Considering 2015 12" MacBook?
I'm wondering what peoples thoughts are on using the new 12" MacBook with Logos?
Currently I am using the 2012 Macbook Pro, and Logos is already extremely slow (windows, links, and right clicks already take several seconds to open). Do people expect the new 12" model would run Logo's better, or worse?
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With the upgraded processors, 8GB of ram and the SSD drive it should be pretty snappy.
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We won't know until someone can benchmark it, but my guess is that it will still be sluggish. I was very interested until I saw the processors: dual core M at 1.1-1.2 GHz. That's a mobile processor, and my worry is that any processor intensive tasks will be frustratingly slow (like indexing). They were optimizing for battery life, not performance, so that's why I think logos will be... okay, but not great. Would love to be proven wrong. That is a pretty sweet looking machine.
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Yes but the upgraded 15" MBP with the 2.8GHz quad core processor, now that's a different story!
http://store.apple.com/us/buy-mac/macbook-pro?product=MGXC2LL/A&step=config#
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William Gabriel said:
We won't know until someone can benchmark it, but my guess is that it will still be sluggish. I was very interested until I saw the processors: dual core M at 1.1-1.2 GHz. That's a mobile processor, and my worry is that any processor intensive tasks will be frustratingly slow (like indexing). They were optimizing for battery life, not performance, so that's why I think logos will be... okay, but not great. Would love to be proven wrong. That is a pretty sweet looking machine.
So our hope is that the Logos developers fall in love with, and all go out and get 12" MacBooks, and henceforth become interested in optimising for the Intel M and ARM CPU's
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For clarification: you mean 13 inch.
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alabama24 said:
For clarification: you mean 13 inch.
No, I am referring specifically to the 12" model. (The 13" model has much more powerful CPU options, so its not really an issue there.)
For reference, the link in my OP shows the spec comparison for the 12" to 13" model.
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J R said:
Currently I am using the 2012 Macbook Pro, and Logos is already extremely slow (windows, links, and right clicks already take several seconds to open). Do people expect the new 12" model would run Logo's better, or worse?
In my opinion, worse. Adding an SSD and upping the memory in your 2012 MacBook Pro would be a better way to run Logos better. The new MacBook aside from being thin, having a retina screen, and weighing 2 pounds, is a disappointment. And don't forget that you will need a $79 Apple adapter to attach anything to it. [:(]
In Christ,
Charles
2017 27" iMac 5K, Mojave, 10.5" iPad Pro, iPhone 7+, iPhone 8, iOS 12.0, Catalina beta, iPadOS Beta
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The tipoff is that it's labeled as a Macbook and not a Macbook Pro. On the plus side it's got a very nice display, long battery life and decent memory for RAM and drive. I'd like to see how it tests out. Perhaps the next iteration of Logos 6 with some of the promised improvements would make it fly.
I'm still using an older i3 with 4GB RAM and an SSD for Win7 and it still runs respectably with L6. So I'm sure the new Macbook is viable, but how much so remains a question,
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
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The core M is getting so very poor reviews. I read it even has a hard time with some web pages, I can only imagine how poorly Logos will run on it. I think the new MacBook Pro with "U" version of the i5 or i7 would be better
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J R said:
No, I am referring specifically to the 12" model.
Gotcha. I didn't see that. Actually, all I saw was your link address which says "13 inch."
This release kind of surprises me.
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The benchmark score has came out already, what are your thoughts so far? I currently have the rMBP 15 inch and will keep that but will get this one as well since it's a lot easier to travel with!
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KPK said:
The benchmark score has came out already, what are your thoughts so far? I currently have the rMBP 15 inch and will keep that but will get this one as well since it's a lot easier to travel with!
Can you post a link to the benchmarks? Are the other models benchmarked as well?
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I read it's comparable in performance to a 2011 MacBook Air. So if anyone who's used Logos on a 2011 MBA, it should be similar.
Nathan Parker
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The CPU is suggested to be comparable high end 2011 macbook air. But the comparison is not accurate, as the new model will have the equivalent of a much better video card. So it will depend on the design of logos, how dependent on the graphics card it is, and if it uses the native rendering engines or tries to render everything itself.
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For what it's worth I have recently discovered that, at least on my 2012 (max spec) macbook pro, Accordance starts up much much quicker, searches, and scrolls much much faster. So I am intending to go ahead and get the new 12 inch macbook and just switch to Accordance where possible.
In fact lately what I have found, now that I have Logos and Accordance is, I find myself starting logos, and while its starting, I get bored, and start accordance, search and find what I need in accordance, then a little later logos finishes starting up, and I just go ahead and quit logos [:) Someone told me this might be because Accordance is designed for macs and Logos is designed for PC's, maybe this is why?
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Due to the processor and RAM, I wouldn't personally recommend one for a power Logos user. The better graphics card (compared with a 2011 Air) is great, but you have to consider most of that will be taxed to power the retina display and OS X. Just my two cents.
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I think you'll find that an SSD will matter as much if not more than CPU power. The new MacBook Pro uses an ultrafast PCIE SSD with write speeds up to 1400 Mbps and read speeds up to 1300 Mbps. That's almost 3 times faster than some of the best SSD's currently available. For reference, my Surface Pro 3's SSD writes at 350 Mbps and reads at 500 Mbps. But even on my much "slower" Surface Pro 3, Logos loads in less than 15 seconds. Searches take 5-10 seconds. Accordance is definitely still snappier, but Logos is running very well on my 3 systems. All have SSD's. Accordance loads in less than 5 seconds on all 3 systems.
I'm going to recommend what others have already suggested in that you should look into getting an SSD on your existing system rather than buying a brand new one. A 256gb SSD is very cheap these days. Usually around $100.
From my experience, these programs are bottle necked by the hard drive more so than by CPU power or rendering speed from the GPU.
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Michael said:
I'm going to recommend what others have already suggested in that you should look into getting an SSD on your existing system rather than buying a brand new one. A 256gb SSD is very cheap these days. Usually around $100.
I 100% agree that upgrading from a traditional drive to an SSD can certainly breathe new life into an older system. However with regards to the topic of this thread, considering the viability of the 12" macbook for using Logos. This device only has SSD as an option, so the traditional vs SSD decision is not a factor.
I am encouraged to hear that someone uses Logos on a "surface" thingy. If it works on a surface, then I expect it would at least work ok on the 12" macbook. [:)]
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Gabe M. said:
Due to the processor and RAM, I wouldn't personally recommend one for a power Logos user. The better graphics card (compared with a 2011 Air) is great, but you have to consider most of that will be taxed to power the retina display and OS X. Just my two cents.
What do you mean by "power Logos user"?
Which processor and RAM would you recommend?
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Logos itself is a power user program. It will use every drop of RAM you have before gobbling hard drive space while it indexes. I've seen it do this countless times. I have 16GB RAM on a MAC mini and i've seen this drop to less than 200MB free during indexing. You want an i Core processor and as much RAM as possible. An SSD is not absolutely essential, but once you've used one, you can understand why you'd want it. I've got one with just 4GB RAM on one laptop and it's great.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
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I've gone ahead and purchased the 1.3Ghz model. Interestingly Accordance actually runs a lot faster, so much so its noticeably more pleasant to use. Im guessing I'll end up transitioning over to using Accordance.
Not sure why there is such a huge difference, I do know that with Accordance you are able to just download only the resources you want to use and search, whereas Logos appears to have filled up my hard drive with piles of things i'll never use, that has to affect search somewhat?
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J R
You can remove any resource "Hide the resource" in Logos also that would make searching less resources also.
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Logos and Accordance are very different programs. I use both daily. In many respects Accordance is in my opinion a much better program and better designed. Logos has a significant number of features that you will not find in Accordance as well as a much larger Library to draw from. If basic Bible searches/original language study are your main goal Accordance in my mind wins hands down every time. If you are hoping to do more extensive study especially in numerous commentaries Logos offers a distinct advantage. That said for me New Interpreter's Bible/Word Biblical Commentary are my primary goto commentaries and are in both platforms. So all in all it just depends what you want. I use Logos more because I have more resources there... But in the Accordance platform they offer several key works that are not in Logos. I do not think you would see a significant speed increase even if you had only a few resources. I have a test account for Logos that Just has faithlife study bible and 3 or 4 free resources I did this to see what a truly bare bones Logos would run like and how effective a study system you could squeeze out of Faithlife to try things out before purchasing. It is not significantly faster over all (yes passage guides are super fast but all in all start up and such are not much different). Now that being said Accordance engine is not free except for the iOS one, so one may not have a true free version other than their trial version that quits after 60 minutes (can be restarted) and has other limitations imposed on the trial version.
-Dan
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I have the base model Macbook. I've been using Logos on it with little or no problems. It's probably slower on the Macbook than it is on my i7 Mac mini with 16 Gb, but honestly I can't tell. If there's a difference, I've not noticed it.
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Nicholas Knisely said:
I have the base model Macbook. I've been using Logos on it with little or no problems. It's probably slower on the Macbook than it is on my i7 Mac mini with 16 Gb, but honestly I can't tell. If there's a difference, I've not noticed it.
Thanks for your post. I was looking to replace my MacBook Pro 15-inch RETINA (Mid 2014) 2.5GHz i7 16GB 512GB, because my wife did not like how heavy it was. We have had the MacBook Pro 13-inch and a MacBook Air 13-inch before. Logos is a pretty demanding app, but I knew that the SSD and the 8GB of RAM would help. I am not the typical user, so I had my concerns about performance. Your post really helped me. [:)]
After much study and prayer, I settled on the MacBook Retina 12-inch 1.2 GHz with 512GB SSD. Having spent some time with it now, I can say it is more than enough to handle my Logos Bible Software Gold Library. I have to agree with you that it is not slow by any stretch of the imagination.
For additional comparison my desktop at the church is a 27-inch MacBook with 3.4 GHz Intel Core i7, 16GB of RAM and 3TB Fusion Drive. So between the MacBook Pro 15-inch and my iMac, I have a good baseline comparison and can testify that this new MacBook 12-inch is more than capable of running Logos. Before some critic out there has a mini-stroke, I am not saying that I would do everything on this that I do on my iMac. That is not really the question. The question is, can it run Logos well with all the other apps that end up running at the same time? For that, it is perfect.
Note: My personal preference is to use the "more space" display option, which is a per user setting. Everyone else in my family (wife and 2 kids) use it at default resolution. We all love it. It is light, it is fun to use. By the way, I love the keyboard.
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I've picked up the 1.3 Ghz MacBook. I've been so pleased with it that I'm selling my i7 MBP. The portability factor outweighs anything else for me. The only time I've really noticed slowdown has been with rendering edited video. It takes a bit longer, but not a big deal.
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It will be interesting to see how Apple pushes the design tech into the rest of the line beyond the force click and the single cable. They could have a whole lot more people happy if they simply added Retina to the Macbook Air.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
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mab said:
It will be interesting to see how Apple pushes the design tech into the rest of the line beyond the force click and the single cable. They could have a whole lot more people happy if they simply added Retina to the Macbook Air.
I predict that the new MacBook line will eventually replace the MacBook Air line. The new 12" MacBook is already lighter and thinner than the 11.6 MacBook Air. It's just that right now, there wasn't enough support for USB-C (although there's more every day) to allow Apple to get away with eliminating the current Airs. It wouldn't surprise me if the current MacBook was originally designated an Air in the planning stages.
I'm extremely pleased by the performance of my MacBook--enough to give up my MacBook Pro. I have no doubt the Pro line will continue alongside the MacBook line.
It would have been helpful to have at least one additional USB-C port on the MacBook--for instance you can't charge the MacBook and have even one peripheral connected at the same time without an adapter of some kind. They're looking toward a future where you plug in peripherals less and less, but we're not there yet.
Just today I received in the mail a hybrid USB thumb drive. On one end, you have a traditional USB connection, and on the other end it has USB-C. You can easily use it on the MacBook or any other device.
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So this computer has been out a while. A few of you are using it. What is the latest thoughts about Logos 6 on the 12 inch Retina Macbook?
Anyone not happy with it? Can any of you let clock out how long certain actions take in Logos 6?
I want a very portable Mac that can be my primary study computer. So just want to make sure I am getting a good machine. I have a Bronze level version of Logos 6 with added resources. I do sermon prep work out of it. I also will update slides in Proclaim from it.
What is your advice?
Thank you so much!!!
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I'm still happy with my 12" MacBook with my Logos 6 Gold.
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I've been using the 1.3 Ghz 2015 12" MacBook for about 6 months now. The portability of it is its chief selling point in my opinion. It's light and easy to carry--much more so that my previous 2012 15" MacBook Pro.
The new trackpad is great--definitely an improvement on the older ones that physically pressed down. You'll swear this one presses down even though it actually doesn't.
USB-C? I have no problems with that. It's a good step forward.
As for processing power, for most things, I haven't had an issue--including Bible software. Launch times are delayed a bit more than they were on my MacBook Pro, but this is not a huge deal. I'm regularly running a dozen or more programs at a time with no perceivable draw on the system. I only really notice an issue when it comes to video. Believe it or not, I edit video on this machine once a week or so. Rendering time takes longer, but not to an extreme. Sometimes when editing video, I notice a bit of a drag on the processor. This is also the case when using Skype. Video has the potential to sometime slow down the system. Basically, I try not to have too much else running in the background when I do anything related to video.
My biggest complaint is with the keyboard. Initially, I was very pleased with it. The shorter keystrokes truly can make for faster typing. However, I noticed early on that I seemed to miss letters every now and then when I typed. I wasn't certain it was the keyboard or not at first--I mean you can have a typo now and then with any keyboard. However, even typing this message, I have had to go back and add in an occasional letter. It's not that there's a buffering issue; rather, the keys require more force, and it's easy to hit a key and simply not press it hard enough.
The keyboard is also a bit noisier, but I try not to hit the keys as hard, which may contribute to skipping letters mentioned above.
Another issue with the keyboard: I noticed recently that the keys are starting to wear. This did not happen with any of my previous Macs, so I don't think it's me.
Again, portability is the main drawing point for the MacBook. However, if you don't have to buy today, I'd recommend waiting for 2016's rev. My work now requires me to do a lot more video editing than when I first bought the MacBook. Although the MacBook is okay for light video editing, I think if I were buying today, I'd go with the 13" MacBook Pro. But really, I would recommend waiting until the next rev of all of them before you decide.
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There's something very compelling about a lightweight laptop. I have a Sandy Bridge i3/SSD HP Folio with 4GB RAM. I was never totally happy with it until Logos 6 and Win 10 came along. As much as I would love a "do over" into having a Mac laptop to go with my main Mac mini, I'm now very happy with it and I'd probably buy another Win machine over a Mac if I needed to replace it.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
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Can John or R. Mansfield comment on the heat with your new Macbooks? When doing something intensive, does it heat up? If it does, where do you feel the heat?
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I've had no real heat issues, and I've pushed it pretty hard a number of times. It gets warm, but not hot.
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That's a good question. It does NOT get hot like a lot of notebooks/MacBooks. It does get warm from time to time.
From my experience, I would say that heat is not an issue with this MacBook.
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Last month i got my Wife the new MacBook, before i had questions about the performance. But i have been very surprised.
If I had checked into it more when i got my 2015 15" MacBook Pro, I may have gotten the 12" MacBook instead.
But i am happy to have the larger screen.
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I was just looking at the 2015 12" MBs today. If I had read your post, I might have bought one. I keep waffling back and forth on this. I'm using a 2.2 GHz Intel Core i7 MBP, 15 in, Late 2011. I put an SSD in it and upgraded to 16 GB 1333 MHz DDR3 RAM. It gets very hot when I'm working on it. I'm not sure about the screen size either. I just go back and forth. I really would love that small size.
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Yea its certainly a compromise, its just a matter of working out the cost/benifits. For me I do have to carry this thing around every day quite some distance, so the smaller screen size, slower CPU is for me, worth it, to have a computer that is half the weight.
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Personally, if you use Logos very much, I cannot imagine doing so on a screen that size. I got a new MacBook Pro just before Christmas and I paid more to get the 15" screen for this reason. If money is a deciding factor and you are primarily buying the machine to use Logos more than anything else, I would say that you could get a PC laptop that would have much larger screen and run Logos great.
On another note, I agree completely about SSD and Logos. That really boosts performance. It is much faster on my new MacBook Pro than ever before on my old MacBook Pro or even a PC in the past. Finally, I really don't see a discernable difference between Logos on Mac and PC any longer. That's great!
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