Logos 6 is Slow

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This post has 106 Replies | 11 Followers

Posts 2
Jared French | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 13 2015 11:56 AM

I have been a Logos user for several years, but this is the first time I am posting to the forums.  I want to concur with everyone here that something is up with Logos 6. At first, i blamed hardware on my Mac Mini, which is newer, but when my upgraded Windows laptop started exhibiting the same behavior, I started watching Logos more carefully.  Logos 5 ran like a champ on my Windows laptop (Win 8.1 64, quad-core i7 3615QM, 8 GB of Ram, SSDs) but Logos 6 on both platforms is sluggish on low processing, memory access, and disk access activities.  Seems like bad calls within the Logos 6 code, not the hardware or OS.

Whatever they have done, it is really affecting the whole Logos 6 experience with massive slow down from scrolling to opening resources.  I wish I could identify what patch I first start noticing this problem!!! None of the links posted here seem to get at the core.  This is beyond a OS X Yosemite and Hebrew problem... Has anyone heard anything for Logos acknowledging the problem with an ETA on fix?

Posts 275
Bob Soule | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 13 2015 1:54 PM

e

Jared French:

 Has anyone heard anything for Logos acknowledging the problem with an ETA on fix?

It seem to creep in after 6.0a was released as I remember. At any rate it would be nice to here from Faithlife on this issue.

Posts 576
LogosEmployee
Alan Palmer (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 13 2015 2:45 PM

First, let me respond to the OP:

James C.:
Scrolling is not smooth and opening up books is slow. Right or left arrowing to the next book is slow.

An initial step when diagnosing resource scrolling issues is to close all other panels and disable all of your visual filters. This can help isolate a problem that may exist with a particular panel, resource, or visual filter. Screencasts and logs are particularly valuable starting points for developers as they help us to understand exactly what you are describing.

Now, to the thread as a whole:

Jared French:
Has anyone heard anything for Logos acknowledging the problem with an ETA on fix?

It is difficult to acknowledge generalities. There have been several performance-related issues that have been fixed recently and most of them were isolated using a combination of screencasts and/or user logs (notably with sampling if on Mac).

This isn't to say we are sitting on our hands regarding the general issues that have been raised. Quite to the contrary! There are already projects underway to improve our automated benchmark tests and to develop some better tools (not unlike the sampling feature on Mac) in order to help diagnose specific user issues in real world scenarios. The later is important because of the variety of hardware configurations and library sizes/combinations.

Bob Soule:
At any rate it would be nice to here from Faithlife on this issue.

Unfortunately, it is not just one issue. Many performance issues have already been addressed (as means of example, Hebrew rendering on Mac comes to mind) or are being actively worked on (your other thread). Unwittingly, the OP created a sounding board for a variety of performance issues which have all coalesced into this thread in such a way as to make it difficult to isolate any one particular issue. It becomes difficult and intimidating to create an "official" response to such a thread. Even here, my guess is that someone will misunderstand my response and use it as further evidence that we somehow are either willfully ignorant or don't care about their issue. I can assure you that neither is true.

My advice for getting the best response is to keep the thread focused on one specific area of poor performance. Then, if possible, provide a screencast and logs showing your specific issue. This provides a starting point for us to isolate and identify the actual root cause and provide a fix.

I don't want to detract from the OP's individual issue anymore than I have to; so feel free to create a new thread with your issue and the additional information mentioned, and I will respond to each individually.

Posts 16
Ken J | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 13 2015 5:25 PM

OK... Let's start with startup time. Big Smile

I have a Windows 64 system, I3770K Quad Core CPU, 16GB of RAM, 256GB SSD C Drive, Logos 6 installed on a 1TB WD Caviar Black D drive, and a 50Mbps internet connection. Just to make sure there wasn't any upgrade grunge hanging around, I totally uninstalled Logos6 and reinstalled using the current installer. My resource library is 5.8GB. And I let indexing complete.

The splash screen is present for anywhere from 30-60 seconds. The Sync message doesn't always show up, but can be present for another 30 seconds. Link to a screencap video (7MB) can be found here: http://www.tablazonvalley.com/Logos6.mp4. Not sure where the log files are located - I can grab those if you point me towards the folder.

Posts 21731
Forum MVP
Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 13 2015 9:15 PM

Hi Ken

Please start a new thread with this information so it can be looked at separately 

Graham

Posts 275
Bob Soule | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 14 2015 7:18 AM

Alan Palmer (Faithlife):

I don't want to detract from the OP's individual issue anymore than I have to; so feel free to create a new thread with your issue and the additional information mentioned, and I will respond to each individually.

Alan thanks for the response, Logos 6 is a complex program with lots of parts and I agree general statements about performance problems are difficult if not impossible to deal with as without problem identification you can't provide a fix. With that said three issues i previously reported on a fast windows 7 machine seem to be preforming well enough now with the latest 6.0b RC2, that is lag when filtering library and smooth scrolling as well delay for paging down a resource. So, progress is being made from my perspective.

However, I do have another thread open https://community.logos.com/forums/t/98800.aspx for syntax search. If it has not been looked at I just wanted to bring it to your attention.

Posts 24
Elias Brasil de Souza | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 14 2015 6:58 PM

I’m having the same problem. I have the latest and most powerful Macbook pro and Logos 6 is running terribly slow. Hope developers will address this issue soon.

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 14 2015 9:13 PM

James C.:

Scrolling is not smooth and opening up books is slow. Right or left arrowing to the next book is slow.

This is something that didn't happen when L6 first came out. I was very happy with the speed but now it's just slow.

I'm running:

Logos Bible Software 6.0a SR-36.0.1.1339

on Windows 8.1 16.0 GB. 64bit

Intel 17-3770 cpu @ 3.40ghz

Please elaborate about storage.  Common to these slow actions is reading from storage device so am curious about storage hardware.

Elias Brasil de Souza:
I have the latest and most powerful Macbook pro and Logos 6 is running terribly slow.

Please elaborate on MacBook Pro hardware specs, especially CPU and storage.  Apple currently offers 6 MacBook Pro models => http://store.apple.com/us/buy-mac/macbook-pro with the entry model having a 5400 RPM drive, which is noticeably slower than PCIe Flash Storage.

For Logos 6, what are the Top 3 slowest items that adversely impact your use of Logos 6? Scrolling, Opening resources, Changing resources?

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 1385
Forum MVP
Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 14 2015 11:49 PM

This morning I received 6.0b update, and the library seems to be much faster Cool

Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 8.1

Posts 24
Elias Brasil de Souza | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 15 2015 11:27 AM

MacBook Pro
Retina, 15-inch
Memory 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3

1Tb SSD

Graphics NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M 2048 MB
Software OS X 10.9.5 (13F34)

Logos Bible Software 6.0b  6.0.2.0042

I have noticed that when a Hebrew Bible is opened, Logos drops performance even more. No matter what kind of Hebrew Bible. SESB, LEXHAM, WTT. I also have a Hebrew Biblie without any vowels which seems to contain no metadata, and when I open it everything slows down.

Posts 7953
LogosEmployee
Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 15 2015 11:43 AM

Elias Brasil de Souza:
I have noticed that when a Hebrew Bible is opened, Logos drops performance even more. No matter what kind of Hebrew Bible. SESB, LEXHAM, WTT. I also have a Hebrew Biblie without any vowels which seems to contain no metadata, and when I open it everything slows down.

Performance improvements for Hebrew on Mac are coming in the next version of Logos (6.1).

Posts 24
Elias Brasil de Souza | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 15 2015 6:04 PM

Thanks. I’m glad to know that. I’ll be looking forward to it, since it has become almost impossible to use the Hebrew Bible in sync with other resources. 

Posts 10

Hello Alan,
I noticed that you have already a MacBook Air.
I want to buy also the same Notebook.
Can you say me please, if Logos 6 runs well on it?
Thank you in advance!

Posts 87
Michael Sullivan | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 16 2015 2:27 PM

Filotheos-Fotios Dr.Maroudas:

Hello Alan,
I noticed that you have already a MacBook Air.
I want to buy also the same Notebook.
Can you say me please, if Logos 6 runs well on it?
Thank you in advance!

I am not Alan, but I have a MacBook Air.  Logos 6 runs fine on it.  There are a couple "mac" bugs that are getting ironed out (like the noted "Hebrew" issue which should get resolved soon) but otherwise it runs fine.  (Not great, not horrible - just fine).

Since Logos 6 is 64bit, I would advise you to get more RAM.  I only have 4gb and Logos 6 runs fine, but I am sure it would run even better with 8gb.

I hope that helps.

In Christian love,

Michael

Posts 168
Mark Nigro | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 16 2015 9:52 PM

In light of the complaints about performance with L6 in general and L6 on Mac in particular, I was and am pleasantly surprised with the level of execution I am getting from the program and that on a MacBook Air, 2013 with 4 GB Ram and 1.3 GHz Intel Core i5. I haven't tried the Hebrew texts yet, but will as I use those regularly. Hoping it won't be crippling slow there. One thing that has digressed significantly in speed from L5 is "Bible Word Study." Takes a bit to complete the report and then scrolling is a bit painful but still functional. Overall, I was hesitant to upgrade but I'm glad I did. Once the bumps get ironed out, it will be a very nice update indeed.

Mark Nigro

Pastor/Teacher/Student/Writer

www.calvarychapelbiblecollege.com

Posts 4595
Forum MVP
Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 17 2015 1:10 AM

Filotheos-Fotios Dr.Maroudas:

Hello Alan,
I noticed that you have already a MacBook Air.
I want to buy also the same Notebook.
Can you say me please, if Logos 6 runs well on it?
Thank you in advance!

As with others my MacBook Air is the repository of the stable version so get used somewhat less than the iMac with the Beta. However, in extremis, it has never let me down or caused concern.

Posts 168
Mark Nigro | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 17 2015 7:52 AM

Update to my last post. Stability of L6 on my MB Air is decent so far:

1. No crashes in the few hours I've been using it.

2. Scrolling is slow when panes are synced. As soon as a pane needs to update, say a commentary needs to jump to a verse when following a scrolling Bible, the Bible pane hangs and I get the spinning beachball. Usable, but far from the performance of L5 on my MB Air.

3. Hebrew resources (EDIT: Bibles and devotionals) are just about unusable at this point, but I know a fix is on the way for that and I hope it comes real soon.

4. Library scrolls very well and has no hesitation. In the "Details" view, scrolling causes the book icons to do a slight jiggle. Aesthetically annoying but functional and not a show-stopper.

5. Searches run quite well in English, Greek and even Hebrew bibles. The problem with Hebrew texts does not seem to affect the searches nor scrolling in the search result pane. Only scrolling in a Hebrew bible pane. Inline searches in a Hebrew bible pane run fine, but scrolling within that pane afterwards is painful.

Otherwise, L6 is running quite well (EDIT: see my next update following this one in the thread) and has a lot to offer in this upgrade.

Mark Nigro

Pastor/Teacher/Student/Writer

www.calvarychapelbiblecollege.com

Posts 4
Justin Guin | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 17 2015 9:29 AM

I have installed 6 on a Macbook Air and am experiencing the same issues that others have experienced. I have plenty of space as I keep my Macbook clean with very little local storage. One issue I noticed was in the note taking. I have a running document for 1 Corinthians and in my section for chapter one I can type an entire sentence before the cursor will will move to reveal the text which I had just typed. It's very frustrating. My notes on chapters 2-3 are not like that and are in the same document in Logos. I'm sure the issue will be resolved. In the last year I have spent more on upgrades (had just saved up enough to upgrade to logos 5 in May) than I paid for the initial software (Logos 3 Scholars' Gold). These issues need to be fixed.

Posts 168
Mark Nigro | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 17 2015 1:55 PM

Update again:

After using L6  (and leaving it open) for a bit, performance seems to have dropped notably.

1. Scrolling in just an English Bible that is NOT linked to any other pane, skips and hangs. Jumping to a new location, say from Genesis 1 to Revelation 1, begins and then freezes upon arrival for 5 seconds (I timed it).

2. Scrolling hangs for 4-5 seconds, and the skips ahead imprecisely when you stop.

3. Closing a tab or adding one, creates a 4-5 second delay, distorts the tabs visually and then lags to repaint them.

4. I am encountering other problems and what appear to be bugs which I will begin to notate and report.

I was truly hopeful that the upgrade would not be this trouble ridden. I am not intending to be sarcastic here but ask sincerely, how does a release that is this important to a company, go from beta to full release with so many performance troubles?

I ask that question with genuine ignorance as to how so many problems can be missed during testing (especially the lag, Hebrew text problems and others that have been listed by others and myself).

You see, unfortunately, this reminds me of the very problem riddled days of L4 on Mac, which was a complete disaster when it first came out for me. Crash upon crash (a little lag is tolerable but not lost work). And I helped beta test and report countless problems before hand.

Logos customers (in particular, Mac users) are either very forgiving or so heavily invested that this type of consumer experience can happen and yet they come back for more. Probably hoping that, this time...it will be different. 

I appreciate Logos but unfortunately each time I get burnt, my trust in the reliability and integrity of a new release from Logos diminishes. And rightfully so. After all, as a Mac user, I have yet to have a release that performed up to its promise right from the start. Yes, L5 got a lot of things right and problems eventually get worked out. But when a product is sold, the product should be ready.

I am thankful that Logos is not my only option for digital Bible study (a competitor's program is my go to workhorse that never fails) otherwise I'd be having a very hard time doing the job for which Bible Software is made and for which, we customers invest our hard earned money.

Mark Nigro

Pastor/Teacher/Student/Writer

www.calvarychapelbiblecollege.com

Posts 576
LogosEmployee
Alan Palmer (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 17 2015 10:12 PM

Mark, I'd love to get to the bottom of the performance issues you are experiencing. I would greatly appreciate your help in doing so.

The best way to start is to begin a new thread focused on one particular issue. Then, please provide a couple key artifacts to give my investigation a head start:

  1. a screencast clearly demonstrating your issue
  2. logs with sampling data (https://www.logos.com/support/logos6/mac/report-problem) taken during the delay you are experiencing
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