probably try L6 on an external SSD drive before attempting to upgrade a Mac Mini.

Posts 934
Josh Hunt | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 17 2014 2:23 PM

Noel Fitzpatrick:

Looking through the forum I see that speeding up Logos is not only a concern of mine, but also of many others.

The principal changes I have made are:

1. Increase RAM from 6 to the maximum 8.

2.  Clean the laptop regularly with Ccleaner.

3. Use internet 'No'.

Would you agree that this is basically the full list of useful changes?

Thanks for all who have helped me consider this issue.

I love logos, but this is my number 1 complaint. I'd gladly give up half the features do double the speed. I think keeping as few tabs open as possible seems to help. 

Posts 2315
GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 17 2014 3:01 PM

Maybe it's like the emperor has no clothes, or maybe everyone just has unique computers and experiences using an SSD.  

I have 2 new-ish, gamer-ish, well-maintained i7 computers with 12 and 16 GB or RAM.  One has a 7200 RPM HDD and one has an SSD.  Logos on SSD "seems" noticeably faster, but nothing to write home to Grandma about.  Once it us up and running there is not an appreciable difference.  

I tested the HDD and SDD side by side with the same search,  Both computers were up and running, happy, well-fed, indexed, not doing anything strange.  

Results:

All Library Search: <bible ~ Mat> 868,348 Hits

SSD (Asus G75VW i7 16 GB RAM SSD) 
  • 25.96 s
  • 25.92 s
  • 41.69 s
  • (30 min later) - 31.50 s
HDD  (Dell Studio XPS 9100 i7 12 GB RAM 7200RPM HDD)  
  • 11.53 s
  • 11.89 s
  • 11.67 s
  •  (30 min later) - 11.34 s

Posts 13415
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 17 2014 3:01 PM

alabama24:

Mark Barnes:
On a Mac, you'd be better off with Thunderbolt than USB3.

Thanks... It does have thunderbolt, but only thunderbolt 1. Does that change your answer? Do you agree with danwdoo and abondservant about using sata instead? 

SATA is certainly best (assuming it's SATA3), but as far as I know, Macs don't have an eSATA port so that's not an option for external drives. I would pay a huge premium for Thunderbolt over USB3, but it is a bit faster.

Posts 3292
David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 17 2014 3:42 PM

Mark Barnes:

alabama24:

Mark Barnes:
On a Mac, you'd be better off with Thunderbolt than USB3.

Thanks... It does have thunderbolt, but only thunderbolt 1. Does that change your answer? Do you agree with danwdoo and abondservant about using sata instead? 

SATA is certainly best (assuming it's SATA3), but as far as I know, Macs don't have an eSATA port so that's not an option for external drives. I would pay a huge premium for Thunderbolt over USB3, but it is a bit faster.

You used to be able to do this with a card back in the day, no longer, no longer.... 

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 17 2014 5:49 PM

Mark Barnes:
I would pay a huge premium for Thunderbolt over USB3, but it is a bit faster.

Did you mean "would" or "would not"? 

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Posts 13415
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 18 2014 1:15 AM

alabama24:

Mark Barnes:
I would pay a huge premium for Thunderbolt over USB3, but it is a bit faster.

Did you mean "would" or "would not"? 

Sorry. I was typing on an iPhone. I meant "wouldn't".  

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