Paying for New Logos Features by Community Pricing

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This post has 16 Replies | 1 Follower

Posts 247
BriM | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Mar 10 2015 11:33 PM

I noticed that Logos have a new CP offer to help them fund a Windows Universal Bible App https://www.logos.com/product/50060/windows-universal-bible-app  Whilst I'm not interested in that, it did set me thinking that this would be an interesting way to test support for things that Faithlife might be reluctant to devote sufficient resources to otherwise.

For example, I'd be happy to bid a few tens of dollars on things such as the following:

a) A quantified improvement in performance (we will deliver X% performance improvement in the areas of A, B, C);

b) A quantified improvement in stability (we will spend X additional days in stability improvements above our normal maintenance budget);

c) Making the Android or iPad App behave more comparably to the full fat Logos (multiple linked resources, easy jumping between resources, quickly look up Greek or Hebrew meanings, etc.)

I realise that one could argue that Faithlife should do all these things anyway, but they have to get funded somehow and it seems that this is a clear way of directing them as to what we want, rather than what they think we want.

This can only work if there is enough community interest to support the improvements via CP bids. Does anyone else think this is a good idea? What improvements would you like the chance to bid on?

Posts 2589
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 11 2015 2:41 AM

I think it's a good idea. However initial funders may quickly find out that the final implementation will be routinely available to subsequent buyers for much cheaper.

Posts 2796
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 11 2015 3:47 AM

Lee:

I think it's a good idea. However initial funders may quickly find out that the final implementation will be routinely available to subsequent buyers for much cheaper.

They would know that it will be free to all at the time they bid.  

Posts 13417
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 11 2015 4:18 AM

It's an interesting idea. I'd probably bid for features I would use. It would be interesting to see if (a) people got up-in-arms because we don't normally pay for Logos software upgrades, and (b) whether people would pay, or hope others would pay and they benefit.

Posts 85
Anthony Keating | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 11 2015 5:10 AM

Many people have written on the forums about the lack of an app for Microsoft phones, tablets etc. I think it is a great thing for Faithlife to be doing and as there will not be the take up that there is for Android, Apple etc I don't mind paying for some of the development cost.

Posts 9096
LogosEmployee

BriM:

a) A quantified improvement in performance (we will deliver X% performance improvement in the areas of A, B, C);

b) A quantified improvement in stability (we will spend X additional days in stability improvements above our normal maintenance budget);

The best way to get performance and stability problems addressed is not to bid on a CP project, but to provide concrete examples. (This is much easier for us to address, and it also directs our attention to the specific problems that are important to you.)

For each problem, please start a new forum thread with a clear subject line.

For a performance problem, including a screencast is very helpful, as is taking a sample (Mac: https://www.logos.com/support/logos6/mac/report-problem, Windows: https://www.logos.com/support/logos6/windows/report-performance).

For a crash, submit log files, specific steps to reproduce, and (if not obvious) the expected behaviour. (More details for Mac: https://www.logos.com/support/logos6/mac/report-problem and Windows: https://www.logos.com/support/logos6/windows/report-problem). 

Posts 24767
Forum MVP
Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 11 2015 10:55 AM

It's worth noting - as per the product page - that even though people are asked to bid it isn't actually going to cost them anything. Although this who bid will get it first and get a gift.

It looks as though Faithlife are doing this as a way of gauging real interest 

Posts 29472
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 11 2015 11:12 AM

Graham Criddle:
It looks as though Faithlife are doing this as a way of gauging real interest 

Yeah. There is always the contingent which says, "I will pay for that!" This is a way to see if there is any REAL interest. 

So to clarify: Win Mobile users who think there are millions of users dying to have an app, go bid $5. Once those millions of users start pushing up the line at $5 we can ask that there be added lower price points. For my windows friends, I hope that happens. Conversely, if there is one REALLY wealthy "angel partner" out there who wants this, call up FL and offer $X to the project.

macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 247
BriM | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 11 2015 11:19 AM

Graham Criddle:
It's worth noting - as per the product page - that even though people are asked to bid it isn't actually going to cost them anything. Although this who bid will get it first and get a gift.

That isn't the way I read it, although you make me realise it isn't totally clear. What I understood was that people could bid like a normal CP and those who made a winning bid would pay that bid as normal when the resource (Windows Universal App) is released. The App itself would have no charge to get it through the Windows App store, so you're effectively bidding a non-zero bid on an item with a list price of zero. That is how you're helping the product to get released. In recognition of this monetary support (you paying for what will eventually be free), Faithlife will give you a gift when the App is released.

Posts 592
Brent Hoefling | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 11 2015 11:22 AM

Graham Criddle:

It's worth noting - as per the product page - that even though people are asked to bid it isn't actually going to cost them anything. Although this who bid will get it first and get a gift.

It looks as though Faithlife are doing this as a way of gauging real interest 

Interesting, because I read it as if we are actually going to pay for the bid - though the app will be free when released. and as you mention, some kind of free gift and having it first are a perk.  but again, and maybe I am wrong, but I read it kind of like a crowd-funding - we will be charged the bid amount (assuming to help with development costs).  that's how I read it any-hoots.  and yes, I would pay to assist in initial development overheads, even though the released app would be offered free.

Posts 29472
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 11 2015 11:24 AM

BriM:
That isn't the way I read it, although you make me realise it isn't totally clear. What I understood was that people could bid like a normal CP and those who made a winning bid would pay that bid as normal when the resource (Windows Universal App) is released. The App itself would have no charge to get it through the Windows App store, so you're effectively bidding a non-zero bid on an item with a list price of zero. That is how you're helping the product to get released. In recognition of this monetary support (you paying for what will eventually be free), Faithlife will give you a gift when the App is released.

Correct. This is a crowd funding project. People are contributing money rather than purchasing something.

macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 11 2015 11:54 AM

Bradley, I can understand your (plural) dilemma.  User frustrations can't be solved by expressing frustration. 

However.  Just in the last few days (and earlier, very more pronounced now), Logos6 is really dragging.  I use the same layout as in Logos4 and Logos5 (with some incremental added resources).  It's big ... very likely never the intension of the designers, but that's true of many applications.  Users go crazy with tool-time power. And no changes in Windows7 (same system update; same other applications running ... I'm very boring).

Now, I could take a picture.  I could make a thread.  I could even take a video of a picture.  Plus a thread with a video of a picture (just being cute).  But it wouldn't do anything, since we're talking almost systemic-level, that even if you took a veritable trip to the new age (Sedona), you'd say 'show me' and it wouldn't impress you.

My guess is you (plural) design for a target performance with a target world of use.  And that's fine.  But I'll still maintain, Logos5 (32) was a success performance-wise after (probably) lots of tinkering.  Logos6 is still in Logos4-land.  The 64-world didn't work for Logos (yet).

But I (and we) appreciate your desire to respond to frustrations.  Now on the mobile app, different story.  

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 1084
JohnB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 11 2015 11:55 AM

I would have thought that the money would be taken when development started as otherwise what is to stop people stopping the payment just before 'shipment' as they will get the result anyway, unlike with books.

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 11 2015 12:01 PM

JohnB, your hypothesis likely won't work; then they'd have to deliver the product (having taking the money).  That would involve a definite promise (legally binding sort of).  And after delivery, what if it's really basic?  The whole thing is fraught with questions.  I think the dating-game proposal was much easier.  

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 9096
LogosEmployee

Graham Criddle:
It's worth noting - as per the product page - that even though people are asked to bid it isn't actually going to cost them anything.

If you place a bid, you will be charged money (like a regular CP title). (Assuming it goes into production, of course.)

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Forum MVP
Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 11 2015 4:45 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Graham Criddle:
It's worth noting - as per the product page - that even though people are asked to bid it isn't actually going to cost them anything.

If you place a bid, you will be charged money (like a regular CP title).

Thanls for that.

Apologies, I misunderstood what the product page said

Posts 9096
LogosEmployee

Graham Criddle:
Apologies, I misunderstood what the product page said

I can see how it could be confusing, so I've asked the Marketing department to try to clarify it.

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