Robertson's Word Pictures or Vines Expository?

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This post has 46 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 2034
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 23 2015 6:13 AM

Kevin Maples:

George Somsel:
For NT work, BDAG is the ONLY lexicon that is worth getting as your main source
I agree that BDAG is the authoritative lexicon that is obviously an indisputable point. However, I don't believe it is good advice for someone without a knowledge of Greek to try to use it. Most people know enough Greek to be dangerous, meaning they don't really know what they think they know.

For example:

"One of the most enduring of errors, the root fallacy presupposes that every word actually has a meaning bound up with its shape or its components. In this view, meaning is determined by etymology; that is, by the root or roots of a word."

Carson, D. A. (1996). Exegetical fallacies (2nd ed., p. 28). Carlisle, U.K.; Grand Rapids, MI: Paternoster; Baker Books.

   

YesYes Fully Agree!! I shudder to think about all the poor sermons I preached in years past based upon a loose reading of BDAG.

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 23 2015 6:35 AM

Kevin Maples:

George Somsel:
For NT work, BDAG is the ONLY lexicon that is worth getting as your main source
I agree that BDAG is the authoritative lexicon that is obviously an indisputable point. However, I don't believe it is good advice for someone without a knowledge of Greek to try to use it. Most people know enough Greek to be dangerous, meaning they don't really know what they think they know.

For example:

"One of the most enduring of errors, the root fallacy presupposes that every word actually has a meaning bound up with its shape or its components. In this view, meaning is determined by etymology; that is, by the root or roots of a word."

Carson, D. A. (1996). Exegetical fallacies (2nd ed., p. 28). Carlisle, U.K.; Grand Rapids, MI: Paternoster; Baker Books.

   

Other lexica are far more likely to be misused by someone unacquainted with Greek.  Since, in many cases, BDAG has multiple glosses and lists passages of examples of the usage for particular words, they are likely to be able to get a sense of how the word is being used in their particular passage.  Contrast this with some "lexicon" that simply lists various glosses for a word one after another and the user simply picks one that he likes (probably for a theological reason).  Now, THAT is dangerous. 

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 808
Kevin Maples | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 23 2015 11:44 AM

George Somsel:
Other lexica are far more likely to be misused by someone unacquainted with Greek.
I agree that is why I did not recommend a lexicon I recommended Robertson's Word Pictures. 

Posts 790
James Hiddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 23 2015 4:16 PM

Thanks for mentioning Vine's and Exegetical fallacies guys. I hope to add those to my resources.

God Bless you always forever!

James

Posts 7386
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 23 2015 4:33 PM

Why settle for one, when you can have them both? They are relatively cheap and compliment one another; though I prefer Vine's and use it more often.  BDAG is a superb resource, you should consider it too.

DAL

Posts 1937
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 23 2015 5:32 PM

David Thomas:
I shudder to think about all the poor sermons I preached in years past based upon a loose reading of BDAG.

I'm with George. Start with BDAG, and you'll probably end there.

Here's something that I think is important to know at this specific point in time: Logos 6 has made using BDAG almost like cheating. If you turn on "Outline Formatting" in the visual filter menu for BDAG, it makes BDAG readable for the uninitiated (it doesn't expand abbreviations or the like). It structures the display in an outline format according to the hard-to-discern structure implicit in the BDAG arrangement on a word. Again, it makes it so much more readable that it really feels like cheating.

FWIW...

Donnie

Posts 47
Michael S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 24 2015 2:21 AM

Thanks Gentlemen,

I do have BDAG- as it was recommended on the "how to use Greek and Hebrew" video series (Another thread, and having update issues).  And I also have Carson's book, paper edition- not on Logos.  I have not studied the languages, but have already studied enough to know that there is a danger for me, which is why I want to utilize this wonderful program to do the heavy lifting for me- and why I want good resources to ensure I am doing thorough study and "correctly handling the Word of God".

I don't have HALOT- but I do have Holladay, BDB, and some others.  So with these and Louw-Nida, Kittels, Robertson, Wuest, and Vincent- plus the Lexham works, do you think I am equipped enough as far as having the tools to "cheat" with Logos?

Thanks.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 24 2015 5:03 AM

While BDB isn't up to date with the latest discoveries in the field, unlike Thayer with Greek, BDB is still quite useable.  If you decide to get into Hebrew seriously, I would recommend HALOT or even The Dictionary of Classical Hebrew, but that can wait.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 808
Kevin Maples | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 24 2015 5:49 AM

Michael S.:
I don't have HALOT- but I do have Holladay, BDB, and some others.  So with these and Louw-Nida, Kittels, Robertson, Wuest, and Vincent- plus the Lexham works, do you think I am equipped enough as far as having the tools to "cheat" with Logos?
Yes

Posts 47
Michael S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 24 2015 8:04 AM

George,

what do you think of CHALOT (Holladay)?

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 24 2015 8:15 AM

Michael S.:

George,

what do you think of CHALOT (Holladay)?

I have it but never use it.  I go for the full-blown version.  It's not too bad, but for me it's a bit deficient.  It does have some examples of usage which I would require of any lexicon I would consider, and at a fifth the price of HALOT it might seem attractive.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 47
Michael S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 25 2015 12:58 PM

How does Liddell and Scott Lexicon relate?  Evaluations?  Comparisons with the others mentioned?

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 25 2015 2:31 PM

Michael S.:

How does Liddell and Scott Lexicon relate?  Evaluations?  Comparisons with the others mentioned?

Great for classical works, but you need BDAG for NT.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 1064
JohnB | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 12 2015 2:19 PM

Donnie Hale:
If you turn on "Outline Formatting" in the visual filter menu for BDAG, it makes BDAG readable for the uninitiated (it doesn't expand abbreviations or the like). It structures the display in an outline format according to the hard-to-discern structure implicit in the BDAG arrangement on a word. Again, it makes it so much more readable that it really feels like cheating.

Oh wow! I had not discovered that. It is like wiping the condensation off a window. Thanks so much!!

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 12 2015 3:52 PM

JohnB:

Donnie Hale:
If you turn on "Outline Formatting" in the visual filter menu for BDAG, it makes BDAG readable for the uninitiated (it doesn't expand abbreviations or the like). It structures the display in an outline format according to the hard-to-discern structure implicit in the BDAG arrangement on a word. Again, it makes it so much more readable that it really feels like cheating.

Oh wow! I had not discovered that. It is like wiping the condensation off a window. Thanks so much!!

I just recently got L6 and have not used any of the new features such as "Outline Formatting,"  The problem is that I don't find it.  Help !

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 29279
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 12 2015 4:01 PM

Do visual filters help?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 12 2015 4:36 PM

MJ. Smith:

Do visual filters help?

No, that's where Donnie said it was located, but I don't find it.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 12 2015 5:03 PM

I just did a little search of Logos' site and found that they're selling a "Lexicon Reformatting Dataset" for $5.00 (https://www.logos.com/product/45626/lexicon-reformatting-dataset).  Wasn't that supposed to be included in the crossgrade?

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 29279
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 12 2015 5:26 PM

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 29279
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 12 2015 5:27 PM

George Somsel:

I just did a little search of Logos' site and found that they're selling a "Lexicon Reformatting Dataset" for $5.00 (https://www.logos.com/product/45626/lexicon-reformatting-dataset).  Wasn't that supposed to be included in the crossgrade?

I believe it is ... but if you didn't buy the crossgrade ...

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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