Why upgrade to Logos 6

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/681549#Comment_681549

Is Logos 6 a better platform than my current Logos 5?

From my perspective the answer is yes, Logos 6 is a better platform than 5

Some of the features which I find particularly useful:

The Ancient Literature Guide section - providing easy access to what the early Fathers and others said about passages I am looking at
Factbook - and the way it provides a good entry point to researching many things of interest
The inline search capability (which does need some work) is really powerful and helpful
Some of the interactive resources (Psalms, Bible Outline, Biblical Event Navigator, Morphology Charts, Narrative Character maps) are particularly helpful to me - I know others find some of the other ones useful
More powerful search capabilities and associated tagging is, for me, the big one! The ability to search for something WITHIN something else is really powerful
The "Send to Kindle" feature is very helpful
Visual Copy provides some really good visuals

There are more - but these are some of the features I find particularly helpful

Mike Binks

Hi John,

New years greeting to you.

I, too, am a OS X and iOS user and must agree with Graham's list of advantages.

Although the 'free engine' is due out next month there are real feature enhancements and additions in Logos 6 which I enjoy working with. As usual the program has its rough edges but it is developing, getting better and better, and moving with the times.

That last part 'moving with the times' is significant. You may be happy with what you have just now but as a late comer you will not be learning with the pack but having to catch up at a time when discussion has moved on and others are focussing on new things.

With Apple gear it is always best to keep up with the latest OS fairly promptly and so it is with Logos. It is a 'professional' tool and takes some investment in learning, but it is a tool that will aid ministry, understanding and study. The investment, in my opinion is worth it.

NB.Mick

Is Logos 6 a better platform than my current Logos 5?

I think so. I'm still using a 32bit OS, but other users (especially from the dark Mac side) seem to be happy about the 64bit platform.

advantages or improvements over Logos 5

some from the top of my head:

reading plans will follow the chapter structure of the book and not break at mid-sentence where the printer ran out of paper space - and can be created in a fully "custom" way [not yet availble for the mobile platforms]
the interactive resources - especially Canon Comparison, Psalms and Proverbs explorer
inline search - it filters the resource for search hits on a scalable level (sentence/verse, paragraph, pericope)
the new home page is much faster
community tags allow finding of people/concepts in the vast sea of monographs in our libraries

abondservant

let me add the caveat to the mac recomendation - seems like there are a number of folks that have been messed up by having yosemite and needing to download a lot of data all at once. There is a meta-thread. Not sure if that has been resolved.

I highly recommend 6. Made some speed improvements on my PC - especially where copious amounts of ram are needed, it makes some information a lot easier to get to. not to mention the features.

Some have said that it uses a lot more ram on low end pc's. Personally I wish it used a little more

John McKenna

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/681533#Comment_681533

Mike:

Apparently you missed it where I stated I have been a long time user of Logos products, from Libronix and the limited PC days to Logos 5. Additionally I use logos almost every day, it to keep notes, cross reference, and while I have never purchased a "complete" version beyond the basic upgrades I have an extensive library of books that I have selected as I needed them.

I do see the cost advantages of purchasing the various version levels, but over the years I often find most of the included texts are not something I would regularly use. So I spend more by purchasing the titles I want.

What I want to know is does Logos 6 work "better" than 5? Are the work flows more logical and smoother, do the note documents transfer over without a hitch (I use them extensively while studying) and there other features you find makes it a worth upgrading?

What are the "rough edges" you wrote about?

Basically for those who have upgraded what are the best features you have found so far? Remember added content really isn't the issue functions and usability are to me.

Thank you all again!

Drew McKenna

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/681583#Comment_681583

While it depends on how you use notes, for myself the ability to attach notes to multiple verses and to pretty much everything - not just the resources -- is sufficient to justify moving to L6. Admittedly, Faithlife is still working out the kinks on how to display the notes we can now create and haven't yet released a new search interface but they have made huge strides and said the other pieces are coming.

Mike Binks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/681583#Comment_681583

Hi Drew

Apparently you missed it where I stated I have been a long time user of Logos products, from Libronix and the limited PC days to Logos 5. Additionally I use logos almost every day, it to keep notes, cross reference, and while I have never purchased a "complete" version beyond the basic upgrades I have an extensive library of books that I have selected as I needed them.

I didn't miss this point – I tried to address it by pointing out the advantages of being (version wise) at the forefront and not falling behind. The main point being that it is easier to learn new features along with the pack rather than trying to catch up when the pack has moved on to new and novel things.

I do see the cost advantages of purchasing the various version levels, but over the years I often find most of the included texts are not something I would regularly use. So I spend more by purchasing the titles I want.

The cost of moving to Logos 6 is fast becoming irrelevant. The free engine will be available in February. It is then the additional features that come with the various base packages that you will need to evaluate rather than the underlying system. Logos 6 comes now with various flavours that are added with the various base packages. I guess you could say that the free engine is now 'Logos light'.

What I want to know is does Logos 6 work "better" than 5? Are the work flows more logical and smoother, do the note documents transfer over without a hitch (I use them extensively while studying) and there other features you find makes it a worth upgrading?

In my opinion Logos 6 (I have all the features) does work better, has really interesting and useful additions, and is a bit slicker than Logos 5. I imagine that the crossbreeds have been well worth the money and that moving to the free engine will be a 'no brainer' for the reasons that I have stated above.

What are the "rough edges" you wrote about?

I consider all 'non mac like' features to be 'rough edges' the one that irks me most often is the lack of 'three finger touch' definitions on words. I find the notes system arcane and underly featured and rarely use it. I don't compile personal books yet but understand that this feature has had some work done on it during the service releases as has the download problem that came out with the first iterations.

Basically for those who have upgraded what are the best features you have found so far? Remember added content really isn't the issue functions and usability are to me.

Unfortunately you can no longer separate content and features when evaluating the software - they are becoming entwined - engine, data sets, interactive features, are inseparable to the user that has not studied where and when in the content acquiring process these pieces become available. (Actually that has been the way for some time - obtain the free engine and you did not get Reverse Interliniers until you purchased the appropriate resources.)

So - yes upgrade to the free engine when released - there is nothing to loose and no cost.

In my opinion you are likely to be missing some really useful features (including 64bit operation) by not purchasing one of the cross grades.

Rosie Perera

Some people have found Logos 6 slower than Logos 5, but that might be the experience of Windows users only, I'm not sure. I'm not a Mac user so I can't evaluate it from that perspective. But yes, all the new features are worth it. The general work flow of L6 is the same as L5 as the features that aren't brand new in L6 haven't really changed except for some bug fixes. One workflow thing which has change for me is that I find I'm using the new inline search a lot instead of Ctrl+F to find text within a resource. And yes, the notes transfer over from L5 without a hitch.

GregW

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/681737#Comment_681737

I never used to believe this when I read it here on the forums, but there is a benefit in having a significant library. I have books I'll never use, but which do sometimes turn up useful stuff in searches. I also have commentary series I would never have bought, but which have turned out to be extremely useful. I would suggest it is worth looking at the prices of Base Packages and comparing them with the crossgrades, as you will likely get a lot of useful stuff at very low incremental prices. Also, if you've never bought a Base Package, you won't have the Reverse Interlinears or some of the datasets which do open up a whole lot of functionality to you. I started out buying individual books in Libronix, but upgraded to a Base Package in L4, and that turbo-charged my study.

I have found the Ancient Literature tool, the Cultural Concepts, Psalms Explorer, and the other features others have mentioned above to be very useful, and L6 certainly fits into my sermon-preparation workflow better than previous versions. Some useful features have also been added to Reading Plans to make them more flexible (but see below). I am not a big Notes user but have found the multiple attachment points in Notes to be a great enhancement, and am just beginning to use some of the new search features. I'm also just beginning to use some of the labelling features and finding that very powerful as well. I have, for example, gone through labelling all the instances of heaven opening as I find them: Where I used to have a whole Notes document to collate these, the labelling collates them all and allow me to classify them. I'm on OS X and think the performance has improved in L6, although that is purely perception - I prefer to spend my time using Logos rather than timing it. I don't personally care whether it's "Mac-like" so can't really comment on that. I never had any of the download/wifi problems others have experienced with Yosemite.

On the downside, while some great new features have been introduced to Reading Plans these don't sync to the IOS (or Android) platform at present. So, for example, any L5 generated plan will still sync to your iPad/iPhone, but if you create a custom plan or a chapter-based plan that won't sync. I'd be very surprised if that is not sorted out soon, but there's been no commitment to it yet and it is not in the current IOS beta version. To clarify this, I had an OT Reading Plan that was generated under L5, which initially synced to L6. When I spotted the new Reading Plan features I immediately converted it to a chapter-based plan, at which point it stopped syncing. The same happened with a couple of other Reading Plans that I customised with the new features.

Overall, though, I think L6 has made me more effective and has streamlined my workflow, and I am glad I got in early, even if there were a couple of teething problems in the early stages. Some of these features will also take a while to mature, but I find them all usable and they have enhanced my study. Some of them will take time to become more useful as well: label searches, for example, will only become more useful as you use labelling in your library.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/681746#Comment_681746

Given experience with Logos daily and from many versions going back, it has to depend on what you're using Logos for.

1. As Rosie mentions, Logos6 is similar to Logos4 for me; molassas. I use very few of the gee-whiz features and it's still molassas (W7/64, good PC, etc).

2. I value a lot of 'surrounding info' when I'm studying. And therefore the new Passage Guide features are quite good now, and I'm presuming they'll expand them further. That's the only thing I noticed of any value (for me).

3. All the 'stuff' they included in the feature crossgrade, I gave it a 'Hidden' tag; I suppose if I did some type of teaching, it'd be good. But otherwise it's amateur-ish (for regular study).

Again, it really depends on what you're doing with Logos daily. Absent the PG, I'd of probably let them go to 6.1 to get a handle on the molassas issues. It's quite tiresome.

EDIT: I'd also point out, if you do a lot of right-clicking, the L6 is also a pain, being clogged up badly. They successfully broke Bob's menuing rule this round. For me, I can't quickly scan 'hits' on resources (left-bottom), the right-side word list often has to be moused over to see which line is which, etc. I don't know what they were thinking.

EDIT2: (sorry) Just a minute ago, I was using the right-click. On one resource the right-side list is lemma>morph; on the next resource, it was morph> lemma. I just don't understand their design guy. He must really work slooooooow. Even when there's plenty of space, you still have to scroll to get the lexicon list.

Veli Voipio

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/681792#Comment_681792

For me the propositional outlines for the NT Greek was most useful.

There are improvements here and there, in the exegetical guide many useful for me.

In my fast computer only the Library feature got slower, someone used the word clunky, I am not sure what it means.

The price for the upgrade was about same as the Pillar NT commentary in my case.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/681792#Comment_681792

As Rosie mentions, Logos6 is similar to Logos4 for me; molassas. I use very few of the gee-whiz features and it's still molassas … Absent the PG, I'd of probably let them go to 6.1 to get a handle on the molassas issues. It's quite tiresome.

I'm not aware of any systemic performance regressions in Logos 6 compared to Logos 5. Are you running the 64-bit or 32-bit version? Would you be able to create a screencast of the molasses? That may give us enough information to reproduce the problem here, allowing us to fix it.

Just a minute ago, I was using the right-click. On one resource the right-side list is lemma>morph; on the next resource, it was morph> lemma.

I haven't seen this reported before; can you give a screenshot or identify the resources you were using?

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/681803#Comment_681803

Bradley, I'm running the 64. But I doubt a screenplay would show it; primarily for me it's in the resource scrolling (Bibles, CitedBy's, etc), and then of course the right-click is slow (new to L6). The scrolling issue had been worked pretty fast in L5; the new paging in memory (64) I'd of thought would be faster than the diskdrive. But not; the joys of L5 are gone.

The first example below is right-clicking over BHS SESB 2.0; the second one is right-clicking over Gottingen (both Gen 6.2). The hebrew one groups (arrow symbol) under the lemma; the Gottingen one groups (arrow symbol) under the morph. Why, I've no idea. And to illustrate for John, note in the first one, when lemma is selected, you can't see any lexicons.

John McKenna

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/681807#Comment_681807

Thank you all for the input on the newest version, 6, of Logos.

I am a power user of Logos and typically have at least six books and three note documents open in two tabbed views. I also right click a lot, highlight, note, copy and more when I am in serious study (about 20 hours a week).

The issue of downloading the "free" engine when it is available really isn't a player for me. I believe the developers deserve every penny they receive. From a personal point I also believe using only the "free" version really isn't right, so I will purchase version 6 most likely.

I did just read in the Logos blog one compelling feature of version 6 that will probably push me over the edge shortly. Rick Brannan's article on 'Evaluating Textual Variation with Logos 6' explains the importance and feature quite well.

Please continue providing reasons and real life reviews of the "why upgrade to Logos 6" for the readers of the forum. It is a valuable discussion for the "skeptics" like me out there.

Thank you!

Drew McKenna

For those interested; current platforms, 2012 Mac Mini, 2014 11" MBA, OSX 10.10; iPhone and iPad.

As a review I find the iOS app not very useful. Very little cross over from the OSX program. My wish would be a more seamless operation between the two operating systems.

Bob Soule

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/681803#Comment_681803

I'm not aware of any systemic performance regressions in Logos 6 compared to Logos 5.

Bradley, my 64-Bit i7 Windows 7 Logos 6 - SR5 is still slow in several basic areas as I have mention on other threads. Like scrolling resources, library filtering, startup time. etc.

Also on the following thread others are having performance issues as well.

https://community.logos.com/forums/t/97936.aspx?PageIndex=1

These issues seem to have begun when an upgrade to CEF which was included with a Logos 6 upgrade,I think when 6.0a game out.

At any rate are you not seeing these performance issues reported on the forums?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/681820#Comment_681820

As a review I find the iOS app not very useful. Very little cross over from the OSX program. My wish would be a more seamless operation between the two operating systems.

John - I suggest you summarise the issues you are seeing in the iOS forum - https://community.logos.com/forums/74.aspx - where those responsible for that product will be able to engage with your concerns.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/681822#Comment_681822

I'm not aware of any systemic performance regressions in Logos 6 compared to Logos 5.

Bradley, my 64-Bit i7 Windows 7 Logos 6 - SR5 is still slow in several basic areas as I have mention on other threads. Like scrolling resources, library filtering, startup time. etc.

I have to second this. I find these same things to be sluggish, especially library view (filtering, scrolling, tagging, renaming) both on my 2012 MacBook Air and on my PC (64-bit; Ivy Bridge i7; 32GB RAM; nVidia GeForce GTX 660; recent Intel SSDs [either 530 or 540...I forget])

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/681870#Comment_681870

I have to second this. I find these same things to be sluggish, especially library view (filtering, scrolling, tagging, renaming) both on my 2012 MacBook Air and on my PC (64-bit; Ivy Bridge i7; 32GB RAM; nVidia GeForce GTX 660; recent Intel SSDs [either 530 or 540...I forget])

In Logos 4 & 5 I remember different people with similar spec systems got very difference performance. I wonder if we are seeing something similar here - for me, performance on Logos 6 in these areas seems to be fine with a lower-spec machine than the reference here.

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/681820#Comment_681820

Please continue providing reasons and real life reviews of the "why upgrade to Logos 6" for the readers of the forum. It is a valuable discussion for the "skeptics" like me out there.

The home page loads an awful lot faster in 6 and its contents are much more readable. That's a very real plus, even though its value varies by user.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/681872#Comment_681872

I have to second this. I find these same things to be sluggish, especially library view (filtering, scrolling, tagging, renaming) both on my 2012 MacBook Air and on my PC (64-bit; Ivy Bridge i7; 32GB RAM; nVidia GeForce GTX 660; recent Intel SSDs [either 530 or 540...I forget])

In Logos 4 & 5 I remember different people with similar spec systems got very difference performance. I wonder if we are seeing something similar here - for me, performance on Logos 6 in these areas seems to be fine with a lower-spec machine than the reference here.

True. With the same PC, I was unhappy with Logos 4 performance, but was largely satisfied with Logos 5. Logos 6 slowed back down again, though I'm hoping it will get better as they streamline the new code base since there was a major rewrite.

Now with that said, the performance issues are far more acute on my Mac than on my PC...but the PC still "stutters" more than it should.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/681892#Comment_681892

Graham,

If you filter your library (for example by mytag:) do you have any stuttering? That's probably the most noticeable issue on my PC. There is noticeable lag and stuttering when filtering the library.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/681895#Comment_681895

Graham,

If you filter your library (for example by mytag:) do you have any stuttering? That's probably the most noticeable issue on my PC. There is noticeable lag and stuttering when filtering the library.

Scrolling my wife's small library (< 200 resources) induces stutter and lag with only 6 columns to be displayed (5 visible).

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/681911#Comment_681911

Graham,

If you filter your library (for example by mytag:) do you have any stuttering? That's probably the most noticeable issue on my PC. There is noticeable lag and stuttering when filtering the library.

Scrolling my wife's small library (< 200 resources) induces stutter and lag with only 6 columns to be displayed (5 visible).

Thanks for the confirmation Dave. With that small of a library, that confirms that it's not an issue limited to large libraries, which had been suggested on other threads.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/681820#Comment_681820

I did just read in the Logos blog one compelling feature of version 6 that will probably push me over the edge shortly. Rick Brannan's article on 'Evaluating Textual Variation with Logos 6' explains the importance and feature quite well.

The free Logos 6 engine gives you access to the Textual Variants section in Passage Guide as well as Exegetical Guide, and results depend on resources in your library. The Online Manuscripts is the only part that requires an upgrade to Logos 6 (Feature Crossgrade or Gold).

There is also an Ancient Literature section (Core/Feature Crossgrade or Silver) which gives quotations, allusions & background to passages in the Apostolic Fathers, Talmud, Mishna, Philo, Josephus, etc.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/681895#Comment_681895

Hi Ron

If you filter your library (for example by mytag:) do you have any stuttering? That's probably the most noticeable issue on my PC. There is noticeable lag and stuttering when filtering the library.

Yes - that does generate lag / stutter.

Thanks for that

Graham

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/681911#Comment_681911

Scrolling my wife's small library (< 200 resources) induces stutter and lag with only 6 columns to be displayed (5 visible).

Are you running the 64-bit version?

AFAIK, little code has changed in the library between Logos 5 and 6, so there shouldn't be any performance difference. However, it could be possible that something is different in the underlying .NET Framework; we may need to investigate that further.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/681947#Comment_681947

Are you running the 64-bit version?

I am running the 64-bit version

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/681807#Comment_681807

the Gottingen one groups (arrow symbol) under the morph

This resource is encoded incorrectly; I've reported the bug.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/682497#Comment_682497

I can confirm my moderately sized library has no stutters in filtering on library view with a number of fields open - 6.0.20039

Colin Ware

Is someone running L6 on Vista?

It appears you need Windows 7 SP1 64 bit as a minimum to run L6. Can this be clarified?There is nothing that I can find on the L6 promotional pages about specification. I had to look in the wiki but if there is another spot I am happy to be corrected. I run L4 on Vista. The computer is fine for my needs and while I would like some or maybe all of the new L6 features I am not sure I can justify replacing the computer and the the OS.

Colin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/683377#Comment_683377

It appears you need Windows 7 SP1 64 bit as a minimum to run L6. Can this be clarified?There is nothing that I can find on the L6 promotional pages about specification.

Please have a look at https://www.logos.com/install - you will see the requirements for a minimum of Windows 7 SP1 (or higher) on the right-hand side of the screen