Exporting Hebrew Words

Page 1 of 2 (21 items) 1 2 Next >
This post has 20 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 11
Sharon L. Gresham | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Dec 9 2014 8:53 AM

I am writing a dissertation that includes both Hebrew and Greek terms (LXX and NT). Exporting the Greek is no problem. However, exporting the Hebrew words has been an interesting adventure!

Per Logos tech instructions, I have highlighted the word in the MT (Biblia Hebraica) and either hit Ctrl P or the pull-down menu and told the program to export the word into an open or new document. Regardless which I choose--open or new--I have two problems. First, the SBL Hebrew font is 20 pt. I need 11. When I try to reduce the font, I get circles for consonants and the vowel points underneath the circles. Second, if I export into the open document, I get a conglomeration of my paragraph going single spaced, the sentences becoming right justified without the right-justified icon being lit, and the word plopping into the middle of that mess.

I have tried to copy the lemma or manuscript form and paste that form into the document without using the exporting tool. I get the Hebrew letters in reverse order. Sometimes cutting and pasting the letters in proper order works better than using the exporting tool, but I prefer the tech method if possible.

I have spent more time trying to insert the Hebrew terms this morning than writing text for the dissertation. Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!!!

Sharon Gresham

Posts 22265
Forum MVP
Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 9 2014 9:10 AM

Hi Sharon - and welcome to the forums

Couple of question:

  • are you using Windows or Mac OS?
  • which word processor are you using and which version?

Graham

Posts 1489
Forum MVP
Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 9 2014 9:17 AM

I tried to copy from Logos BHS5 to Word 2007 for Windows, just using the ordinary Crtl C and then changed the size to 11 and it seems to work.

I use Times New Roman font in Word.

Then I tried the Crtl P and then "copy to clipboard" and it works too, and gives the citation as a bonus, but does notgive the book, chapter nor verse Esther 3:9:


אִם־עַל־הַמֶּ֣לֶךְ ט֔וֹב יִכָּתֵ֖ב לְאַבְּדָ֑ם וַעֲשֶׂ֨רֶת אֲלָפִ֜ים כִּכַּר־כֶּ֗סֶף אֶשְׁקוֹל֙ עַל־יְדֵי֙ עֹשֵׂ֣י הַמְּלָאכָ֔ה לְהָבִ֖יא אֶל־גִּנְזֵ֥י הַמֶּֽלֶךְ


Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia: with Werkgroep Informatica, Vrije Universiteit Morphology; Bible. O.T. Hebrew. Werkgroep Informatica, Vrije Universiteit. (2006). Logos Bible Software.


Exported from Logos Bible Software, 19:13 December 9, 2014.

Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 8.1

Posts 112
Chad M. Foster | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 9 2014 9:31 AM

Sharon, 

Graham's questions are going to be critical.  If you are using a Mac you are going to need to use a program like LibreOffice or Mellel.  Word and Pages on Mac are almost useless for working with Hebrew.  It struggles with the consonants (like you mentioned) but then gets really buggy when vowels come into play. 

Posts 11
Sharon L. Gresham | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 9 2014 10:44 AM

Graham, thanks for asking. I use Windows 7 and Office 2013.

Posts 11
Sharon L. Gresham | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 9 2014 10:45 AM

Chad,

Good point. I am on a PC with Word, Windows 7, and Office 2013.

Posts 11
Sharon L. Gresham | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 9 2014 10:46 AM

Veli,

I just tried to use the Ctrl C or just copy and paste, and I also tried the Ctrl P, and once again, I got the mess. I have not had trouble with verses, just words. Thanks for your input.

Posts 22265
Forum MVP
Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 10 2014 12:13 AM

Hi Sharon

Sharon L. Gresham:
First, the SBL Hebrew font is 20 pt

Looking into this a bit further it appears that the resources use 20pt font as per https://community.logos.com/forums/p/70925/493728.aspx#493728 

And when I copy a Hebrew word it also comes across in 20pt

But I am able to reduce it to 11 without any problem - this is using Office 365 (which includes Word 2013) on Windows 8.1

What font are you using? I am using SBL Hebrew

Graham

Posts 11
Sharon L. Gresham | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 11 2014 7:10 AM

Graham,

I am using whatever the Logos program has, generally SBL font. It does come with the 20 font. However, most of the time, when I try to reduce it to 11, it gives me circles with vowel points under them.

Thanks,

Sharon

Posts 2499
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 11 2014 8:54 AM

It should not be doing that at all. I don't know what the problem is because it works on my system.

As a workaround, paste into a blank Notepad document, then copy and paste from the Notepad document. This has the effect of stripping all metadata.

Posts 581
LogosEmployee
Alan Palmer (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 12 2014 10:54 AM

Sharon, like many other users here, I was not able to reproduce your problem when I tried. Perhaps you could post a screencast or something to help us visualize what you're seeing.

One thing to try in Word is to paste using various options such as "Keep text only", "Merge formatting", or "Keep formatting". These change the way Word tries to handle differences in the source content that is on the clipboard and the document you are pasting into. It would be interesting to know if one of those options give you different results.

Posts 10645
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 12 2014 12:25 PM

Chad M. Foster:
 If you are using a Mac you are going to need to use a program like LibreOffice or Mellel.  Word and Pages on Mac are almost useless for working with Hebrew.  It struggles with the consonants (like you mentioned) but then gets really buggy when vowels come into play. 

I am able to paste Hebrew text into Word for Mac 2011, but it does take a good bit of patience and planning to mix Hebrew and English on the same line. Can't evaluate typing in Hebrew as I could not do that in any case Big Smile However, I must mention that Word for Mac does not recognize SBL Hebrew as a legitimate font.

Posts 4806
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 12 2014 1:28 PM

I don't know who is "in charge" of things like this, but in my opinion, Hebrew fonts are woefully misattributed when it comes to point sizes. Typical English point sizes like 10 or 12 make the consonants nearly unrecognizable blobs, and the vowel points are so small they barely constitute a pixel. I nearly always bump Hebrew fonts at least 10 points when I insert them into my English text, but this inevitably causes the problem of expanded distance between lines, even though the actual Hebrew text ends up being about the same size as the English text size-wise.

This is a constitutional design failure, and I don't see how it could ever get fixed. If I were king, I would just change the attribution of what constitutes Hebrew text point sizes. What is called 20 would now be 10, or thereabouts. Problem solved...only, it never will be.

Posts 11
Sharon L. Gresham | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 15 2014 10:50 AM

Alan,

Thank you for your input. I confess, in trying to find your suggestions,"Keep text only"; "Merge formatting"; or "Keep formatting," I did not see where you got those. Where may I find them, please?

Per your suggestion to visualize my problem, I have attached this document: 3817.HEBREW FONT ISSUES.docx to show my consternation. While this piece is not a full text, it shows what happened when I tried to export the Hebrew text for double heart from Psalm 12:2. The page says the line is left justified, but it looks right justified. The Hebrew words cause difficulty in trying to place them in the text where I need them. Sooo, your help is appreciated!

Posts 20
Alan Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 15 2014 11:01 AM

Sharon, what you are describing, and indeed what is present in your document, has to do with some of the issues that come with bi-directional text (that is content with mixed left-to-right and right-to-left flowing words).

In addition to individual words have directionality, paragraphs do as well. In the document you provided, your paragraphs which were aligned to the right had their direction set to RTL (right to left). See screenshot from Word:

I may be wrong, but I believe these formatting options are only visible to you if you have Hebrew (or some other RTL language) set up as an available keyboard layout in your system language preferences.

When I change the paragraph direction in Word to LTR I get the following layout (which may be closer to what you are looking for):

I'm not an expert in Word but I do hope this helps at least move you in the right direction (pun intended).

Posts 581
LogosEmployee
Alan Palmer (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 15 2014 11:03 AM

Oops, I posted that from my personal account instead of work account. Embarrassed Rest assured, it's still me. Big Smile

Posts 11
Sharon L. Gresham | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 15 2014 11:16 AM

Lee,

I tried the NotePad and did not get good results there, either. Thank you for the suggestion, though!

Posts 11
Sharon L. Gresham | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 15 2014 11:23 AM

Alan,

Your idea helped. I will have to work with it, but at least the Hebrew words are in parentheses! Smile Hopefully, I can tweak the document whenever I need more Hebrew--and I need to use a lot more!!

I appreciate your time and information,

Sharon

Posts 11
Sharon L. Gresham | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 15 2014 11:24 AM

Graham,

I never thanked you for your welcome to the forum. Thank you!! I appreciate all that everyone has done to try to help.

Posts 11
Sharon L. Gresham | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 15 2014 11:26 AM

Yes

Page 1 of 2 (21 items) 1 2 Next > | RSS