Logos 7 - What should it offer?

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Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 24 2014 9:39 AM

Regarding reverse interlinears,

One thing I've noticed infrequently, is that sometimes a translation uses a non-standard manuscript (chooses a text variant), however the rev. int. doesn't always reflect the translation choice. It would be cool if those variants were taken into account in the rev. int. text for each specific translation. I realize this gets complicated when an OT translation chooses to follow the LXX, rather than a Hebrew text. There would have to be some way of noting that in the rev. int. for those translations as well.

It would also be pretty interesting then, to be able to compare the textual variants between translations.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 24 2014 10:03 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Keeping software documentation up to date with bug fixes and new features is very expensive and time consuming
 Crying   Bo Ho for the folks making thousands that they would actually do thier job and give us at least a pdf manual

Here's the deal so perhaps you might get it for those of us that would like a manual. A manual is different than the the help menu in the top right corner, a manual I can read and study, the help ? is designed to help me when I realize I have a problem. A Manual I can read and study to see what the software can do  There are features in this program a lot of people don't even know about well for the simple fact they don't know the feature exista manual would fix this. Plus a manual explains things in great detail it doesn't just hit the high points it hits every point and this is why a lot of people are frustrated with Logos.

Second I am thankful for all the free stuff Faithlife offers, but as long as I am paying for it I'm going to speak my mind about it your entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine, get used to it cause I'm here to stay.

Keep smilingWink

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 2499
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 24 2014 10:27 AM

1. A complete (i.e. not just "new features") PDF/digital manual. This is especially critical for overseas users. One only needs to read the feedback from here and here to feel the pulse of user sentiment.

2. Ability to space out auto-updates of programs to monthly cycles, or IN THE ALTERNATIVE, delta updates instead of behemoth xy.z MB combo updates.

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 24 2014 10:56 AM

Yes Yes and AMEN. Smile

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 23
Curtis M | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 24 2014 11:13 AM

How about customizable base packages? After having bought several different base packages, I now find Logos to be rather bogged down with stuff I would rather not have. It makes searches slow, indexing long, (at least, I assume that this contributes to these issues) and I find it hard to find the stuff I am actually looking for. I have been thinking about buying a new base package in L6, but in the package I am considering, I am only interested in about 20% of the resources in the package. Another 30% I am indifferent to, but the remain 50% I would really rather not even have on my machine, and it is such a pain to hide each resource I don't want to show up. I shudder to think how many unwanted resources I will have on my machine by L12. It would be nice if I had more control over what I buy in a base package.

Also, while I'm at it, how about pulling apart more of the commentary series? I find that when I am working on a particular portion of scripture, I will go to bestcommentaries.com and find a couple I would like to buy. At this point, I am willing to drop $50-$100. But then I find that I can only get that particular volume I would really like by buying the whole set for $500-$1500, and there is just no way that I can just drop that kind of cash. So I end up not buying anything.

 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 24 2014 1:39 PM

Bryan S.:

 A manual is different than the the help menu in the top right corner, a manual I can read and study, the help ? is designed to help me when I realize I have a problem. A Manual I can read and study to see what the software can do  There are features in this program a lot of people don't even know about well for the simple fact they don't know the feature exista manual would fix this.

It seems to me that what you say applies to most software I own but not to Logos/Verbum/Noet. Here the Help function contains nothing but the list of features available under what portion of the program i.e. a very brief descriptive manual. I, at least, don't find it very good for helping me solve problems.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 790
James Hiddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 24 2014 2:10 PM

Curtis M:

How about customizable base packages? After having bought several different base packages, I now find Logos to be rather bogged down with stuff I would rather not have. It makes searches slow, indexing long, (at least, I assume that this contributes to these issues) and I find it hard to find the stuff I am actually looking for. I have been thinking about buying a new base package in L6, but in the package I am considering, I am only interested in about 20% of the resources in the package. Another 30% I am indifferent to, but the remain 50% I would really rather not even have on my machine, and it is such a pain to hide each resource I don't want to show up. I shudder to think how many unwanted resources I will have on my machine by L12. It would be nice if I had more control over what I buy in a base package.

Also, while I'm at it, how about pulling apart more of the commentary series? I find that when I am working on a particular portion of scripture, I will go to bestcommentaries.com and find a couple I would like to buy. At this point, I am willing to drop $50-$100. But then I find that I can only get that particular volume I would really like by buying the whole set for $500-$1500, and there is just no way that I can just drop that kind of cash. So I end up not buying anything.

 

I like that. A custom base package or a build your own base package. Sort of like a buffet where you can add what you want on your plate instead of going through a menu and pick one single thing.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 24 2014 6:52 PM

For Bible Word Study, would appreciate ability to group (or segment) translation ring by morphology usage.  Would like to see translation choices grouped by cases, verb tenses and moods, which is a bit different than Case Frames.  Also would appreciate Apostolic Fathers section with translation ring so a Greek lemma word study could have Translation, Septuagint Translation, and Apostolic Fathers Translation sections.

Zondervan has a series of books with various perspectives so a wild idea is a topical perspectives explorer.  Related crazy idea is a theological perspectives explorer.  Prophecy explorer would be awesome: OT fulfilled in NT and yet to be fulfilled.  Quickly summarize divergent points of view with searches to dig deeper.

One more explorer idea (with map integration) is descendants of ancient people: e.g. trace Assyrians to modern day.

Astronomical crazy idea is integration of Hebrew calendar with historical timelines that includes Solar and Lunar eclipses.  Reading "Blood Moons" by Mark Biltz was fascinating, which described Hebrew word pictures using alphabetic characters.  Hence, another idea for Logos software is a Hebrew Word Picture explorer.

Bryan S.:
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Keeping software documentation up to date with bug fixes and new features is very expensive and time consuming
 Crying   Bo Ho for the folks making thousands that they would actually do thier job and give us at least a pdf manual

Observation: businesses that are remain profitable stay in business, which is different than bankruptcies of America Online, Atari, Borders, Commodore International, Silicon Graphics, Magnavox, Palm Computing, Polaroid, Zenith, ...  CompUSA and Kodak are substantially smaller after bankruptcy.

Bob Pritchett, Faithlife CEO, replied with a profitable observation (Income - Expenses = Profit) => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/58162/414162.aspx#414162  Another reply => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/58026/413124.aspx#413124 has 2012 profit insights:

Bob Pritchett:

Jacques:
He feels they should be ashamed for this kind of profit-margin, it's not reasonable.

What would a reasonable profit margin be? What profit margin does your friend think Logos has?

 

For what it's worth, I got our third-quarter financials earlier this week. For 2012 so far, the Logos profit margin was just about 0.38%. (Not 38%. Less than half of one percent.

 

Now I'm not looking for sympathy -- we're fine. It's better than that most years, and the first three quarters of this year reflect a lot of investment in Logos 5 that hadn't yet generated any revenue. (That's what we're doing now!) I expect we'll end the year with solid single-digit profitability, and we've beaten that in the past.

 

But the point is, we have to sell something in order to be here to serve you into the future. It's insanely expensive to develop software, especially when you have to develop the same software on Mac, Windows, Android/Kindle, iPhone/iPad, Web (and now Windows 8 RT!) simultaneously. While offering free support.

 

So I'll take the criticism that we're always trying to sell you more books -- it's true, and it's the only way we get paid. Though, at every upgrade cycle, it does condemn us to a lot of impassioned forum conversations about the injustice of upgrade bundles. :-)

 

I do welcome your input on a solution. Maybe the "free software" concept was a bad idea? Few other products I have have been offering free engine updates -- in any form -- since 1995. I've bought Word, Excel, Windows, Mac OS, etc. many times in those 17 years. Should Logos just move to paid upgrades, and stop making so many books? (It might be hard to make that change after all these years, but it's an interesting question.)

 

I appreciate your investing in our product, and I hope that you'll continue to believe it has been a good investment. And I want you to know that we're working hard to serve you better AND ensure that we're here for decades to come to support the investment you have made. Input on how to do that is always welcome.

 

(My favorite idea... just convince every Christian in America to pay $3 per month... then we could offer everybody all the content, support, and continued maintenance for a very low price! The only trick is getting everyone signed up at once...) :-)

 

-- Bob

 

Thankful for many, many valuable free software releases.  Thankful for many free Logos video tutorials.  Thankful for previous business decision to focus on improving software over providing a free manual.  Thankful for Logos 6 launch including forum threads for every new feature so am still learning Logos 6

Logos 6 Introduction offers => https://www.logos.com/intro-offers includes "Learn to Study the Bible" Mobile Education course.

Primary business purpose for Logos Bible Software is enabling efficient study so time is available for other activities.  Personally desire "better results faster" so would appreciate Logos study techniques and work flow tutorials using software features to better prepare messages quicker.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 106
Kristin Dantzler | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 24 2014 7:01 PM

Customizable base packages would be a major step forward which would remove the biggest point of reluctance to upgrade for me.

Posts 28281
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 25 2014 2:09 AM

Fifer Dad:

Customizable base packages would be a major step forward which would remove the biggest point of reluctance to upgrade for me.

The cross-grade options basically provide a build-it-yourself option don't they?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 3407
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 25 2014 6:11 AM

In a sense, customizable base packages cease to be base packages.

Posts 5315
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 25 2014 6:17 AM

SineNomine:

In a sense, customizable base packages cease to be base packages.

Yes

A request for customization of base packages is a question of product marketing and not about something new that can be brought to the bible study experience in Logos 7.   

Posts 15805
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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 27 2014 10:31 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Logos Help has a Table of Contents that does not fit in one screen shot:

Perhaps Help menu could be joined by Tutorial and Feature explanations.  For features that can be used offline, explanations need to be usable offline.  Online feature explanation should include insights why this feature requires internet access.

Page 6 of thread => https://community.logos.com/forums/t/98212.aspx?PageIndex=6 has many comments.   With Faithlife corporate focus on quality and service, adding digital resource(s) to Logos, Verbum, and Noet libraries to enable user discovery and use of awesome features would be appreciated.  The digital resource could have screen shots from tutorial videos plus embed video for viewing within application.  Another online embedded idea is Logos Support page integration with Help searches.

Wiki page => https://www.logos.com/product/48988/logos-6-whats-new-video grew out of a forum discussion about how to get started using Logos.  Dreaming of a Time Saving Tips Tool (or resource) that has many Tips and Tricks for faster application use.

Thankful for Logos 6 pre-publication of Morris Proctor's What's New => https://www.logos.com/product/48987/logos-6-whats-new

Noticed Logos 6 What's New video pre-publication => https://www.logos.com/product/48988/logos-6-whats-new-video progress is Almost There

Dreaming of Morris Proctor Mobile Education courses.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 934
Matthew | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 28 2014 6:35 AM

My suggestion would be create new/better ways to find relevant counseling and mental health material in our libraries. The way I envision this happening is to expand the tagging in counseling resources, beginning with those included in Chaplain's Library. We would then be able to search Factbook for various mental health and counseling terms and situations, possibly even specific diagnoses. Expanding on this idea (or perhaps central to it), I would very much like to see the DSM or ICD (or both!) available in Logos. If that ever happens, then Factbook would be able to display the actual diagnostic criteria from the DSM or ICD. Below the diagnostic criteria, I envision Factbook being able to present categories of information from our libraries such as: (1) additional information regarding clinical presentation beyond that which is included in the DSM or ICD, (2) clinically proven treatment methodologies, (3) treatment methodologies that have been proven to be ineffective or even harmful (this would be particularly helpful for those without clinical backgrounds), (4) special needs/considerations that ministers, family members, etc. may need to know about a diagnosis or clinical situation/condition, (5) relevant/helpful Bible passages, (6) links to reputable online resources (I will not go into a specific list here), (6) in general anywhere in our libraries where a particular diagnosis/situation/condition/etc. is discussed. Please note that these categories are just off the top of my head and most certainly could be improved upon. The final implementation would need to be such that it would be helpful both to those with and without clinical training/backgrounds. A few extra thoughts on how this might work:

(1) As a new tagging system (not sure if "system" is the right word) would need to be created in Logos for clinical diagnoses, the DSM (used in America) or ICD (used pretty much everywhere else) would be the two main candidates for what would be used as the foundation for such a system. However, the problem I foresee is that any system based on either of these books would "break" every time a new edition of the DSM or ICD is released, as new editions generally mean that new diagnoses and codes are created and old ones are removed or otherwise modified (for a rough comparison, think of broken links in Logos resources when we moved from BAGD to BDAG). An independent system of tagging created by Logos perhaps would be best, but it also would be more work.

(2) If the DSM or ICD were to be included in Logos, it would be AWESOME if Logos would create interactive media based on one/both of these. It would be a "mental health explorer" of sorts so that someone could use to quickly gain an overview of diagnostic categories, do differential diagnosis by comparing presenting issues and symptoms with diagnostic criteria, etc. 

(3) As this idea would potentially take Logos into slightly uncharted territory, FaithLife might benefit from (temporarily?) hiring or at least consulting with licensed professionals who have clinical training. If such individuals are already employed or used by FaithLife, then obviously disregard this point!

Logos has recognized the importance of mental health and counseling resources by creating a Chaplain's Library. I would LOVE to see new tools available to help us better utilize these resources!

Posts 1700
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 30 2014 5:22 AM

Please make sure it offers one finger selection of book, chapter, verse lookups that works consistently across all platforms.

Also, how about a default One Bible and several commentaries layout that can be opened quickly and by default please.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 30 2014 7:29 AM

JoshInRI:
Also, how about a default One Bible and several commentaries layout that can be opened quickly and by default please.

Are you aware of how to set up your own layouts - which would provide this?

And in Program Settings you can tell Logos to open to a particular layout which would provide the default setting you are asking for

Posts 808
Kevin Maples | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 30 2014 11:00 AM

I haven't read the many posts in this thread so forgive me if this is redundant. 

I'd like to see more search features. Such as a more advanced search interface for journals. If you search in an online database like ATLA you can limit the search to certain years, article type, etc...

Also, I'd like searches to be more intuitive. This may be a big request, I don't know enough about programming to know how big of a task this would be. However, if I search for a verse on Google the search engine can figure out what verse I'm looking for if I get any where close to the wording, Logos cannot. Sometimes I search for words NEAR each other and later find that results fell just outside of the word limit for NEAR. 

Posts 627
Ted Weis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 10 2015 12:25 PM

I'm too lazy to search through this thread, but one feature I want to see if the ability to search within specific chapters of any given book.

Posts 10
Jeff Saunders | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 27 2015 1:22 PM

Speed Comparable to Accordance. Spend a few weeks with Accordance and than make Logos just as fast. That's all I ask.

Posts 1031
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 27 2015 4:16 PM

Logos 7 really needs to be perfect;)

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

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