Anyone seeing performance issues with Logos 6 on Windows?

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Posts 54
Andrew | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Dec 6 2014 6:38 PM

Anyone else notice that Logos 6 is sluggish compared to Logos 5?

I run 64-bit WIndows 7 in a virtual machine (VM Workstation 11). Historically, I used 4 GB of RAM, 1 CPU, and 2 cores to run Logos 5 and I never considered it slow.

Now that I have version 6 running, things run very slow. For example, selecting verses (click and drag) is very slow. Sufficiently slow that it is just plain annoying.

For Windows performance issues, i usually just throw memory and CPUs at it, so, I gave it 8 GB of RAM and 2 CPUs (4 cores). No improvement.

I fired up the resource monitor and I see three processes.

Logos.exe with 60 threads

LogosCEF.exe with 11 threads

LogosCEF.exe with 6 threads.

and I see no particular load. When I select text, I still see no particular load, it is just plain slow.

Admittedly, I updated VMWare Workstation 11 (from version 10), so that might also be the problem. Just curious if anyone else sees any particular performance issues.

The extra RAM and CPUs had no particular affect on performance. Not entirely sure that Logos is really the issue, but, this combination works great as a development environment and the other applications do not appear to be affected, only Logos.

Just trying to figure it out so that I can decide if I want to keep running 6 or try to figure out how to move back to Logos 5. Or just live with it so that i can keep using the new resources and such.

Posts 1699
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 6 2014 8:27 PM

I think they are trying with updates.  I am in trial mode myself.  I think 5.0 worked better on my Surface Pro (original) Windows Tablet.  Sigh.

Posts 2237
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 6 2014 9:43 PM

I've experienced some quirkiness. It runs well on Win 7 and a bit slow on one Win 8.1 box and fine on another Win 8.1 machine. 

Logos 6 is probably not yet a good candidate for virtual and it can use all the RAM you've got for at least indexing and/or lots of windows.

6 seems to be faster overall, but it's still a bit early. I wouldn't go back.

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Posts 54
Andrew | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 6 2014 9:59 PM

Since it runs in a VM, I can limit what it has access to, but, the machine itself is pretty robust; for example, 32 GB of RAM. I just don't usually give huge amounts of RAM to a VM unless I expect it to need it so that if I want to fire-up another couple of VMs i am still good to go. I even chose a CPU with 6 dies to improve multi-threaded performance.

Nice to know that I am not the only one.

The strange thing to me is that it seemed to be doing nothing in that it did not register any significant increased activity while doing things such as scrolling or selecting text, it is just slow.

Sadly, in my quest for better performance in this type of situation, I purchased a beefy Intel Haswell processor, and it seems that these have a bug in the Transactional Synchronization Extensions, which means that this is probably disabled by the O/S to avoid any bugs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transactional_Synchronization_Extensions

Very sad. Long shot that would be the problem, however.

Posts 3037
Milkman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 7 2014 5:32 AM

At times a bit sluggish, especially loading the library or opening up a layout that has many resources. Could be something in the background running that interferes, but compared to other versions of Logos, not as smooth.

I would say though, that opening both the program itself and the L6 home page is much quicker. So I can take the 'good' with the 'bad'.

mm.

mm.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 7 2014 7:33 AM

Milkman:

At times a bit sluggish, especially loading the library or opening up a layout that has many resources. Could be something in the background running that interferes, but compared to other versions of Logos, not as smooth.

I would say though, that opening both the program itself and the L6 home page is much quicker. So I can take the 'good' with the 'bad'.

mm.

What I see: highlighting is painfully slow. I select text and hit "Y" (for yellow - or any other keyboard shortcut I assigned to a highlight) and it takes over ten seconds to apply the highlight - sometimes fifteen. I have switched to a "fire and forget" scenario, i.e. I highlight and go on reading, scroll down, highlight a bit more etc but actively disregard the fact that I see no highlight - and I know that when I come back later the highlight will be there. I think this came with 6.0 stable or so and I hope Logos will remediate this some day...

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 3003
David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 7 2014 7:37 AM

NB.Mick:

Milkman:

At times a bit sluggish, especially loading the library or opening up a layout that has many resources. Could be something in the background running that interferes, but compared to other versions of Logos, not as smooth.

I would say though, that opening both the program itself and the L6 home page is much quicker. So I can take the 'good' with the 'bad'.

mm.

What I see: highlighting is painfully slow. I select text and hit "Y" (for yellow - or any other keyboard shortcut I assigned to a highlight) and it takes over ten seconds to apply the highlight - sometimes fifteen. I have switched to a "fire and forget" scenario, i.e. I highlight and go on reading, scroll down, highlight a bit more etc but actively disregard the fact that I see no highlight - and I know that when I come back later the highlight will be there. I think this came with 6.0 stable or so and I hope Logos will remediate this some day...

I have noticed this as well but assumed it was my computer.

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Posts 3937
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 7 2014 7:37 AM

Andrew:

Since it runs in a VM, I can limit what it has access to, but, the machine itself is pretty robust; for example, 32 GB of RAM. I just don't usually give huge amounts of RAM to a VM unless I expect it to need it so that if I want to fire-up another couple of VMs i am still good to go. I even chose a CPU with 6 dies to improve multi-threaded performance.

Nice to know that I am not the only one.

The strange thing to me is that it seemed to be doing nothing in that it did not register any significant increased activity while doing things such as scrolling or selecting text, it is just slow.

Sadly, in my quest for better performance in this type of situation, I purchased a beefy Intel Haswell processor, and it seems that these have a bug in the Transactional Synchronization Extensions, which means that this is probably disabled by the O/S to avoid any bugs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transactional_Synchronization_Extensions

Very sad. Long shot that would be the problem, however.

I am running Logos in a VM. I have no problems. But then I've given my VM half of the available system resources IE 4 cores, and 16gb of ram. Since moving to coding that supports 64 bits, its able to use a lot more ram. 4gb is probably a limiting factor. I'd increase the amount of ram that it has access too, and perhaps the number of cores as well.

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Posts 3937
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 7 2014 7:42 AM

Andrew:

The extra RAM and CPUs had no particular affect on performance. Not entirely sure that Logos is really the issue, but, this combination works great as a development environment and the other applications do not appear to be affected, only Logos.

Just trying to figure it out so that I can decide if I want to keep running 6 or try to figure out how to move back to Logos 5. Or just live with it so that i can keep using the new resources and such.



Just noticed this part. I should note I am also using an older version of VMware player (6.0.0 build-1295980) and windows 10 beta. It sounds like you are using an Intel CPU, which is likely faster than my AMD 8350. Unless you have an older gen i5 or i3.

As to your final point, if you were to switch back to L5, you would keep your new resources unless you returned whatever you bought to bring you up to L6.

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 2829
Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 7 2014 8:31 AM

abondservant:
I am also using an older version of VMware player (6.0.0 build-1295980) and windows 10 beta

You might also want to check the amount of memory being used by the virtual graphics card. Logos uses memory, but it also demands a good graphics card, and it's possible that a virtual graphics card with less memory will perform poorly - this is compared to the performance of most modern day graphics adapters being used by Logos outside of a VM, where hardware acceleration is used (little or no effort on the CPU). In a VM, the graphics operations are fighting for CPU access along with everything else, creating a bigger bottleneck. The driver that is being used in the guest-VM is the VMware VGA driver and lots of the heavy lifting is done by the CPU instead of the GPU (further taxing your system).

Posts 1228
Ron | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 7 2014 2:08 PM

The main issue I've noticed is delayed response in the library (scrolling stutters; when typing in the filter box, it lags behind my actual typing; etc), though I haven't yet tried any highlighting.  This is on a high-end Core i7 (Ivy Bridge), 32GB RAM, Intel SSD, GeForce GTX 660 with Windows 10.  This is also a completely fresh install of Logos.

Posts 54
Andrew | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 7 2014 6:45 PM

I did some testing... in hind site I should have done before and after testing, but, my first step was to tell VMWare to "upgrade" the VM so that I would use the latest hardware definitions as supported by the latest version of Workstation. Had not occurred to me until I read some of the posts here (not that it was specifically mentioned).

I then looked to see if there was an obvious way to increase the video RAM as presented to Windows inside the VM. I saw some old posts about doing it, but figured I would not go down that path for now (since I don't know if it is still supported in the latest versions of VMWare).

So, I opened a page shown in half the screen and I hit the "page down" key. It took roughly 1.8 seconds (according to my pocket watch) before any change was shown.

Next, I did a test where I select roughly one page of text (two pages shown, so, this uses half the screen). This took generally just under three seconds to select a single page with no scrolling going on.

Next, I opened "God's Word Translation", navigated to Ephesians 5, and attempted to select all of chapter 5 using the mouse. Most of the time is waiting for Logos to respond, scroll, etc. I can do this in roughly 7 seconds.

I paid money to upgrade my books. If it bothers me enough, I will just call and ask them to mark me as on version 5, or just play around with running the Android version in an emulator. Might do that anyway just for fun.

Nice to know that i am not the only person seeing serious lags in this particular aspect.

I am pretty certain this is not related to underpowered hardware, although the video card is only an NVidia based GEForce 650. I usually don't spend over $200 when building a machine, and this one was closer to $100 on sale when I built the machine. It is suitable for playing full screen 3D first person shooter games on my computer and I can render MPG4 video in faster than real time, so it should be enough to run Logos in a VM. $600 CPU a few months ago. Currently testing in a VM with 8 GB of RAM and 4 CPU cores allocated to it.

Posts 2829
Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 8 2014 3:22 AM

You did some good analysis Andrew, just to offer one suggestion I still wonder about the potential bottleneck of your video card. One thing you could do that might be easy, without getting into the memory allocation per your post above, would be to close Logos, go to Control Panel - System - Advanced System Settings - Advanced tab - Performance button, and click the button for "Adjust for best performance" - this turns all the eye candy off. Then click OK to get out of the windows you brought up, Open Logos and see how it runs compared to before. If it runs the same, then I think it's safe to say the video card is not a bottleneck. 

Posts 3937
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 8 2014 3:54 AM

I think it may be the VM player. Have you tried using Logos outside of the VM on your pc?

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Posts 54
Andrew | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 8 2014 5:40 AM

My primary desktop is Linux and Logos is not supported on Linux.... so, I cannot run Logos from outside a VM; sadly.

Posts 54
Andrew | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 8 2014 5:47 AM

Really good idea. I will follow-up on this after work. I did run a performance test and it rates things on a scale of 1 to 7.9 such as:

  • Processor - 7.6
  • RAM - 7.9
  • Graphics - 5.9
  • Gaming Graphics - 5.3
  • Hard Disk - 6.5

It seems that Gaming Graphics is the lowest score of 5.3 with regular graphics at 5.9. This is currently set to let windows choose what is best for my machine. Anyone else run some stats on their machines who see slowdowns?

Posts 2829
Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 8 2014 6:30 AM

Andrew:
It seems that Gaming Graphics is the lowest score of 5.3 with regular graphics at 5.9. This is currently set to let windows choose what is best for my machine. Anyone else run some stats on their machines who see slowdowns?

You'll see when you select the best performance button that Let Windows choose has a lot of stuff turned on. If you find it runs better you can experiment with the individual check boxes to see what impacts performance the most, if anything! Good luck.

Posts 275
Bob Soule | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 8 2014 10:36 AM

Ron:

The main issue I've noticed is delayed response in the library (scrolling stutters; when typing in the filter box, it lags behind my actual typing; etc), though I haven't yet tried any highlighting.  This is on a high-end Core i7 (Ivy Bridge), 32GB RAM, Intel SSD, GeForce GTX 660 with Windows 10.  This is also a completely fresh install of Logos.

I notice this in the beta for 6.0a, there is an active case and apparently still not resolved as Logos 6.0a RC2 still has this issue.

Lag with Library in 6.0a beta 

Posts 54
Andrew | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 26 2015 7:40 PM

I just wanted to say that with the latest update to version 6.0b SR-1, that entire "runs very slow" problem has gone away. I test after every update. So, no idea what they did, but it fixed the issues. I can now select and scroll without issues (well, a few quick tests say i can anyway).

Posts 54
Andrew | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2015 7:15 AM

It turns out that the performance problem was related to using the nVidia proprietary driver on Linux. Reverting to the nouveau driver removes 3D capability, but then allowed VMWare to run this with no performance issues. I have not yet tried things like turning off 3D for the VMWare driver or profiling to see where the interaction issue is between Logos and the video driver.

I will admit that telling someone to change their video driver to one that will not easily allow games to be played seems heavy handed, but, it is a pointer into the root cause of the problem.

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