"No equivalent" in Septuagint translation in BWS

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Francis | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Feb 11 2015 4:22 AM

There are 10 hits for syntithemi in the LXX but only two altogether show on the translation wheel and one is labeled as "no equivalent". What's up with that?

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 11 2015 4:43 AM

Francis,

I can only assume, not test, but to me it seems to make some sense:

  • Hits in those LXX-books that habe no BHS equivalent (deuterocanonical books like Maccabees) can't show in the "translation wheel" at all since they are not translated - at least as far as the BWS goes
  • The hits in the translation wheel that refer to a text part that can't be "reverse-interlineared" to a Hebrew text have no equivalent Hebrew word and the ring shows it.

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 11 2015 5:51 AM

Good catch! Indeed all of the hits not cited only exist in Greek books. And the remaining one that is listed as having no equivalent translates a completely different expression and cannot be considered a word equivalent (וְיֶ֨תֶר דִּבְרֵ֧י)

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 11 2015 4:20 PM

Francis:
And the remaining one that is listed as having no equivalent translates a completely different expression and cannot be considered a word equivalent (וְיֶ֨תֶר דִּבְרֵ֧י)

It doesn't translate anything - it is part of a Greek addition to the MT (verses 28a to 28c). In the more 'usual' sense it could be a Greek word(s) inserted to aid the translation from Hebrew e.g. λόγοις εἰρηνικοῖς at Num 21:21

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 12 2015 12:43 AM

Perhaps the word "translate" was indeed not the best; "replace" might be more accurate.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 12 2015 2:02 AM

Francis:
Perhaps the word "translate" was indeed not the best; "replace" might be more accurate.

Replace? It's part of an addition to the LXX i.e. not from the Hebrew.

Where does your Hebrew phrase fit in?

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 12 2015 2:26 AM

As the picture below shows, there is an insertion of a different text in the LXX as compared to the MT at this point:

The verse I was looking at is part of the insertion and is clearly derived from 1 Kings 22:45 (cf., parr 2 Chronicles 20:34). However, in the insertion, the expression ἃ συνέθετο replaces וְיֶ֨תֶר דִּבְרֵ֧י as it is found in 1 Kings 22:45 (MT). The latter is literally translated however at that place in the LXX: τὰ λοιπὰ τῶν λόγων.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 12 2015 4:38 AM

Francis:
The verse I was looking at is part of the insertion and is clearly derived from 1 Kings 22:45

Perhaps, but it is not in the purvey of BWS to make such conjectures. In the context of 16:28c there is no Hebrew equivalent.

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Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 12 2015 4:54 AM

I agree, as far as BWS goes. But in translational studies, using the LXX as a mediating text, this kind of comparison can be called for and this is, after all, part of the what the Septuagint Translation section in LXX seeks to assist. The way it works is fine though and perfectly understandable. It would probably be difficult to implement something more complicated as the case described above.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 12 2015 2:19 PM

The BWS for the LXX has a major disadvantage compared to other texts -- we do not know the base from which it was translated and in some cases have no surviving Hebrew manuscript, only fragments (often DSS). So for the LXX one should expect nonstandard results.

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