Why are not User Manuals Free?

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This post has 228 Replies | 8 Followers

Posts 10178
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 28 2014 4:55 PM

Well, Paul.  Now we're getting down to the spokes of the problem.

That would be, that you can't purchase a manual (or pre-pub).  The offer is just the intro to L6.  I already tried to actually 'buy' a manual. Failed.

If you're wanting to use 'Logos', I suspect Dan's idea is about as far as you're going to get. Just being wagon-realistic.  I'll let the ladies at church know the good news.

EDIT:  Don't know if you saw the blog about the discount on Logos5 manuals just weeks before the Logos6 rollout.  I had to cringe a bit, when I saw that searching.  


Posts 180
Paul C | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 28 2014 5:08 PM

It is possible for most of us to go retro and abandon the new (albeit rickety) wheels. Some would rather have a reliable rickshaw than a crippled stage coach. 

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 28 2014 5:11 PM

Paul C:

It is possible for most of us to go retro and abandon the new (albeit rickety) wheels. Some would rather have a reliable rickshaw than a crippled stage coach.

Provided people aren't trying to strap homeless people to them to carry people around the city. ;-) (Seinfeld episode)

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 1423
Forum MVP
Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 28 2014 10:53 PM

When I was in Telecom software industry, I wrote specifications, code, user manuals and gave user training. For me this thread sounds like a collection of standard complaints.

As a Logos user, I am happy to buy the training manuals. Often I check the Logos help in the net and discussion forums, and they are sort of free. Regarding to the videos, I feel they are boring: I use them as the last resort. The best way to learn is playing with the software: "trial and error". 

The Logos software is very rich in features, it is very useful, it is very complex, it has bugs, and some features are "under construction" - there is no "Five easy steps to ... "

Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 8.1

Posts 26537
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 29 2014 1:53 AM

See the Reading List: Verbum Practicum w/ Verbum Blog Training for an updated list of training/reference materials for Verbum. It does include two items that must be purchased:

Note this was created last April in order to be able to check items off as read or watched.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 26537
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 29 2014 2:42 AM

An example of Logos documentation - online line which means we can "demand" it be up to date:

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 2820
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 29 2014 9:58 AM

Nathan Parker:
I could contact my sales rep and still personally pay for both of you to have it.

Nathan, you are generous and kind, and as usual, one of the most helpful forum members.

Your offer is appreciated, but not necessary. I can afford the Proctor book. I've bought others in the past, and they were helpful.

But that doesn't solve the problem with the parent company.

Again, I appreciate you.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 29 2014 8:29 PM

MJ. Smith:

An example of Logos documentation - online line which means we can "demand" it be up to date:

If this could either be put into a Logos book that's updated with each major release OR if Logos could link to this from their "Welcome section" of the home page and update this with every major release (as well as build it out to be quite exhaustive), then I think we'd have a winner.

The online method might be best, with results integrated into "Everything" search so if someone needed to search the documentation, they could from Logos.

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 29 2014 8:32 PM

Doc B:

Nathan Parker:
I could contact my sales rep and still personally pay for both of you to have it.

Nathan, you are generous and kind, and as usual, one of the most helpful forum members.

Your offer is appreciated, but not necessary. I can afford the Proctor book. I've bought others in the past, and they were helpful.

But that doesn't solve the problem with the parent company.

Again, I appreciate you.

Sounds good. My offer will still be around if you decide to take me up on it, or if you want to purchase it directly, that's great as well. I've read the printed edition, and it's pretty good. It's not an exhaustive manual about every feature in Logos itself, but it is a very good manual to get you up to speed with all the new features. I've already mailed my copy off to another brother in Christ who recently got L6, otherwise I'd drop it in the mail to you.

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 26537
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 29 2014 8:45 PM

Nathan Parker:

The online method might be best, with results integrated into "Everything" search so if someone needed to search the documentation, they could from Logos.

I have suggested to Faithlife that at a minimum they make the search function in help include both online and local data in the results ... this would at least put them closer to the Microsoft approach.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 29 2014 8:50 PM

MJ. Smith:

Nathan Parker:

The online method might be best, with results integrated into "Everything" search so if someone needed to search the documentation, they could from Logos.

I have suggest to Faithlife that at a minimum they make the search function in help include both online and local data in the results ... this would at least put them closer to the Microsoft approach.

True. Integrating the other Logos/Faithlife family of sites into the Everything search would be a handy plus as well.

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 5025
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 30 2014 1:23 AM

I agree this would be a positive step in the right direction.  The software should bring help to the user, the user shouldn't have to go out looking for it on various online sites.

MJ. Smith:

Nathan Parker:

The online method might be best, with results integrated into "Everything" search so if someone needed to search the documentation, they could from Logos.

I have suggest to Faithlife that at a minimum they make the search function in help include both online and local data in the results ... this would at least put them closer to the Microsoft approach.

Posts 1751
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 30 2014 7:33 PM

Found the solution (just kidding!):

http://www.macworld.com/article/2863942/think-retro-when-apples-user-guides-explained-it-all.html#tk.rss_all 

Nathan Parker

Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com

Posts 623
JAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 10 2015 1:01 AM

I think "Not done until Documented" is compatible with  "Release early, release often".

Disciple of Christ (doc):
The software should bring help to the user, the user shouldn't have to go out looking for it on various online sites.

I agree with the call for full free documentation of the features/components of Faithlife products. Additional training on the proper or effective use of a documented feature/component is, I think, an extra which is rightly offered at additional cost and/or effort.

Nathan Parker:

Nice find Nathan, a read of that article furthers the discussion of what properly belongs in a product manual.

Though the original post to this thread set a tone I didn't like, the question posed by the Bryan S. when he changed the subject heading is a good one. It is recently further discussed in another thread begining at the post linked to below.

https://community.logos.com/forums/p/100199/695385.aspx#695385

"The Christian mind is the prerequisite of Christian thinking. And Christian thinking is the prerequisite of Christian action." - Harry Blamires, 1963

Posts 898
Justin Gatlin | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 10 2015 9:22 AM

In the absence of a good manual (although I think the call for screencasters is a good idea), how do the different third party tools stack up? I am thinking specifically of the CampLogos videos versus LearnLogos.com

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 10 2015 12:03 PM

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 563
Scott E. Mahle | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 10 2015 1:05 PM

Hello, Justin!

I can’t comment on the videos because I’ve never seen them, but I do have the training manuals from MP Seminars and I can say they are very well done, thorough, and now come with the What’s New in 6 manual. The price isn’t bad for what you get! Link to training bundle.

Logos Series X Pastor’s Library | Logos 3 Leader’s Library | Logos 4 Portfolio | Logos 5 Platinum | Logos 6 Feature Crossgrade | Logos 7 Essential Upgrade - Large | Logos 8 Methodist & Wesleyan Platinum and Academic Professional

Posts 382
Sacrifice | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 10 2015 2:49 PM

I recieved an extensive manual with my autumobile and I think that one should be issued with Logos - especially since I have more invested in Logos than I do my  auto. 

Yours In Christ

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 11 2015 11:44 AM

Wonderous Grace:

I recieved an extensive manual with my autumobile and I think that one should be issued with Logos - especially since I have more invested in Logos than I do my  auto. 

YesYesYes

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 943
Everett Headley | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 11 2015 12:06 PM

I figured I should weigh in as well:

With thousands of dollars invested in my library, there should be from Logos a FREE manual and training.  Paying $225 for MP to tell me how to use the program is just ridiculous IMO.  For Logos to say "here's our product, now pay to learn how to use" seems self-defeating.  

But there are other users who have stepped up to show us how to use it and for free or nearly free.  

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