[resolved] Mac disability feature disabled: is that legal?

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Mike McKnelly | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Jan 6 2015 8:51 PM

 I can understand how logos could disable the text to speech feature in their own program. But what I can't understand is how they can disable the built-in Mac  Text to  speech. That's a accessibility feature for visually impaired persons.  I think logos should seriously consider the repercussions that could come from this.

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 6 2015 9:36 PM

I believe threatened litigation is the reason Kindle allowed it back. I seriously doubt Faithlife will do anything unless they face a legal challenge. Because publishers like Zondervan may complain that they are breaking their contracts that forbid it.

-Dan

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I am late in coming to this discussion--I have not had a Mac to test for accessibility until this week. Has Logos communicated with Zondervan and actually told them that they have people who are Logos customers *because* we need resources in digital format and that this is the only way we would actually be able to read anything from Zondervan, ever, and that actually means *more* sales for Zondervan?

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 5 2015 12:33 AM

any comment on this?

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Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 5 2015 2:24 AM

Dan Francis:

Because publishers like Zondervan may complain that they [Logos] are breaking their contracts that forbid it.

But we are talking about the difference between a professionally recorded audio (Zondervan) versus the built-in robot text-to-speech (OS X) correct? So it's not like someone is stealing Zondervan's resource, the person is using (putting up with) a basic text-to-speech functionality.

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Tim Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 5 2015 5:00 AM

Mike McKnelly:

 I can understand how logos could disable the text to speech feature in their own program. But what I can't understand is how they can disable the built-in Mac  Text to  speech. That's a accessibility feature for visually impaired persons.  I think logos should seriously consider the repercussions that could come from this.

The built-in Mac text-to-speech feature has been working great for me and continues to do so in the latest Logos 6. Guys, you just gotta use the shortcut Cmd + R (just remember R for Read) and Logos will use the built-in Mac text-to-speech engine to read whatever resource you have open. You'll notice that a play/pause button will also appear in the top right corner of the Logos window (see attached image) where you can adjust the speed too. I hope this helps! Blessings.

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GregW | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 5 2015 5:42 AM

Tim Taylor:
The built-in Mac text-to-speech feature has been working great for me and continues to do so in the latest Logos 6.

It works fine for me as well, but not in all resources. I initially tried using it with the NIV, but it doesn't work with that (at least not on my laptop). It works fine with the ESV, so it's not a "Bibles" problem. It also works with Paul and the Faithfulness of God (at least on the page I'm on - didn't try it with the whole book!). I suspect therefore that there is a publisher restriction in some cases. I tried it with "When Leadership and Discipleship collide" which is a Zondervan title, and it doesn't work wit that, so I suspect it's related to publisher restrictions. Perhaps someone from Faithlife can comment. 


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JAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 5 2015 6:37 AM

Mike McKnelly:

 I can understand how logos could disable the text to speech feature in their own program. But what I can't understand is how they can disable the built-in Mac  Text to  speech. That's a accessibility feature for visually impaired persons.  I think logos should seriously consider the repercussions that could come from this.

For clarity - Mike, is it only with resources published by Zondervan that you can't use text-to-speech?

I routinely use TTS with Logos on a Mac and this definitely effects my purchasing decisions. Thus far all titles from Zondervan have had this feature disabled. I haven't checked titles from Nelson released since HarperCollins Christian Publishing acquired it.

I believe that disallowing text-to-speech for individual resources is legal - but I'm not a lawyer.

I hope Faithlife is taking this  seriously and that there is, or will be, an accessibility lead in the company who can help to ensure best practices in this area.

FWIW - Here are links to some sites that address the broader topic of developing content that is accessible:

http://www.accessiblebooksconsortium.org/inclusive_publishing/en/accessible_best_practice_guidelines_for_publishers.html

http://ncam.wgbh.org/invent_build/web_multimedia/accessible-digital-media-guide

http://www.slideshare.net/mobile/daisyconsortium/inclusive-publishing

http://www.w3.org/blog/dpub/2013/11/26/tpac-update-on-accessibility-in-digital-publishing/

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Posts 293
Mike McKnelly | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 5 2015 7:49 AM

Its only happening in  the Zondervan resources

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JAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 5 2015 8:34 AM

I purchased The Gagging of God from Zondervan on Google Play and text-to-speech is enabled in the Play Books app - not so for many other HarperCollins properties I've checked. I mention this as it seems to provide hope that Faithlife may be able to renegotiate concerning Zondervan titles.

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Thomas Ball | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 5 2015 10:28 AM

We have disabled Read Aloud for Zondervan resources as a result of licensing agreements with Zondervan. Though I'm not a representative of Zondervan, nor was I involved in the license agreements, the likely motivation for Zondervan wanting this done can be found in Alabama's statement here.

 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 5 2015 11:27 AM

Tommy Ball:
the likely motivation for Zondervan wanting this done can be found in Alabama's statement here.

It would not be so scandalous if Zondervan would actually go ahead and produce audio books but they won't. I have purchased all three Zondervan Reference Bundles as well as other Zondervan collections. I am losing my eyesight and would like to have the read aloud functional.

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 5 2015 11:46 AM

Patrick S.:

Dan Francis:

Because publishers like Zondervan may complain that they [Logos] are breaking their contracts that forbid it.

But we are talking about the difference between a professionally recorded audio (Zondervan) versus the built-in robot text-to-speech (OS X) correct? So it's not like someone is stealing Zondervan's resource, the person is using (putting up with) a basic text-to-speech functionality.

I agree with you fully. HC is one of the largest publishers in the world and I am sure Logos is far more concerned with keeping the Zondervan titles than possibly having them pulled. Until some group with deep pockets is willing to challenge them in courts I do not see it changing. Zondervan may be in the wrong and may be discriminating against people with disabilities. But that is yet to be proven in a court of law and so Zondervan will likely not change it's Logos policy even though they were forced to in kindle because of litigation.

-Dan

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 5 2015 1:06 PM

Super.Tramp:

Tommy Ball:
the likely motivation for Zondervan wanting this done can be found in Alabama's statement here.

It would not be so scandalous if Zondervan would actually go ahead and produce audio books but they won't. I have purchased all three Zondervan Reference Bundles as well as other Zondervan collections. I am losing my eyesight and would like to have the read aloud functional.

Maybe Faithlife could strike a deal with Zondervan to have Read Aloud enabled by default and disabled for all products where Big Z offers an audio version on any platform - maybe combined with integrating these into the Logos offering (which now is possible and wasn't in "former times" when the blanket disable was implemented).

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