Weighing in on the Faithlife outage

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 23 2014 5:37 PM

James Hiddle:

About Proclaim. It looks like a very useful tool for Pastors but I believe it should be an offline feature for Logos software instead of cloud base that's just my opinion though.

Proclaim does run presentations offline. Online is required for collaboration in the original development. I checked last night with Proclaim users. It seems that this outage started before many had loaded a finished presentation onto the correct machine/flash drive.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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James Hiddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 23 2014 6:01 PM

MJ. Smith:

James Hiddle:

About Proclaim. It looks like a very useful tool for Pastors but I believe it should be an offline feature for Logos software instead of cloud base that's just my opinion though.

Proclaim does run presentations offline. Online is required for collaboration in the original development. I checked last night with Proclaim users. It seems that this outage sitarted before many had loaded a finished presentation onto the correct machine/flash drive.

Oh ok I didn't know that. I thought it was 100% cloud based. Thanks for explaining that. God bless you always!

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 23 2014 6:13 PM

I was very lucky... my devotional studies were all fine on the computer and I just had a bad feeling about trying anything on my phone or pad so I didn't loose my stuff there... I put my pad into airplane mode to confirm everything was still working fine on my iPad. 

-Dan

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 3:25 AM

David Mitchell:
Rest assured, there are many of us at the office today working to address the outage.

Thank each of them for me. Having previously been in situations where critical systems must be restored promptly, I understand the sacrifices needed in such situations. Again, multiple thanks to all for your dedication and hard work.

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Donald G. Fisher | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 5:10 AM

When my wife's iPad was having trouble on Saturday with Logos and I couldn't resolve it, I made the mistake of thinking, "I will just delete it and reinstall the app."  Then we lost availability to whatever books that were originally on her iPad.  We had no reason to suspect that there was something more going on.  As to the comment that we shouldn't read the forums regarding this issue until people can collectively cool down because Christians can be ruthless, I thought this was totally off the mark.  As much as I appreciate Logos and have used it since the very early Libronix days, Logos has morphed even more into a business relationship with its customers rather than a ministerial one.  If Christians are complaining because of this weekends events, it is because they have invested large amounts of money and expect a service relative to that investment.  As Christians, many of us work weekends, travel on holidays, so we do not see Logos personnel working this last weekend as a ministry to its customers but as a obligation to our investment.  Our church also uses Proclaim and we experienced a disruption as well.  Unfortunately much of ministry is now more business than we would care to admit and this is causing us to look at other options and examine what worst case scenarios would look like utilizing different software such as Media Shout. 

Don

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Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 5:59 AM

MJ. Smith:
demonstrating every 6 months

This is critical. Having a playbook for disaster situations has no value until it's been proven to work. We have to run production systems on disaster infrastructure for extended periods (a week or more) at least twice per year. My preference is to architect systems that don't require an explicit "failover" act - that all available infrastructure is actively taking requests and that any single instance of the infrastructure can handle load requirements in the event that other infrastructure (data centers) are down. This is very challenging, however, for many classes of data requirements.

Donnie

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Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 6:04 AM

Bruce Dunning:
We can only imagine! We appreciate all the extra work your team is doing! THANK YOU!

Absolutely! I hope that nothing I said implied that I was ungrateful for the effort of all the Faithlife folks working to restore service. I can imagine how intense the effort was to get things restored, and I'm appreciative of those efforts.

Ideally, IMO, they'll be able to arrive at an architecture that will make it significantly less likely that they will ever have to repeat this exercise.

Donnie

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Dr. Charles A. Wootten | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 6:16 AM

DELETED...

running Logos Bible Software 6.0a: Collector's Edition on HP e9220y (AMD Phenom II X4 2.60GHz 8.00GB 64-bit Win 7 Pro SP1) & iPad (mini) apps.

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Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 6:29 AM

Dr. Wootten,

As spiritual and well-intentioned as your observations were, you were not among those who lost data, time and energy. That alone tells me something.

I would not make the blanket assessment that users who complain on the company's public forum are worldly, easily offended, childish or overly dependent on technology. No, I would not do that at all. I don't immediately see how the verses cited come into play for them.

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Michael Wright | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 7:16 AM

http://www.slideshare.net/BobPritchett/logos-corporate-culture-14348939/7

I appreciate your hard work to correct these issues, but I wasn't "laughing in delight" yesterday.

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toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 7:30 AM

Donnie Hale:
As a customer, I’d want the services required for desktop and mobile apps to be more available than the e-commerce site.

I agree.

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 7:30 AM

From 'day 1' (that'd be approx 11-1-09), I've been fascinated with 'the forum'.  I suspect everyone has, though differing perspectives.  Like most, I grew up in a denomination, which had a set of expected behaviors (both good and questionable).  But slowly, one thinks they've mined the edges of 'Christianity', absent a few pastors/priests free from moral constraints now and then.

But then 'the internet' comes along and 'the forum'.  That's when you really have to go back to Sociology 101, and just start over. Dispense with 'the Word'; it doesn't really explain the pattern.

People get emotionally upset at other people getting emotionally upset.  

They reach for 'Jesus' (selectively ignoring most of his literal commands).  Then they follow up with epitaphs ... childish!!  Ungracious!!

"Mommy, mommy ... Billy's not bowing down to the software company!! Again!!"

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 7:48 AM

I would like to add one more thing:

offline accessibility of purchased resources is also crucial, because we live in such a world now when foreign Governments for whatever reasons (political, religious, etc) can disrupt online access or confiscate a mobile device, ...

Ideally, I would love the ability to backup downloaded mobile resources, so they can be restored completely offline.

Posts 1993
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 8:19 AM

Dr. Charles A. Wootten:
I am positive that the Faithlife team didn't damage the equipment on purpose just to survey how many of us would get upset, that those responsible for the electronics were paying attention before, during, and after the outage, and the "Rapid Response Teams" were at their respective stations to handle the situation. I trusted that folks were doing their jobs. This incident is neither a business or ministry issue.

a) The general tone of your response is condescending and "holier than thou." I think you're responding to the forum respondents in the same way that you're accusing them of responding to Faithlife, just dressed up with a few verses.

b) The quoted portion of your response is logically fallacious.

c) The whole point of this thread is that this absolutely is a business issue. Faithlife may have made explicit, intentional business decisions that resulted in an architecture susceptible to this kind of problem. And they may have been the *right* business decisions, i.e. a more resilient architecture may have been cost prohibitive. But it absolutely is a business issue.

Donnie

Posts 461
Robert Harner | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 9:22 AM

Like some other folks here I work as a tech at a company that goes through several billion dollars a month requiring high security. I know about equipment failures and code problems and downtime. I noted the errors during the V5 Denomination rollout, the massive upgrade/V6 rollout (nothing learned), and now last weekend. One big failure was the lack of notification/information which is a Suit not tech responsibility.

But the Game Changer was Saturday night when I turned on the iPad, loaded Logos, Saw my library, then POOF – gone. I thought Downloaded meant Downloaded! If Downloaded does not mean Downloaded, Is is not Is, what else is behind the curtain? I feel like Neo after Morpheus got through to him. On my Open Pre-Pub tab I had $9,292.04 – insane. I just deleted over $8,700 of that and looking seriously at the rest. Next I’m going through CP with a meat cleaver. I have almost 18K logos resources and a paper book library larger then my church’s library. I have enough. I also have come to realize the time spent reading forum posts would be better spent reading books, so my forum usage will fade away. A year from now I expect to see major dividends from this - that I am sure. The Logos failures are now my ultimate gain.

Posts 2589
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 24 2014 9:38 AM

Bob Pritchett:

(I've seen more reports than I expected of issues with the mobile app; the mobile apps should use any downloaded books just fine when there's no Internet -- I read in our mobile apps on the plane last week (to ETS and AAR/SBL conferences, where I am now) without any issues. But I know that iOS in particular can make its own decision to delete non-user-created data, like our downloaded ebooks, to manage space on the device, and when we get through this we'll look carefully at the source of mobile issues to see if this was the cause of unexpected missing books (and if so, how we can prevent it), or if there's something else going on.)

Bro. Harner,

I think Logos will see to it that downloaded books will not go away again. Maybe you want to review some of your order cancellations in that light! Anyway, I do agree that actually reading the books is way more profitable than spending time on forum posts.

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