MacArthur Sermon Archive - Thousands of Typos - Who is Responsible?

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This post has 76 Replies | 6 Followers

Posts 97
Rick Carmickle | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Dec 30 2014 10:25 PM

With 3-5 typos in each sermon, based on my initial survey, there may be 10-20,000 typos in the archive. I am not talking about bad spoken English, etc. These are typos likewordsnotspacedproperly.  

Still, it is a very useful resource. 

I know the MacArthur sermons at GTY we're not closely reviewed or edited, but I expected that this resource would be cleaned up.

So whose typos are these? And if we report typos to Logos, will they say that they can't change the originals? Will the typos be corrected if reported? 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 30 2014 10:29 PM

YesBig Smile

I don't know but I'd suspect that they would at least run all changes by GTY/

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 5547
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 31 2014 6:18 AM

Typos are easy to make and very common. I frequently come across typos in resources of all kinds. If I were you, I would simply report what I find and not worry too much about it. Realistically, nothing will be changed any time soon, and nothing will be changed if no typos are reported.

Rick Carmickle:
I know the MacArthur sermons at GTY we're not closely reviewed or edited, but I expected that this resource would be cleaned up.

MJ. Smith:
I don't know but I'd suspect that they would at least run all changes by GTY/

Posts 391
Geo Philips | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 31 2014 8:47 AM

There is a weird one in the very first sermon where its a fillable text box instead of a word. I have to say this should have been easily caught in some kind of QA because 1) it is the very first sermon and 2) Its pretty evident even at a glance.

Slightly disappointing

Posts 97
Rick Carmickle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 31 2014 9:26 AM

A user in a separate thread had noted the spelling of the church father "Chrissistum" at GTY. This alternate spelling is now in Logos. The Logos edition is an exact replica of the GTY archive without any additional clean up work. When it is a free transcript on the GTY website, I understand typos and misspellings. And I don't even care about goofs on Facebook posts and threads where people are typing on their phones. 

So Logos just took what was given to them and tagged the verses. I am certain that means they will not correct the typos since Logos is just replicating the GTY archive. The corrections need to come from GTY. Reporting typos to Logos will not make a difference. 

Still, I look forward to reading the sermons.

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Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 31 2014 9:55 AM

St. John Chrysostom I presume...

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Jacob Hantla | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 31 2014 12:24 PM

There are other problems like this screenshot from logosres:jhnmcrthrsrrchv;art=sermon.2012.44 :


The formatting for the text "Safe in the Arms of God" and "Related Resource" are clearly not done well.

Also, I would expect that resources like Safe in the Arms of God would be linked (logosres:safearmsgod;art=title  /  https://www.logos.com/product/3052/safe-in-the-arms-of-god)

All of these sermons are freely available online but we paid the $200 premium (now listed at $400) for the hand-editing that goes into Logos works and the tagging for things like this. I hope that this resources gets fixed and updated quickly. 

Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org

Posts 932
Justin Gatlin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 31 2014 2:07 PM

I would like to see some comment from Logos about if they intend to fix it or not. If things remain in this shape, I need to know in the next 30 days to get a refund. The value is simply not here for me if the content is so sloppy.

Posts 688
Ted Weis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 31 2014 2:30 PM

Aren't Logos resources run through a spell checker before they're released?

A Logos release is supposed to be superior to Vyrso releases, which I'm told is just a digitized file provided by the publisher.

Sounds initially like this sermon collection is a Vyrso grade release at a Logos grade price.

Posts 932
Justin Gatlin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 31 2014 2:42 PM

Ted Weis:

Aren't Logos resources run through a spell checker before they're released?

A Logos release is supposed to be superior to Vyrso releases, which I'm told is just a digitized file provided by the publisher.

Sounds initially like this sermon collection is a Vyrso grade release at a Logos grade price.

Apparently not a very smart one. The first three paragraphs of the first sermon, with errors underlined, with the correction in brackets:


"If you have your Bibles with you turn to the book of Habakkuk, the Old Testament. We’re coming to the end of our little time with Habakkuk and I kind of feel badly about it because I’ve sort of gotten to love him. I’ve spent an awful lot of hours with him every week and I just kind of have a kindred spirit with Habakkuk in many, many ways, and I’m sure you do to[too].
Tonight’s message is concerning Chapter 3 of Habakkuk and in this chapter we will find ourselves in much of the time summarizing things that we have already noted about him and perhaps pulling them together in a little different perspective. Habakkuk 3:1–19, which encompasses the entire chapter, is what we want to talk about tonight. And the title of the message is[as] noted in the bulletin is ["]Praise the Lord Anyhow["] and that title probably gives away a little of the attitude of Habakkuk by the time he arrives in Chapter 3.
If you’ll go back in your mind you’ll remember that his basic dilemma was why God was allowing Israel to go down the drain as fast as she was, and then why in the world God ever allowed the Chaldeans to be able to come in and destroy Israel. He couldn’t figure out why God would let Israel get this far away from Him and then he couldn’t figure out why God would use such an ungodly[,] unholy crew as the Chaldeans to come in to bring judgment upon Israel, and he was puzzled and perplexed by what he did not understand. And then we found last week that he really found out a good way to end his dilemma."


John F. MacArthur Jr., John MacArthur Sermon Archive (Panorama City, CA: Grace to You, 2014).

Posts 1939
Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 31 2014 4:42 PM

This is certainly mystifying. Did Logos not think anyone would care?

I am certain that GTY disclosed the existence of typos, since they posted this on their website:

http://www.gty.org/resources/questions/QA521 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 31 2014 5:58 PM

Ted Weis:

Aren't Logos resources run through a spell checker before they're released?

A Logos release is supposed to be superior to Vyrso releases, which I'm told is just a digitized file provided by the publisher.

Sounds initially like this sermon collection is a Vyrso grade release at a Logos grade price.

As I understand the issue, Logos does not change the original unless the publisher has changed or approved the change in the original. It may be included in some of the contracts but it is also necessary for scholarly work ... which is why "<sic>" was invented Wink Only if it was a Lexham Press original should one expect Faithlife to provide editorial services. The question is more why MacArthur isn't sufficiently embarrassed to do basic editing for his website. Things like incompatible characters and link, however, Faithlife should have taken care of.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1281
toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 31 2014 8:59 PM

MJ. Smith:
As I understand the issue, Logos does not change the original unless the publisher has changed or approved the change in the original. It may be included in some of the contracts but it is also necessary for scholarly work ... which is why "<sic>" was invented

While I agree with this philosophy for scholarly texts, for resources, such as this, such argument is a cop-out. Ultimately, Faithlife is responsible for all products they sell. If Apple sells premium laptops with a flaky battery made by a different supplier, it is responsible and will issue a recall. In the future it would bode well for Apple to chose a different supplier or insist on better quality controls from the current one.

As of right now, this resource resembles a PB rather than an excellent Logos resource, especially undeserving the premium price.

I plan to return this product back and leave a review warning potential buyers about the issues.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 31 2014 9:09 PM

toughski - if I were running Logos (which you should be glad I'm not) I would have rejected the file from GTY and not offered the product unless they valued their product sufficiently to make it vaguely acceptable.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 19273
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 31 2014 9:16 PM

toughski:
Ultimately, Faithlife is responsible for all products they sell.

Agreed 100%. But only insofar as they could have (and should have; I agree with MJ too) rejected these resources as not being up to the quality they would be willing to stand by.

However I don't think they should waste their time fixing other people's typos if the other publisher is not willing to fix them.

Faithlife does report typos back to the original publisher if users report typos in resources that are not Faithlife's fault. They will wait for an updated file from the publisher and push the typo fixes out to us once they get it (which could be years), but due to license agreements they are usually not at liberty to fix typos on their own, except with out of print works.

IMO, MacArthur Sermon Archive should have been a Vyrso edition not Logos, if it came from a website-quality original text. If it had been a print publication (which would no doubt have gone through more scrutiny by the publisher, one would hope) then that's another story.

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toughski | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 31 2014 9:25 PM

MJ. Smith:

toughski - if I were running Logos (which you should be glad I'm not) I would have rejected the file from GTY and not offered the product unless they valued their product sufficiently to make it vaguely acceptable.

Sometimes I question the motives. I think the answer to a lot of problems we complain on these forums is free market. Logos and Faithlife have been scooping up free and public domain resources, charging disproportionate prices and not worrying much about typos or quality. This is sad.

Posts 2279
Andy | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 1 2015 12:25 AM

I broadly agree with M.J. and Rosie inasmuch as I would ordinarily attribute typos and errors of this nature to the publisher rather than Logos. Ordinarily, I would expect such errors to be referred back to the publisher for correction.

However, in my opinion, this resource is different from, say, a commentary or monograph. This product is advertised as the sermons of John MacArthur with no reference to the already transcribed sermons on GTY. As such, the reference point is MacArthur's sermons as delivered rather than the suboptimal transcriptions on the website (sourced, admittedly, by volunteers). Unless MacArthur speakswithtypographicalerrorsandwithoutpunctuationorpause, I would expect these typographical errors to be owned and addressed by Logos, with reference to the sermon audio where necessary.

I agree with the comments above, this is a premium product justified, in part at least, by the 'value added' by Logos over and above the functionality available via the GTY website.

I expect that this is a slip in QA rather than an intentional strategy to publish the resource with errors and all. I am confident, as has happened in the past, that Logos will address this now that it has been highlighted.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 1 2015 1:42 AM

Andy, who is listed as publisher in the metadata? (I don't have the resource). Thanks.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Andy | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 1 2015 1:47 AM

MJ. Smith:

Andy, who is listed as publisher in the metadata? (I don't have the resource). Thanks.

Hi M.J.,

It is listed as follows,

MacArthur, John F., Jr. John MacArthur Sermon Archive. Panorama City, CA: Grace to You, 2014. Print.

Posts 19273
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 1 2015 1:51 AM

Andy Evans:
MacArthur, John F., Jr. John MacArthur Sermon Archive. Panorama City, CA: Grace to You, 2014. Print.

If the "Print" at the end of that citation info indicates that this resource is published in print form by GTY, then shame on them for putting it out in such shoddy quality. But also shame on Logos for turning it around and making it into a premium Logos edition without adequate proofreading. That would be understandable if it were a Vyrso resource, as they pretty much have zero human oversight. But we've grown to expect that Logos editions will be of higher quality. There are many Vyrso edition resources that are much higher quality than this, because they come directly from publishers who care about the quality of their text. There might be formatting glitches and such in those, but not hundreds of egregious typos.

I'm certain this is just a case of QA slippage, and that Faithlife will address it once they are aware of the issue. They are pretty good about that.

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