Throwing in the towel!

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Alain Maashe | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 3:49 PM

A word of caution (or exhortation)

I was reminded a year ago that Logos is not a Church but a business.

I would like to issue the same reminder today since we cannot have it both ways and acts as if users should not consider themselves customers.

Since Logos is a business, its paying customers have reasonable expectations of quality and functionality. The customers also have the right to let the company know when those expectations were met or exceeded but also when they were not met (some call it venting).

Since Logos is a business that operates on Christian principles and that most of its customers are assumed to be Christians, there is also an expectation that they will express their frustration in a spiritually mature way (some do not always come across that way).

What is however, not reasonable is the desire to suppress all dissents and get on those who dare expressing their disappointment with the product (a product bought with their hard earned money). It is fine if you think that Logos 4 is the best thing since sliced bread. But it is also fine if you think that Logos 4 is more like Vista and needs some work. Logos needs an accurate representation of how its customers feel about its products and the fact that well meaning users (that are not employed by Logos) feel that it is their duty suppress or discourage negative comments might end up being counterproductive and in fact hurt Logos’ bottom line  (its raison d’être).

Of course, the entire spectrum is represented in the forum and we have the good, the less good, and the bad from both sides of the satisfaction/dissatisfaction debate with Logos 4

While I acknowledge the necessity to show that many are satisfied with the program and that it is not impossible to make it work, it is even more important to take care of dissatisfied customers and treat them with extra care, something that was not necessarily done with MarCia.

From a business perspective, those who love Logos no matter what (diehard fans) are not the one the company worries about. I believe that Logos is more worried about new customers that might be disappointed by their purchase (it matters little whether or not it is an issue on their end or a problem with the product itself). If we want to help Logos, when a frustrated customer vents, the last thing we should try to do is to heighten their level of frustration by lecturing them or making them feel like they are an anomaly and that it must be their fault since our own machines are working perfectly.

This might make us feel good because we have defended Logos’ honor, but it will probably results in the loss of a customer who might lead others to stay away from the product. Our desire to help Logos might end up hurting Logos where it counts the most (remember it is a business).

Maybe we should learn from Bob himself (Logos’ CEO), he does not berate or rebuke the customer (not church member), but seeks to diffuse the tension and provide a non-condescending solution with empathy while erring on the side of caution and blaming the issue on Logos coming short in some way. It is such attitude informed by clear spiritual principles that maintains my faith in the company despite my mild disappointment with a product that I bought within minutes of its release. This creates goodwill that cannot be bought but that might be destroyed by the actions of oothers

Let us not also let the frustration that we had we other users that were less than kind to our dear program, color or influence the way we respond to new forum users that had nothing to do with it.

Criticism is not a bad thing (we just hope it will be constructive and done in a charitable way), a company like Logos needs that kind of feedback in order to improve and better satisfy its customers, especially those that are on the edge. After all without Vista (and the criticism Microsoft received), there would be no Windows 7.

If some users want to vent, let them vent (they paid for the product and they have the right to express the way they feel about their investment) and if we think we have nothing positive to say (about Logos and/or the user’s situation) let us not say anything so as not to become part of the problem and a detriment to the company we seek to help.

Alain

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 3:52 PM

Hi MarCia,

I have a few suggestions for you. If you have tried them, then please ignore the comments:

1. Close the explorer as it really uses up quite a bit of processing as it follows you everywhere you go in the text. If you want, you can go to guides/create a new guide template and duplicate the items most important to you, then close all the panels in the guide until you need to use them.

2. Create your own exegetical guide and include the following:

Notice when you change verses, the list of words does not populate, simply click on what you want to study. It will open, study it, open the next word etc. I could not use the EG unless I made this adjustment.

I have a few videos you can find in the Wiki that discuss some ideas for making L4 more efficient. I run on a Macbook Pro using Parallels 5 and XP. The issue with the notes, I do not know what to advise, except make sure the note is not available in every resource you open.  You can try this if that is the case, click on do not show in any resource and then select the note only in the resource you want it to be available in.  You can try going to tools/program settings and turn off the internet to stop syncing. Perhaps some of these may improve the speed of L4.

Lastly, there are sometimes problems that are difficult to diagnose and correct. Perhaps if you have tried everything, then L3 is your best course of action at this time. 

Posts 325
Rene Atchley | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 4:06 PM

Perhaps we should just give up on L4 and move onto L5 with its emphasis on the world wide Logos neural network that will send out terminators to help eliminate human problems with the interface....just a thought...Stick out tongue

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 4:46 PM

Alain

"If some users want to vent, let them vent (they paid for the product and they have the right to express the way they feel about their investment) and if we think we have nothing positive to say (about Logos and/or the user’s situation) let us not say anything so as not to become part of the problem and a detriment to the company we seek to help."


Thanks Alain, for your perspective on this matter. If you ever visit the UK drop me a line.

 

Ted

 


Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ

Posts 5337
Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 4:58 PM

Alain Maashe:
A word of caution (or exhortation)...

Well said!

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 5:50 PM

Todd Phillips:
I don't understand this.  All of my resources "word wrap", the only place they don't is when they have images or tables that couldn't fit in a small space.  Do your windows not look like this?:

I don't believe you understand what she means by "word wrap."  I could be wrong but I think she is referring to having multisyllabic words divide at the syllable break. They don't do that.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 5:56 PM

MarCia Mooney:

I'm using Win Xp pro (win7 came with the computer but I saw no need to jump on the bandwagon when XP works so well for me) Do you think it might be because I am still using XP that L4 doesn't work on my machine? 

Thanks for you response!

 

I have L4 on two computers: An HP laptop with a core 2 duo running at 2.4 Ghz and 6 Gb of memory running Windows Vista, and an old Gateway Athlon 1100 with 750 Mb of memory running Windows Xp.  It runs slower on my Gateway as would be expected, but it isn't as slow as you report.  One thing you haven't yet mentioned is the size of  your HD and how full it happens to be.  That could have considerable influence.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 6:00 PM

Mark A. Smith:

MarCia Mooney:
I'm using Win Xp pro

I have an older desktop computer (Hyperthreading 3 GHZ CPU with only 2 GB of RAM and running XP SP-3) and it is SLOW with Logos. But it is five years old which is supposed to be too old for Logos 4. I doubt XP is causing all the lag, but you probably would see an improvement with W7. But that means starting all over, reloading all your software. Might be worth it since the computer is new and you will be using whatever operating system is on it for quite some time.

I've got you beat.  My old computer is a 10 yr old Athlon 1100 with 750 Mb RAM and no hyperthreading, but it still runs faster than she reports.  I suspect her problem might reside in the size and occupancy of her HD.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 6:03 PM

George Somsel:
I've got you beat.  My old computer is a 10 yr old Athlon 1100 with 750 Mb RAM and no hyperthreading,

Why does it not surprise me that a person with a caveman avatar would have such a computer. Wink

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 376
Dan Sheppard | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 6:57 PM

Mark A. Smith:
Why does it not surprise me that a person with a caveman avatar would have such a computer. Wink

 

Even his computer bugs are prehistoric!

 

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 7:02 PM

Mark A. Smith:

George Somsel:
I've got you beat.  My old computer is a 10 yr old Athlon 1100 with 750 Mb RAM and no hyperthreading,

Why does it not surprise me that a person with a caveman avatar would have such a computer. Wink

Don't laugh, it works fairly well even with L4.  I haven't been able to get it to install on my Sinclair.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 60
Edwin Kwok | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 7:26 PM

George Somsel:

Mark A. Smith:

MarCia Mooney:
I'm using Win Xp pro

I have an older desktop computer (Hyperthreading 3 GHZ CPU with only 2 GB of RAM and running XP SP-3) and it is SLOW with Logos. But it is five years old which is supposed to be too old for Logos 4. I doubt XP is causing all the lag, but you probably would see an improvement with W7. But that means starting all over, reloading all your software. Might be worth it since the computer is new and you will be using whatever operating system is on it for quite some time.

I've got you beat.  My old computer is a 10 yr old Athlon 1100 with 750 Mb RAM and no hyperthreading, but it still runs faster than she reports.  I suspect her problem might reside in the size and occupancy of her HD.

George,

It is possible that you are right. I had a 40gig partition for Fusion in OSX Snow Leopard initially, and it was painfully slow in everything Logos4 does, (scrolling etc). I increased the size to 80gig and L4 speed becomes "normal" now.

Edwin

Posts 1557
Blair Laird | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 7:59 PM

MarCia Mooney:
I give up! 

More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

 


Posts 348
Ralph Mauch | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 8:11 PM

Blair Laird:

MarCia Mooney:
I give up! 

More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings

But even in a post, context is also necessary... While I can agree with the Scripture you quote, not getting into God's Word because of a bad computer glitch is a tad different. But possibly I didn't get what you meant?

 

Posts 1557
Blair Laird | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 8:19 PM

RalphMauch:
But even in a post, context is also necessary

Point being that God uses the circumstances of this life to grow us up spiritually (Even building our patience through frustrating computers). There is one literal interpretation, as you said context is necessary. However Hermeneutics is more then a literal interpretation. It is also a life application. Stick out tongue That scripture immediately popped in my head after I read his post, so I thought I should share. I dont have the answers to help with this problem...

Be of good cheer the birth pains are becoming more frequent.

Posts 1557
Blair Laird | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 8:30 PM

RalphMauch:
context is also necessary

 

You may have this book in your library. It is a how to on hermeneutics. Utley is a great professor

I. The Fifth & Sixth Interpretive Questions
A. No interpretation is complete without personal application. The “then” of inspired Scripture must become the “now” of illumined understanding and lifestyle.

Robert James Dr. Utley, You Can Understand the Bible! (Marshall, Texas: Bible Lessons International, 1996), 39.

Posts 142
James Macleod | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 8:53 PM

EdwinKwok:

George Somsel:

Mark A. Smith:

MarCia Mooney:
I'm using Win Xp pro

I have an older desktop computer (Hyperthreading 3 GHZ CPU with only 2 GB of RAM and running XP SP-3) and it is SLOW with Logos. But it is five years old which is supposed to be too old for Logos 4. I doubt XP is causing all the lag, but you probably would see an improvement with W7. But that means starting all over, reloading all your software. Might be worth it since the computer is new and you will be using whatever operating system is on it for quite some time.

I've got you beat.  My old computer is a 10 yr old Athlon 1100 with 750 Mb RAM and no hyperthreading, but it still runs faster than she reports.  I suspect her problem might reside in the size and occupancy of her HD.

George,

It is possible that you are right. I had a 40gig partition for Fusion in OSX Snow Leopard initially, and it was painfully slow in everything Logos4 does, (scrolling etc). I increased the size to 80gig and L4 speed becomes "normal" now.

Edwin

My guess is that there is some underlying issue occurring here unrelated to Logos but rather related to the underlying .Net/WPF Framework. As a .Net developer myself, I have seen issues like this myself. They can turn out to be anything from incompatibilities with anti virus software to a bad video card driver. I sympathize with Logos since I have personally beaten my head against the wall on issues like this often. This is the nature of Windows based computers with so many different hardware vendors and configurations. I would try different configurations to see if it resolves the speed issues. Update the bios, update all the drivers, try using generic video drivers, exit all apps running in the toolbar, etc.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 8:56 PM

James Macleod:
My guess is that there is some underlying issue occurring here unrelated to Logos but rather related to the underlying .Net/WPF Framework. As a .Net developer myself, I have seen issues like this myself. They can turn out to be anything from incompatibilities with anti virus software to a bad video card driver. I sympathize with Logos since I have personally beaten my head against the wall on issues like this often. This is the nature of Windows based computers with so many different hardware vendors and configurations. I would try different configurations to see if it resolves the speed issues. Update the bios, update all the drivers, try using generic video drivers, exit all apps running in the toolbar, etc.

I agree. I think the Logos techies need to step in - if MarCia will ask them to.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 8967
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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 9:45 PM

James Macleod:
My guess is that there is some underlying issue occurring here unrelated to Logos but rather related to the underlying .Net/WPF Framework. As a .Net developer myself, I have seen issues like this myself. They can turn out to be anything from incompatibilities with anti virus software to a bad video card driver. I sympathize with Logos since I have personally beaten my head against the wall on issues like this often. This is the nature of Windows based computers with so many different hardware vendors and configurations.

I agree.

MarCia, Is there any chance you are running any software from Freedom Scientific to help you see your text? I have tried ZoomText & a few other visibility enhancers and have run into precisely these problems on software other than Logos. Some text wrap issues are caused by the lack of an updated driver. (They never developed a proper driver.) I ended up removing all my visual enhancement software and started using dual monitors, the second one being a 36" monstrosity. I am using very large text in notepad all the time and shrinking it back down to post. Let me know what special sight software you use, if any. Thanks.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 58
MarCya Mooney | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2010 10:01 PM

I’m sorry I am being unclear… What I mean by “Word Wrap” is when you have a book open in say one of three columns instead of open on the full screen.  No matter how small the column is, the words should wrap to the next line so that you can read all the way down without opening the window fully.

 

i.e. if the following were wrapped in a small space it would look like the second example

1.  The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.

 

Should wrap in a small space to read like this:

2.  The quick brown

Fox jumps over the

Lazy dog.

 

I hope this makes it a little clearer 

thanks!

 

 

 

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