Logos 7 - What should it offer?

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 1 2014 2:53 AM

I find it striking that even after the reminder that uservoice should be used, many of the suggestions here are not accompanied by links to corresponding uservoice posts (if any). 

Of course, Bob did ask for our suggestions here, in this thread, and so, it is also normal to reply here (in the belief that Bob has particular interest in this thread and is looking at it personally). But still, a suggestion expressed here cannot be voted for in the way that it can on uservoice. As a matter of fact, I notice also very little interaction about the suggestions here. There is some, but not that much.

It may be worth asking as well what the relationship between the "Suggestions" category in the forums and uservoice is. Of course they don't work the same, but don't they compete in some way? I would tend to think that because forums are so much more multi-functional, people prefer to post here than to go elsewhere (this is true about using the wiki as well). What about, when one chooses "suggestions" as the category for forums, being redirected to uservoice (with perhaps a blab explaining why and what to do for those who don't know)?

I wonder whether, much like there is a sidebar for blog entries in the forums (which by the way, is the main way I connect to the blog. That is, I don't check the blog regularly but only when I see a title that catches my attention from the right sidebar in the forums). A sidebar that top or "trendish" posts on uservoice might help keeping it in view and in mind. Here I think the saying applies: out of sight, out of mind.

Another option, if the sidebar in the forums is already too crowded, would be to have it as one of the content that can toggled on/off on the Logos desktop homepage. 

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Whyndell Grizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 1 2014 4:06 AM

I find "uservoice" inadequate - u get a certain number of votes- then only can comment- come on- "notes" needs a lot of work but can only vote for a couple.

Logos 7 needs to have one thing DONE- finish tagging the resources- there is so much material not referencing each other its unbelievable.

Remember this paragraph, it use to appear in all resources- now very few, and is the main reason for buying LOGOS!

"With the Logos edition of this resource, these powerful reference tools automatically integrate with your Logos library, allowing you to cross-reference them and study Orthodoxy like never before. Pull these accessible texts up side-by-side with other theological experts in your library to see what other denominations have to say. Important terms, figures, and dates link to dictionaries, encyclopedias, the timeline, and a wealth of other resources in your digital library. Logos mobile apps let you bring the discussion with you. With Logos Bible Software, the most efficient and comprehensive research tools are in one place so you get the most out of your study."

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 1 2014 4:26 AM

Whyndell Grizzard:
Logos 7 needs to have one thing DONE- finish tagging the resources

I am not sure that I would describe this as the one thing. But I do agree with you that though, marketing-wise, the release of new features and new version numbers is more salable (upgrades, crossgrades, etc) and may be necessary to the longer-term sustainability of Logos, it does compete with work on what's already here and is incomplete. Tagging is a big part of this. In an earlier post, I mentioned the help file as well. 

I actually liked the way Logos 6 suddenly "appeared" for many (not all) of us. I did not expect it to be so early. I would be fine though with waiting a bit longer to Logos 7 yet see such a major advance on updating existing materials that it could be announced as Logos 6.5. Of course, a substantial (as opposed to progressive) release of resource updates is bound to run into October 26 type of issues (problems downloading, indexing, etc). But still, it would be very nice and I think that most users would find this highly desirable. 

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Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 1 2014 5:35 AM

Whyndell Grizzard:

Remember this paragraph, it use to appear in all resources- now very few, and is the main reason for buying LOGOS!

"With the Logos edition of this resource, these powerful reference tools automatically integrate with your Logos library, allowing you to cross-reference them and study ...... like never before ..."

Good observation, I had not recognized that the statement has disappeared.

Many program suites, like Adobe and Autodesk allow plug-ins to enhance their functionality. Maybe some users could be ready to invest to a computer aided tagger tool, in case someone develops it?

Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 8.1

Posts 245
BriM | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 1 2014 12:38 PM

My 2p worth:

Here, on a scale of 0 (lowest) to 10 (highest) is how I value enhancements.

10: Improve Stability
Logos crashes perhaps once per week for me, which is too much.

9: Improve Performance
Startup times of several minutes are too long, Logos seems to spend time synchronising my library every startup, then downloads and indexes. The orange circles that appear when navigating through a bible are very time-wasting in my workflow where I have a list of verses that I want to look up and copy – a couple of seconds each time to display orange circles is annoying. This also makes it slow to quickly move between passages if wanting to check something.

8: Improved Organisation of Library
Scrolling through a list of several thousand resources is almost impossible to do fruitfully. Collections help a little but I’d really like to see resources organised into expandable hierarchical folders like Windows Explorer that are put there by drag and drop. Ideally, this would be a view rather than a physical location so that I could have multiple logical organisations of resources (e.g. I might want to organise my commentaries by series, book, etc. There should be a way to choose the size of icon or list details much like windows explorer gives.

7: Improve Searching
Find better ways to get me the results I want and deprioritise those I don’t. Google seems to do a much better job at general searching with many more documents to cater for. LCV and the everything search are a good step forward but I’m concerned that they rely on Logos tagging and this may not be perfect. One thing in particular I would like is the automatic translation between British and American English in search so that, e.g. if I search for honour it would also find honor and vice versa.

6: Improvements to Android and Apple Apps
They are too difficult to use. I'd like to be able to read a bible with linked commentary easily or to read greek and have it look up in lexicons easily or show interlinears easily, much the same as in the desktop. Some of these are partly possible but don't work too well. I noticed that much less costly bible software can find things a lot quicker on mobile platforms.

1: Whizzy new features that aren’t immediately obvious to me why I need them.

0: Anything that requires the internet in order to work.

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Levi Durfey | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 2 2014 8:15 AM

Bob Pritchett:
And after you've helped us prioritize the Logos 6.x path, post your crazy / wild / big idea for Logos 7 here.

A couple ideas would be:

1) A way to "lock" a panel so that Logos cannot automatically add any resources to it. Perhaps you have a library window or a set of Bibles that you don't want Logos adding more resources to, just click a "lock" button and Logos has to ignore them.

2) I am a user who has a separate highlight document for each resource I use. It would be nice to "tie" my highlight document to that resource so that I don't have to open the document each time I want to highlight in that resource.

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BriM:
The orange circles that appear when navigating through a bible are very time-wasting in my workflow where I have a list of verses that I want to look up and copy – a couple of seconds each time to display orange circles is annoying. This also makes it slow to quickly move between passages if wanting to check something.

These are called "Visual Cues" and can be turned off in the General section of Program Settings.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 2 2014 2:08 PM

L7/V7 should have improved library management that increases application functionality.

  • link a text and its translation together so that one can toggle between them ... especially important for church documents in Latin/English/Spanish
  • link a text to a lectionary so other lectionaries can have the feature of opening a ritual book (Missal) in the default layout. It needs to be user set to handle the Anglican and Lutheran communities with their many options.
  • When a book is divided into multiple resources, the library needs a column to show their relationship and one needs to be able to navigate through them as a single unit as well as each resource individually
  • Bible translations embedded in commentaries need to function like a full-fledged Bible translation re: highlighting, comparison, etc.
  • Commentaries in which have a multipart structure for each pericope, e.g. text, notes, commentary, need to be able to be open in multiple panes with the sections behaving as a link set; one should also have the option of tabbing through the sections.
  • Study/discussion questions should be tagged and have their own PG section
  • Prioritization should have sub-headings, a readable chart of how your priorities apply to the categories used in the program, and a quick way to view resources not prioritized.
  • Metadata should contain the primary translation used by the resource and one should be able to easily default to that translation
  • Metadata should indicate the tagging of the resource so that one can easily create collections of resource that do/don't appear in a tag-driver guide section

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 3690
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 2 2014 2:51 PM

MJ. Smith:
When a book is divided into multiple resources

I am not sure I understand why it is so at times. For instance, to have a zillion 'resources' each corresponding to a single manuscript (usually one page) clutters the library list. Since we can duplicate resource tabs (and so put side by side different manuscripts from the same resource), I am not sure I understand what the idea/use is. This is all the more puzzling that this is not true of similar resources. Examples: targumic fragments, the biblical scrolls from Qumran and the text of the earliest New Testament Greek manuscripts. 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 2 2014 2:58 PM

I'm not suggesting that Logos divide books - only that when they do they are visibly tied together - for example the BCP's  have their Psalters split out as type Bible with nothing visible to the user tying the two pieces together. I think that in some cases they are divided because of differences in resource type ... as for the various manuscript fragments, can't say I even have a good guess on why they were separated.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1377
Ben | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 6 2014 12:14 AM

  1. Better linking/following with commentaries. (Already mentioned at length.)
  2. A shortcut to the command bar that doesn't require 3 fingers, like the escape key, instead of the current shift-alt-delete-capslock-T or whatever it is. (I can never remember, but it requires both hands. Not user friendly. I rarely need my mouse in Bibleworks.)
  3. A title view in the library that treats series like one book. I don't even have that many resources ( 700ish), but when scrolling through my library, I end up scrolling really fast to get through dozens of Biblical Archaeology Review, Bible Review, and Biblical Archaeologist issues, where every issue is a separate title. And then I overshoot and miss whatever comes after.  I guess I'm asking to add an expandable level in to the title view. 
  4. (On Mac) the ability for Logos to remember it was open full screen, so when you reopen it, it opens full screen. I always want it full-screen, but it has no state memory. 
  5. Selective sync with certain preferences. My iMac and Macbook Air have very different amounts of real estate and resolution. Font sizes and layouts for one don't quite work for the other, and I'd prefer not to sync them. I get around the layout issue by cloning, renaming as "Layout" and "Layout-Laptop" but it's minority inconvenient.
  6. More font/background control. When I have 5 panels with two dozen tabs, it would add clarity if I could make my Biblical text a different font/background color/texture to distinguish it visually from the other panels. I don't know if this would work better as a per-resource setting or a per-resource type, i.e. "all commentaries should have this font and background." 
    Related, I would also like independent control of non-English font sizes. Sometimes I need my Hebrew bigger than what it is, but can't change that without making the English ridiculously large. 
  7. Clarify popups, e.g. in the settings, mousing over the "?" by "Show Visual Cues" helpfully explains that that setting controls whether Visual Cues are shown. Well, duh, right? But Mr. N00b User has no idea what Visual Cues are, and the helpful popup doesn't provide any help.  It's the Visual Cues part he needs help with, not the "what does 'show' mean?"

That's my list for now. Many thanks for soliciting feedback.

"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton

Posts 1377
Ben | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 6 2014 12:26 AM

8.I sometimes find myself remembering a snippet from a search I've performed in the last few days... but not enough to find it again. If there were an easy way to limit a search to "resources/passages viewed/opened in the last X number of hours/days/weeks", that would be quite helpful to me. 

9. If I can expand on my request for finer control over non-English fonts, check out this screenshot. I have one size of Hebrew for Targum Onqelos on the right. The headings in Jastrow are weirdly fat/large (bolded Hebrew?) But then the navigational Hebrew in Jastrow's contents pane is unreadably tiny.

"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 6 2014 2:23 AM

Personal Preaching Tacklebox

Every preacher would at least in theory like to have a personal collection of quotes, anecdotes, illustrations, etc. I would like to see Faithlife add a new tool to allow users to easily create and maintain such a resource.

Such a tool needs at least the following fields:

  1. Type: Quote, Anecdote, Illustration, etc.
  2. Title: Give a title that sums up the text
  3. Themes: Selection of one or multiple themes that this quote, anecdote, etc. illustrates.
  4. Text: The actual quote, anecdote, etc.
  5. Author: The author / source

Ideally it would also include these fields as well:

  1. Related (Scriptural) References - If the text was taken from a resource in Logos, this field could also be automatically populated with a link to where it came from. It should allow related Scriptural references as well.
  2. Visual Copy link / thumbnail: Sure, why not?

Some characteristics:

  • This should be a real resource, that I can open and browse through. It should create entries that look something like this (taken from the "300 Quotes for Preachers from the Puritans" resource):

  • The results should show up in the respective Guides - in the Illustrations tools, etc. found in the Sermon Starter Guide and other places.
  • I should be able to select a text, right click, send it to my tacklebox, and have some of the fields filled out automatically (such as "Text" and "Author"), and then be able to select the other fields and add.
  • I should be able to add without selecting a text as well. i.e. just create a new entry from scratch, or copying in from some other document, etc.
  • Ideally it should be able to import texts from Word / XML that follow a certain pattern that Faithlife could determine. As well, I should be able to export my collection to that same format, to allow preachers to share and easily expand their tackleboxes with others. Obviously, one place something like this could be shared would be Faithlife, with a Faithlife group to share, well done tackleboxes promoted, etc.
  • I should also be able to easily search through my preaching tacklebox based on any of the fields.
Posts 3690
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 6 2014 2:47 AM

Ben:
I sometimes find myself remembering a snippet from a search I've performed in the last few days... but not enough to find it again.
 

I don't know if I misunderstand what you mean, but can't you do that from the History feature (under tools)? And, at least it's available on the PC version, there is a little arrow right of the search field in the search window that opens up a list of most recent searches.

Fr Devin Roza:
Every preacher would at least in theory like to have a personal collection of quotes, anecdotes, illustrations, etc. I would like to see Faithlife add a new tool to allow users to easily create and maintain such a resource.

Don't you think we could do that with clippings if it were more freely editable and not limited to Logos resources?

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Fr Devin Roza | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 6 2014 3:35 AM

Francis:

Fr Devin Roza:
Every preacher would at least in theory like to have a personal collection of quotes, anecdotes, illustrations, etc. I would like to see Faithlife add a new tool to allow users to easily create and maintain such a resource.

Don't you think we could do that with clippings if it were more freely editable and not limited to Logos resources?

Clippings does not currently have the majority of the features I suggested a Preaching Toolbox offer. And those features Clippings does have have some serious implementation problems, so no.

However, the idea of improving Clippings so that it also offer some of the features I suggested a Preaching Toolbox offer sounds good to me! Clippings is such a great feature idea, but in the practice is missing so many things that it's tough to use (search results are unable to take you directly to the hit, doing a find within a clipping document doesn't actually work, etc., etc.). So, I guess the fact that Clippings is such a poorly implemented feature indicates to me it wouldn't make a solid base to build a Preaching Toolbox off of. I think we would get better results if Faithlife built a Preaching Toolbox "from scratch".

Maybe that could also be used as a basis for a new Clippings tool that would replace the actual one? After all, it would be so much better if Clippings documents just acted like normal resources, were searchable as a normal resource, etc., etc., in a similar way to how I imagined a Preaching Toolbox working. Hmmm....

Posts 3690
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 6 2014 4:04 AM

Fr Devin Roza:
Maybe that could also be used as a basis for a new Clippings tool that would replace the actual one? After all, it would be so much better if Clippings documents just acted like normal resources, were searchable as a normal resource, etc., etc., in a similar way to how I imagined a Preaching Toolbox working. Hmmm....

Yes, I lean in that direction because while you have a very specific application in mind, a tool that is more versatile could have other applications and be serviceable to building a "preaching toolbox". 

Posts 2038
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 6 2014 5:03 AM

There are many reasons to have Accordance as well and this is one of them and wouldn't be a simple matter to implement in Logos/Verbum. I haven't installed the Bible Review CD-ROM I bought nor even decided whether I myself or the friend I'll research together should have it:

Ben:
3. A title view in the library that treats series like one book. I don't even have that many resources ( 700ish), but when scrolling through my library, I end up scrolling really fast to get through dozens of Biblical Archaeology Review, Bible Review, and Biblical Archaeologist issues, where every issue is a separate title. And then I overshoot and miss whatever comes after.  I guess I'm asking to add an expandable level in to the title view.

Aply!
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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 6 2014 5:13 AM

Unix:

There are many reasons to have Accordance as well and this is one of them and wouldn't be a simple matter to implement in Logos/Verbum. I haven't installed the Bible Review CD-ROM I bought nor even decided whether I myself or the friend I'll research together should have it:

Ben:
3. A title view in the library that treats series like one book. I don't even have that many resources ( 700ish), but when scrolling through my library, I end up scrolling really fast to get through dozens of Biblical Archaeology Review, Bible Review, and Biblical Archaeologist issues, where every issue is a separate title. And then I overshoot and miss whatever comes after.  I guess I'm asking to add an expandable level in to the title view.

Unix - I don't know how you determine whether something would be simply to implement in Logos / Verbum.

Ben:
A title view in the library that treats series like one book. I don't even have that many resources ( 700ish), but when scrolling through my library, I end up scrolling really fast to get through dozens of Biblical Archaeology Review, Bible Review, and Biblical Archaeologist issues, where every issue is a separate title. And then I overshoot and miss whatever comes after.  I guess I'm asking to add an expandable level in to the title view.

Ben - I accept that this isn't an "expanding title" solution but are you aware that you can click on the Series column at the top of the Library and your resources are then sorted by series?

This might go someway towards addressing this.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 6 2014 5:22 AM

Ben:
A shortcut to the command bar that doesn't require 3 fingers, like the escape key, instead of the current shift-alt-delete-capslock-T or whatever it is. (I can never remember, but it requires both hands. Not user friendly. I rarely need my mouse in Bibleworks.)

Interesting - are you running on Mac OS?

It is currently Alt-D on Windows and seems to be Opt-Cmd-L on Mac (but not sure about this)

Posts 2038
Unix | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 6 2014 5:47 AM

Faithlife offers over 40,000 titles, it would be a lot of work now, afterwards, for them to determine which ones to collapse in the libraries:

Graham Criddle:
Unix - I don't know how you determine whether something would be simple to implement in Logos / Verbum:
Unix:
There are many reasons to have Accordance as well and this is one of them and wouldn't be a simple matter to implement in Logos/Verbum. I haven't installed the Bible Review CD-ROM I bought nor even decided whether I myself or the friend I'll research together should have it:
Ben:
3. A title view in the library that treats series like one book. I don't even have that many resources ( 700ish), but when scrolling through my library, I end up scrolling really fast to get through dozens of Biblical Archaeology Review, Bible Review, and Biblical Archaeologist issues, where every issue is a separate title. And then I overshoot and miss whatever comes after.  I guess I'm asking to add an expandable level in to the title view.

Aply!
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