Quality and Update Cycles Beyond Logos 6

Page 3 of 7 (122 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next > ... Last »
This post has 121 Replies | 9 Followers

Posts 3938
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 21 2015 1:13 PM

Eli Evans:

So, not going subscription-only any time soon. Hope that helps, thanks!

That means it might still be an option at some point in the future?!

L2 lvl4, L3 Scholars, L4 Scholars, L5 Platinum,  L6 Collectors. L7 Baptist Portfolio. L8 Baptist Platinum.

Posts 13360
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 21 2015 1:26 PM

Kyle G. Anderson:
First, Would the forums work for you? Prior to L6 we had a monthly cycle of pushing out updated resources. When L6 hit we changed this to an every-other-week cycle. Now that the fever of L6 is slowing down for you, we will be pulling back to a monthly cycle.

They'd work for me, but the blog would get more exposure, and I think it's sufficiently useful and interesting to warrant that wider exposure.

Kyle G. Anderson:
Second, Why a monthly cycle? It's not a magical number. We simply want to balance responsive turn-around times on updated resources--especially for non-critical but urgent resource updates--while minimizing the frequency users will be asked to download and re-index their library.

It doesn't need to be monthly, but I think it should be scheduled. Regular, but unscheduled features tend to get forgotten quite quickly. We should have a Logos Patch Tuesday Smile.

Posts 451
Mitchell | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 21 2015 2:25 PM

I like the sound of this. I'm very glad you realize that the subscription model will only appeal to a subset of users, that's very comforting.

Something that hasn't yet been mentioned: a subscription model that regularly rolls out new features, all of which are occasionally bundled up and sold as an upgrade, would probably keep the quality complaints down. If you build 20 new features and release them all at once, people get hit by bugs all at once which leads to perception of lower quality. If those same features are rolled out to at least a subset of users over the course of a year, the de-bugging process will also be more spread out and thus easier on the users.

Posts 604
John Fugh, Jr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 21 2015 4:21 PM

I need some explanation: Is the "subscription" model just for the software or resources?  Having spent a lot of money on resources, I not interested in renting new resources.  (BTW, I understand that I will not "have" to rent..both models will be available.)  But, I can't seem to figure out if the subscription is for the software so that like proclaim, releases are more frequent.

Posts 27687
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 21 2015 5:40 PM

John Fugh, Jr.:
I need some explanation: Is the "subscription" model just for the software or resources?

Resources.

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 2467
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 21 2015 6:52 PM

MJ. Smith:

Seriously, the devil is in the details of documentation, subscription features and transparency. Done right it will work. Done wrong and it will just increase the ratio of whines to praise.

Absolutely. Yes

Posts 1829
mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 21 2015 9:04 PM

I will not support subscription style. Once subscription is implemented, Logos would not be the same again, I guarantee it. 

A Movie can be watched once and be done with. Forever.

A Dictionary cannot. Period.

Not only the subscription will effect the regular classic buying style, pricing will be more competitive (read:expensive)

I say TAG all those book properly FIRST, AND FIX the VISUAL COPY feature. 

98% of Logos user don't even know how to use collection rules, and you expect regular and new users to subscribe? They'll be disappointed once they find out how poor the tagging on the books.

Posts 4645
Forum MVP
Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 22 2015 1:22 AM

mike:
98% of Logos user don't even know how to use collection rules, and you expect regular and new users to subscribe? They'll be disappointed once they find out how poor the tagging on the books.

Mike - I have to agree with you. Tagging, the 'Headline Feature' in Logos is abysmal outside bibles. Even relatively new publications (I am working my way through Tom Wright's 'Christian Origins Series' this year and it is a case in point) . Hardly any of the references are tagged to either the internal reference points, external resources which I own, or to items in the Logos catalogue.

Bob has said that many of his customers buy one base collection and then never upgrade. I am not surprised - if I had come to Logos via the usual route I would not have persevered past the disappointment of the first book or two.

I can understand older publications lagging behind in the update stakes; but relatively new ones! The Paul book in the Origins series was only published last year - for these books there is no excuse.

Posts 618
Ryan | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 22 2015 1:44 AM

Bob Pritchett:

The team is also planning to post more often, and to be clearer about what they're doing, so all their hard word doesn't just silently download in the night.

Bob, I have noticed that since Logos 6 rolled out I have seen a significant number of Faithlife employees posting in the forums much more often. I just wanted to tell you how much I appreciate that. For me it really goes a long way towards feeling valued by Faithlife.

Posts 1829
mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 22 2015 5:55 AM

Ryan B:

Bob, I have noticed that since Logos 6 rolled out I have seen a significant number of Faithlife employees posting in the forums much more often. I just wanted to tell you how much I appreciate that. For me it really goes a long way towards feeling valued by Faithlife.

Where have you been? As far as I can remember, Logos' employees have been a no show throughout December and first week January. They have forever-vacation-policy. (kinda nice, because they work on project with no really deadlines)

Posts 1890
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 22 2015 5:56 AM

Bob Pritchett:
B. Our Content Innovation department is working on better documentation of our data sets.

Bob,

As always, thanks for being open about where things are at and genuinely interested in customer input.

One issue that has gotten significant discussion in the forums since the L6 release but was mostly lacking in your post was documentation. You do mention data set documentation, but that seemed to be it. I'm surprised that the replies to your post thus far haven't pointed this omission out.

Does Faithlife agree with the general consensus (I think that's a fair summary of the opinions - maybe I'm wrong) that documentation on how to use the program's features is inadequate? If so, what are the plans to improve that? If not, why does Faithlife disagree?

A thought I've had that could improve this is to force internal testing to only be based on the documentation that is going to be released with the program. If the testers can't figure out how to use the program, it's a safe bet that the bell curve majority of customers won't be able to either.

Thanks again,

Donnie

Posts 2467
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 22 2015 6:50 AM

Thanks for pointing that out, Donnie. It sounded a bit odd to me too.

Posts 10178
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 22 2015 7:58 AM

A. Bob's not going to do a manual.  That's like Steve Jobs supporting stylus's (vs the obnoxious bluetooth/microphone).

B. Bob's going to do subscriptions.  That's not the question.  He asked that one months ago, with exactly the same answers.  He's just spreading oil on the waters beforehand. 

C. Bob's going to ship headaches more frequently.  The problem is that after headache 6.1.2 is finally debugged in 6.1.3, 6.1.3 will have new bugs.  So you really can't get 6.1.2 without bugs ... you are going to help Bob debug.  Get used to it.  Do your Bible study on the side.

D. The tagging issue illustrates the final point: they've got a quality problem.  As Francis said.


Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 22 2015 8:27 AM

Donnie Hale:
One issue that has gotten significant discussion in the forums since the L6 release but was mostly lacking in your post was documentation. You do mention data set documentation, but that seemed to be it. I'm surprised that the replies to your post thus far haven't pointed this omission out.

Somebody did point this out. I did. 

https://community.logos.com/forums/p/99549/688585.aspx#688585

Super.Tramp:
Bob Pritchett:
Our Content Innovation department is working on better documentation of our data sets.
The loud clamour in the forums is not just for data set documentation but for comprehensive user manual covering all aspects of the program.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 1890
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 22 2015 10:10 AM

Super.Tramp:
Somebody did point this out. I did.

My apologies. I tried to read the thread carefully - guess I failed. ;)

Donnie

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 22 2015 11:21 AM

Denise:

A. Bob's not going to do a manual.  That's like Steve Jobs supporting stylus's (vs the obnoxious bluetooth/microphone).

B. Bob's going to do subscriptions.  That's not the question.  He asked that one months ago, with exactly the same answers.  He's just spreading oil on the waters beforehand. 

C. Bob's going to ship headaches more frequently.  The problem is that after headache 6.1.2 is finally debugged in 6.1.3, 6.1.3 will have new bugs.  So you really can't get 6.1.2 without bugs ... you are going to help Bob debug.  Get used to it.  Do your Bible study on the side.

D. The tagging issue illustrates the final point: they've got a quality problem.  As Francis said.

Denise, you hit the nail on the head and drove it home...Yes

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 183
Bryan S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 22 2015 11:24 AM

Super.Tramp:
Super.Tramp:
Bob Pritchett:
Our Content Innovation department is working on better documentation of our data sets.
The loud clamour in the forums is not just for data set documentation but for comprehensive user manual covering all aspects of the program.

Thanks for pointing that out again Super Tramp...although I think Bobs hearing aid is turned down on this one...Smile

Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it's been found difficult and not tried.

Posts 791
LogosEmployee
Eli Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 22 2015 12:15 PM

Donnie Hale:

One issue that has gotten significant discussion in the forums since the L6 release but was mostly lacking in your post was documentation. You do mention data set documentation, but that seemed to be it. I'm surprised that the replies to your post thus far haven't pointed this omission out.

Does Faithlife agree with the general consensus (I think that's a fair summary of the opinions - maybe I'm wrong) that documentation on how to use the program's features is inadequate? If so, what are the plans to improve that? If not, why does Faithlife disagree?

A thought I've had that could improve this is to force internal testing to only be based on the documentation that is going to be released with the program. If the testers can't figure out how to use the program, it's a safe bet that the bell curve majority of customers won't be able to either.

Hi, Donnie. Right now, the testers actually write the documentation that's is released with the program, so if they can't figure it out, they have to keep asking around until they do. Smile

But yes, we certainly hear you that the on-board help documentation doesn't live up to expectations. I'd say it's less inadequate and more B-A-D -- "broken as designed" -- right now, so fixing it is going to mean going back and re-checking some of the philosophical decisions that got us to where we are. We haven't said anything about that yet because we've been going after the lower-hanging fruit (for example, release notes for datasets) and we don't have concrete plans for improvements to help documentation. Yet. I called a brainstorming/problem-solving meeting that's going to happen this afternoon, and if we have anything new or interesting to report, or anything to ask for feedback on, we'll make sure to post.

Also: We've shared this thread around internally, and we're eliciting ideas from lots of different quarters for how to do better in order to serve you better.

Also: One advantage of moving to more rapid design-develop-deploy cycles is that we are able to make baby steps in the right direction, or change course quicker if we're not moving.

Posts 8967
RIP
Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 22 2015 12:53 PM

Eli Evans:
We haven't said anything about that yet because we've been going after the lower-hanging fruit (for example, release notes for datasets) and we don't have concrete plans for improvements to help documentation. Yet. I called a brainstorming/problem-solving meeting that's going to happen this afternoon, and if we have anything new or interesting to report, or anything to ask for feedback on, we'll make sure to post.

I appreciate the increased presence and responsiveness of Faithlife employees on the forums. It gives us hope.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 594
Ted Weis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 22 2015 3:50 PM

Rayner:
I like the sound of all of it (including shorter release cycles) except for the point about subscriptions.  The only thing I'd be interested in by subscription would be up to date journals

Given the fact that journals already require subscriptions, I could envision looking at a long list of them, ticking the boxes of those I want in Logos, and in turn getting a custom subscription service. While I wouldn't own the journal, I would have access to the latest ones.

Page 3 of 7 (122 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next > ... Last » | RSS