[acknowledged]"No Results for selected lemma" in Morphology Charts

Page 1 of 2 (36 items) 1 2 Next >
This post has 35 Replies | 6 Followers

Posts 2066
Forum MVP
Reuben Helmuth | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Mar 2 2015 4:54 AM

Apparently not all lemmas are included? Why would it show that there are no results for "אכל"? This lemma occurs nearly a thousand times, so I thought surely the morph charts would have included it.

Am I doing something wrong that is preventing results from being found?

Posts 29609
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 2 2015 5:01 AM

I don't know the answer to your question, but you might need to provide more details.

macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 11938
Forum MVP
NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 2 2015 5:16 AM


alabama24:

I don't know the answer to your question, but you might need to provide more details.

Actually I think someone from Faithlife responsible for this interactive resource needs to answer this. I replicated this yesterday by copy&pasting the hebrew characters into the resource#s search field: Logos automatically offers about four lemmas, the most frequent of them resembles the verb "to eat" (699 uses). The Morph Chart interactive doesn't recognize this lemma that Logos suggests in the selection picker. It's not a problem for other Logos tools such as BWS - and the Morph Chart tool worked for me for other Greek and Hebrew lemmas, inculding one rarer one of those offered for picking together with "to eat". 

Such "archaic", often used day-to-day words usually are the most notorious in every language for irregularities, so I suspected that the tool maybe runs into an issue, however I didn't see anything pointing towards this, not even the existence of homonyms that would require a differentiation between same-written words of different meaning (and potentially different grammatical treatment, if this is a possibility in Hebrew at all).   

 

 

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 2 2015 5:23 AM

Reuben Helmuth:

Apparently not all lemmas are included? Why would it show that there are no results for "אכל"? 

Replicated using 6.1 SR-1

An alternative is Morph Search Analysis:

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 2066
Forum MVP
Reuben Helmuth | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 2 2015 5:35 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

An alternative is Morph Search Analysis:

Thanks, I did think of that and it works...it's just not as easy to visualize the grammatical distribution.

Posts 15805
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 2 2015 5:40 AM

Reuben Helmuth:

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

An alternative is Morph Search Analysis:

Thanks, I did think of that and it works...it's just not as easy to visualize the grammatical distribution.

+1 Yes Concur.  Hoping for Faithlife insight about lemmas missing from Morphology Chart.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 2066
Forum MVP
Reuben Helmuth | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 2 2015 5:43 AM

I thought that perhaps only lemmas occurring less than a certain amount of times are included, but this isn't the case either since the lemma בוא which occurs 2562 times is included.

Also, I found a lemma that did produce results but very obviously incomplete results. The lemma "ארץ" which also occurs over 2500 times displays less than 100 results.

Posts 2066
Forum MVP
Reuben Helmuth | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 2 2015 5:45 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Hoping for Faithlife insight about lemmas missing from Morphology Chart.

Same here! Yes

Posts 2066
Forum MVP
Reuben Helmuth | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 3 2015 8:30 AM

Could Bradley or someone from FaithLife please chime in here?!

Posts 816
LogosEmployee
Eli Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 3 2015 3:48 PM

Hi, folks. Sorry for the delay in responding.

1) By design, the morph chart does not include certain lemmas that have no interesting morphological characteristics -- particles, adverbs, certain other parts of speech. We will be documenting exactly which forms are and are not included very soon. In the meantime, here's what looking at the code tells me:

  • The following morphs should be covered in both languages: Verbs (including Participles), Nouns, Adjectives.
  • The following are only covered in Greek: Pronouns, Articles.
  • Anything else is not covered: Particles, Adverbs, etc.

2) There is a bug where some verbs or nouns don't generate any results. That bug is already on a list of things to fix as soon as we can. It takes some specialized knowledge or we would have fixed it by now. (In my troubleshooting, it seems to affect mostly verbs. But that's not definitive.)
Since אכל is a verb, I think what you're seeing is part of this bug. We'll see what we can do to speed it along.

Posts 2066
Forum MVP
Reuben Helmuth | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 4 2015 8:38 AM

Thanks for the response Eli!

I'm happy to hear that this is something that is known and being worked on. I'm also extremely relieved that it's not a case of supporting only a select subset of verbs.

I suppose that you're aware that it's not only a problem of NO results? As I pointed out in a previous post, there are also instances of INCOMPLETE results.

All the best! ~Reuben

Posts 1666
Forum MVP
Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 2:34 AM

After this newest (6.2, came yesterday, does not say anything more precise about the version) this problem still exists Sad 

Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 8.1

Posts 32974
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 2:54 AM

You would have seen the fix mentioned in the beta release notes had it been fixed - an easy ways to keep expectations realistic although I find it does nothing for hopes.Smile

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 2066
Forum MVP
Reuben Helmuth | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 4:15 AM

Eli, 

I'm wondering whether you could let us know whether any progress has been made in the past month on this bug?

Blessing!

Posts 32974
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 18 2015 5:53 PM

bumping

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 816
LogosEmployee
Eli Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 10:18 AM

Yes. I saw the fix for this bug working on a developer's machine yesterday, and I expect that we'll push out the update shortly.

Posts 1666
Forum MVP
Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 19 2015 10:27 AM

Eli Evans:
fix for this bug working

Cool

Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 8.1

Posts 2066
Forum MVP
Reuben Helmuth | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 29 2015 6:11 AM

Eli Evans:

Yes. I saw the fix for this bug working on a developer's machine yesterday, and I expect that we'll push out the update shortly.

Sounds good! Can we expect this in an SR or will we need to wait for 6.4?

Posts 2066
Forum MVP
Reuben Helmuth | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 15 2015 8:51 AM

Bump -- 6.4-b4 and still not fixed.

Posts 1258
LogosEmployee
Dylan Rondeau | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 15 2015 9:14 AM

Reuben Helmuth:

Bump -- 6.4-b4 and still not fixed.

Morphology Charts is an interactive resource, and thus is on a different release schedule than the application, so you won't see the fix as part of an SR or beta release.

It's been quite awhile since the resource has been updated, and I know there are fixes pending, but unfortunately I don't know when this update is scheduled to ship. I'll check and make a note of this thread.

Dylan Rondeau, Software Tester

Enable Logging: Mac | Windows (Right-click "Save As...")

Page 1 of 2 (36 items) 1 2 Next > | RSS