Logos by Subscription?

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This post has 90 Replies | 13 Followers

Posts 21
Gerard Shanley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 30 2014 9:48 AM

How much? Netflix is $8.99 / month, but satellite television can top $100 / month. Internet access can be $20-50+ / month. What price points should Logos offer? Just low price points with multiple options/collections so you can build your own subscription? Or a single, higher price with tons more content in the subscription?

I would like to see a lower cost with higher quantity of options but with limited access- for example like the Amazon lending library or old Netflix model where resources can be borrowed one or two at a time but for as long as you need it for a set monthly fee.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 30 2014 10:07 AM

Not for me, but it might interest some—so long as you continue to offer "books to own."  I suppose there might be an occasional work that would be of interest to rent, but not often.  Perhaps a preview period (I know, there is always the 30 day money back offer).

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 611
Graham Owen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 30 2014 10:25 AM

My initial reaction is that I am happy with the existing arrangement as an individual.

That said, the idea of a Church subscription that could be used by a number of users managed from a 'private' FaithLife group could be a great way to increase Bible literacy and general interest. This wold work best if there was a reasonably low cost of entry and if the 'owner' has some control over the resources that were included in the subscription.

This ability to define the content would be great as one of the problems that I have had in the past using the Starter System or one of the Nelson packages was them not containing books that I found useful. Ironically I often buy printed copies of books that I have read in Logos for others.

God Bless

Graham

Pastor - NTCOG Basingstoke

Posts 2956
Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 30 2014 11:03 AM

I think It would be more important , if Logos could lower the  prices of their resources,so that more people could afford to purchase them.As for me, I don't have the habit of borrowing books. If I think something is necessary for me, if I can I buy it,if not even if the person insists me to borrow it I don't take it. Please Logos what ever you dicide,don't forget your customers like me ,who want to have more confidence on having their own resources. I completely disagree with the new proposals. I am happy with the monthly payment ,but for non-stop monthly fees ,I don't make available myself for that.

Blessings in Christ.

Posts 21
Gerard Shanley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 30 2014 11:04 AM

Another thought: I think it is of crucial importance to have Mobile Ed and the associated resources available in a more affordable model such as a subscription. I cannot overstate the value I place on the Mobile Ed courses I have taken. I recommend them to anyone who will listen- however, for most people (particularly non-Logos users) they are simply too expensive. I have purchased most of them and am delighted to have them in my library- but a  subscription would give them the much wider circulation they deserve.

Posts 1031
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 30 2014 12:59 PM

Alarm Bells

I think there is a difficult balance to be found here. If you make the price of a rental library too low then it devalues the investment we have already made. If you make it too high then it becomes daft to rent when you can do a payment plan. Even the thought that my 5k books would be available to rent cheaply makes me feel upset about how much I've spent. It could take years of rental at netflix prices before I would have spent this much!

I think the only time it would have helped me to rent was when I was doing my college studies and had to refer to books I was not interested in owning but now do own. Mostly I value owning the content. I do wish to be able to use Logos on Linux and Chromebook. For me that would mean having as much functionality as the ipad app on the website.

The real reason people don't buy? From my experience talking to colleagues and other students is... to do with what is in and out of the base packages. I think it's hard for people to understand that they are getting value for money when they feel like they are buying things which don't interest them just to get the things which do.

I think one of the things which would help sales most would be the option to get the equivalent discount of dynamic pricing by deselecting content from the base package which we don't want. I think you also need to add dynamic pricing to be able to purchase more than one base package at a time. I have built what is for me the perfect library but I had to do it by getting about 4 different base packages. It has been quite confusing actually. For example I have more bible dictionaries than anyone needs and two sets of church fathers, Protestant and Catholic I also have about 20 beginners greek and hebrew books but my interest lies in the heavier volumes etc. I understand that leaving these things out would not affect the price much but every little helps towards the books I do want!

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 30 2014 1:05 PM

John Goodman:
The real reason people don't buy? From my experience talking to colleagues and other students is... to do with what is in and out of the base packages. I think it's hard for people to understand that they are getting value for money when they feel like they are buying things which don't interest them just to get the things which do.

You may have a point there.  Why not a Chinese restaurant type menu:  Pick x from group A, y from group B and z from group C?

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 521
Russ White | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 30 2014 1:31 PM

Nathan:
The question was, what subscription services would we be interested in.  Not what was cost efficient or easy for Logos.  There ARE companies out there that are offering virtual desktops, Amazon is doing it now in the $25-60/mo. range if I remember right.  Challenging yes, impossible, maybe but it seems a good fit for Logos in many ways.

Will you think it's reasonable when the price doubles to account for the cost of the "free" network currently in use? Probably not...

The point I was, and still am, making is this -- an all online system is of limited value. I know Bob and I are in conflict over this, and I know a lot of users think the cloud is the best thing since sliced bread. I live on the other side of the cloud, dealing with the companies that build the thing. I can tell you all is not well on this side of the cloud, and there's going to come a point where real money is going to need to be spent to pay for the network. 

So, subscriptions are fine -- so long as they are --

- They are limited time situations, where I can plan access into the subscription cost.

- They are not the primary or only model to access these resources

I don't know how to make that happen with the sort of content Logos is designed to provide. It's not like a movie, or even a fiction book. Might work well for Vyrso, and maybe for some higher end journal collections, but I don't see how it would work for systematic theologies, or commentaries, etc.

Russ

Posts 1059
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 30 2014 2:07 PM

George Somsel:

You may have a point there.  Why not a Chinese restaurant type menu:  Pick x from group A, y from group B and z from group C?

I would love this.  If the difference in price between resources is too much of an obstacle, it could be done in dollars rather than number of resources.  In other words, pick up to $x from group A, $y from group B and $z from group C.

Posts 790
James Hiddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 30 2014 3:06 PM

George Somsel:

John Goodman:
The real reason people don't buy? From my experience talking to colleagues and other students is... to do with what is in and out of the base packages. I think it's hard for people to understand that they are getting value for money when they feel like they are buying things which don't interest them just to get the things which do.

You may have a point there.  Why not a Chinese restaurant type menu:  Pick x from group A, y from group B and z from group C?

Sort of a build your own base package. I would like that Yes

Posts 352
Cynthia Tucker | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 30 2014 3:41 PM

John Goodman:
I think one of the things which would help sales most would be the option to get the equivalent discount of dynamic pricing by deselecting content from the base package which we don't want. I think you also need to add dynamic pricing to be able to purchase more than one base package at a time. I have built what is for me the perfect library but I had to do it by getting about 4 different base packages. It has been quite confusing actually. For example I have more bible dictionaries than anyone needs and two sets of church fathers, Protestant and Catholic I also have about 20 beginners greek and hebrew books but my interest lies in the heavier volumes etc. I understand that leaving these things out would not affect the price much but every little helps towards the books I do want!

Agree! I'm going through this now. I have Standard Gold and Baptist Diamond. I want what's in Refomed Diamond and Standard Diamond, but really only the commentaries and biblical studies, not interested in all the rest.

Author of the Chronological Word Truth Life Bible Series

WordTruthLifeBible.com

Posts 1036
Tom Reynolds | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 30 2014 3:51 PM

It seems to me that renting only makes sense for things you consume (movies, TV, novels) not things that you reference again and again and want to go back to and review your notes, etc. That's the reason I have no interest in the new Office 365. I'm still using Office 2007 and I would upgrade but not if I have to pay yearly. I'd rather pay $300 up front and use it as long as I want.

I live overseas most of the time and there is no guarantee that I will have Internet access at any given time so I wouldn't be signing up at any rate. The less cloud stuff the better in my opinion.

Posts 2956
Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 30 2014 6:24 PM

John Goodman:

Alarm Bells

I think there is a difficult balance to be found here. If you make the price of a rental library too low then it devalues the investment we have already made. If you make it too high then it becomes daft to rent when you can do a payment plan. Even the thought that my 5k books would be available to rent cheaply makes me feel upset about how much I've spent. It could take years of rental at netflix prices before I would have spent this much!

I think the only time it would have helped me to rent was when I was doing my college studies and had to refer to books I was not interested in owning but now do own. Mostly I value owning the content. I do wish to be able to use Logos on Linux and Chromebook. For me that would mean having as much functionality as the ipad app on the website.

The real reason people don't buy? From my experience talking to colleagues and other students is... to do with what is in and out of the base packages. I think it's hard for people to understand that they are getting value for money when they feel like they are buying things which don't interest them just to get the things which do.

I think one of the things which would help sales most would be the option to get the equivalent discount of dynamic pricing by deselecting content from the base package which we don't want. I think you also need to add dynamic pricing to be able to purchase more than one base package at a time. I have built what is for me the perfect library but I had to do it by getting about 4 different base packages. It has been quite confusing actually. For example I have more bible dictionaries than anyone needs and two sets of church fathers, Protestant and Catholic I also have about 20 beginners greek and hebrew books but my interest lies in the heavier volumes etc. I understand that leaving these things out would not affect the price much but every little helps towards the books I do want!

Blessings in Christ.

Posts 2956
Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 30 2014 6:25 PM

Tom Reynolds:
It seems to me that renting only makes sense for things you consume (movies, TV, novels) not things that you reference again and again and want to go back to and review your notes, etc. That's the reason I have no interest in the new Office 365. I'm still using Office 2007 and I would upgrade but not if I have to pay yearly. I'd rather pay $300 up front and use it as long as I want.

Blessings in Christ.

Posts 126
James Milne Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 30 2014 7:19 PM

I agree with Gerard. For those of us working our way through the Mobile Ed modules, it would be useful to have the facility to pay a small rental to access the relevant articles in resources we do not own. Then if we like what we see we could have the rental fee deducted from the purchase price of the resource.

Posts 215
Dan | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Nov 30 2014 8:31 PM

Whyndell Grizzard:

Not interested in subscriptions at all, at any level. I want to own what I pay for. 

Couldn't agree more. I rent things I use once  (like movies). I own things I use over and over (like a library).

Posts 151
Willie | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 1 2014 12:17 AM

I’m in 100% agreement with the sentiment expressed several times throughout this thread, “Not interested in subscriptions at all, at any level.  I want to own what I pay for.” 

If a primary goal of this idea is to attract new customers, I was very recently a potential new Logos customer (having only made my initial purchase 7 months ago).  With that experience still fresh in my mind, I can tell you the prospect of a subscription service would not have done anything to entice me to become a new customer, and in fact, it would have scared me away because it would have caused me to wonder whether Logos’ business model might eventually change in a way that might adversely affect my significant financial investment.

I hope this is helpful.

Posts 468
BKMitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 1 2014 12:52 AM

George Somsel:

Not for me, but it might interest some—so long as you continue to offer "books to own."  I suppose there might be an occasional work that would be of interest to rent, but not often.  Perhaps a preview period (I know, there is always the 30 day money back offer).

I agree with George Somsel!

חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי

Posts 1281
toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 1 2014 6:23 AM

I am generally against subscriptions of the type of content Logos provides. I buy a media subscription  for presentations, but it is "download as much of our content as you want and you get to keep what you downloaded when your subscription expires"

Another issue - even if we subscribe to Logos content, we MUST have offline access. Recent server outage is a huge reminder. We don't use Logos for entertainment when we can shrug it off if it is not accessible - we use it to change lives and we are dependent on it. Thus, "Logos by subscription" must be dependable - offline access.

Thirdly, I would not even consider it, if it was not All-Inclusive. What I mean by that, give me access to the ENTIRE library, but maybe limit it to 10 books per month, with the ability to upgrade in increments of 5, for example.

Price. This is where you can really shine or shoot yourself in the foot. It depends who you want to target with subscriptions. If it is a full-time pastor, I doubt one can pay over $30/month year after year after year.

Posts 2956
Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 1 2014 7:31 AM

Willie D.:
I’m in 100% agreement with the sentiment expressed several times throughout this thread, “Not interested in subscriptions at all, at any level.  I want to own what I pay for.”

 

. I hope Logos will respect itheir  customers interest.The new concept of subscriptions decrease  motivation  to make any further purchases.

Blessings in Christ.

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