Logos 4 on a special netbook

I had a nice little asus netbook with 2gigs of ram, and it was running Logos 4 very slowly, until I left it on the top of my car and drove off. Of course when I hit about 50 miles per hour it blew off and landed in the road and another car ran over it!!! Not a pretty sight at all.

I am looking for a replacement and think I might have found it, I am wondering if anyone has tried Logos 4 on this little 12 in asus. Here it is...

ASUS Eee PC 1201N-PU17-SL Silver Intel Atom N330(1.60GHz) 12.1" WXGA 2GB Memory 250GB HDD NetBook - Retail

New Arrival, Windows 7 Home Premium & NVIDIA ION graphics

This is a dual core hyper-threaded thing that can handle 4 gigs of memory. Has anyone tried this?

It is said to be the first Netbook can do some gaming on without wasting your time.

In Chirst,

Jim

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Jim VanSchoonhoven

I am really hoping that some of you computer guys can give me some help on this question concerning this netbook, it looks to me like this should run Logos 4 since the lesser one almost ran it well enough, but I would hate to spend 500.00 and have a very slow Logos 4 program, do any of you computer geeks have any ideas on this???

Alain Maashe

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/81677#Comment_81677

Jim,

It will be faster than your average netbook because of the dual core processor, the larger amount of ram and the improved graphics but it will still be slower than most notebooks because of the more energy efficient but slower atom processor (it will be a faster netbook but still a netbook with the limitations inherent to netbooks).

It will come down to what is more important to you: battery life and portability or power and faster searches.

Alain

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/81677#Comment_81677

Jim,

Sorry about the lack of response. I don't own a Netbook but at least one user has reported that L4 runs reasonably well on a standard 1.6 GHz processor. The issue is time taken to index (as well as download) if this is your ONLY computer that will be running L4. If you have a faster computer that you can readily update and index then you can WITH CAUTION update your Netbook using Method 1 or Method 2 at http://wiki.logos.com/Quick_Installation_onto_multiple_computers

I recommend Method 3 if you can afford the time to index.

DominicM

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/81677#Comment_81677

Jim, its all down to the graphics, if its like my Samsung n110, the graphics wont do you any favors, that said, I run my L4 more on my netbook than my main PC, and it is more than adequate.

$500 sounds a MEGA [:O] (over) [:(] price - you will get a proper laptop with half decent graphics for that money, I would definitely look around.. you can find a better deal

Jim VanSchoonhoven

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/81686#Comment_81686

I have several other computers that are working fine for indexing Logos 4 plus the other netbook that I had was slow, but did okay on indexing, and it was only a single core 1600 with 2gig.

In fact the old netbook was alot like the one DominicM mentions before it blew off the roof of my car at 50 mph and got ran over by another car, it also had a slower graphic card, this is not the same level of netbook as those.

I have been told, that the dual core hyper-thread acts more like a quad core, but I have no idea if that is true. Plus depending on where you look this netbook can be upgraded to either 4 or 8 gigs of ram.

I use these small computers to help get people that are afraid of computers to get used to handling a computer, it works very well, people that will not take a normal size computer from you, will take a small 10-or 12 in size from you and think it is cute. I teach others how to use many different kinds of bible software. So size does matter! If anyone has either a 10 or 12 inch laptop that runs Logos 4 well please let me know about it!

In Christ,

Jim

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/81725#Comment_81725

I have been told, that the dual core hyper-thread acts more like a quad core, but I have no idea if that is true. Plus depending on where you look this netbook can be upgraded to either 4 or 8 gigs of ram.

A desktop quadcore with hyper-threading acts like 8 CPU's! So it's possible that the N330 will act like 4 CPU's.

Eric Ruhnow

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/81769#Comment_81769

I run L4 on an ASRock ION based nettop (dual core N330 and nVidia 9400 integrated) with 4GB and Win 7 x64. The indexing is not the problem with this system, it is the rendering. L4 does its best to bring this system to its knees.

For a basic reader system, an ION based computer is OK, but anything beyond that tends to cause it to run VERY slowly.

The problem is the fact that the Intel Atom processor is a linear processor, not an asynchronous processor like most other modern processors (imagine the N330 as four 1.6GHz Pentiums (as in the original Ps). The raw power is kinda there (1.6GHz is a bit of a limitation), but you have to wait for the processors to be fed data in a linear fashion (full series of instructions at a time), not data fed as required (async). The ION has a limitation on the amount in instructions it can handle at once before it chokes. L4 sends a LOT of instructions for the rendering all at once (at least that is what appears to happen) and the ION starts to choke and cause L4 to run like molasses in January, in Alaska.

Jim VanSchoonhoven

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/81775#Comment_81775

Eric I am not sure I understand what you are saying, but is it the graphics card that is the problem?

In Christ,

Jim

Eric Ruhnow

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/81789#Comment_81789

Jim,

The problem is the CPU, not the graphics. The nVidia 9400 chip that the Atom processor is coupled with to make the ION has more than enough horses to run L4 (most modern graphics intensive games run on the 9400 without a problem. I know for a fact that Valve's "Source" engine and the UT3 engine run fine on this nettop - I am a recovering game addict).

The bottleneck for L4 seems to be the amount of information that is "thrown" at the CPU for the rendering. L4 does not take advantage of the CUDA capabilities of the 9400 chip to offload some of the CPU based rendering to the GPU. Plus there is a lot of HD activity when there is a change on the screen.

The N330 Atom processor, while it is dual-core and has Hyper-threading capabilities, does not multi-task well. L4 requires a lot of multi-tasking to run as more than just a Bible reader.

The way the Atom processor handles data is much different than other processors from Intel or AMD. Other processors can handle instructions by "chopping" them in to smaller, bite-sized chunks and easily split these chunks between cores/threads. The Atom processor cannot split the instructions like this and each core/thread must handle a full instruction set before it starts another one.

Think of it this way, the Atom processor cannot sing well in rounds (if you don't follow, think of how a group sings "Row, Row, Row Your Boat", layering the verse at different points).

The ION can run L4, but more than a couple of windows open in L4 will bring scrolling to a crawl (about 2-3 second lag). There have been improvements as Logos has been releasing updates to L4, so I'm sure in time, the L4 code will reach a level of optimization that will run well on an ION based system. But until then, I really can only use the ION installation as just a plain Bible reader, or for a static display for teaching.

Jim VanSchoonhoven

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/81797#Comment_81797

Eric, thanks for the information, do you have any ideas on a small laptop that you think would be able to handle Logos 4???

In Christ,

Jim

Jacob Hantla

That computer is very close in Specs to what I run Logos4 on daily. It is not near as fast as my desktop, but it runs Logos4 well, especially if you minimize use of the autogenerating reports (like Bible explorer that re-run themselves every time you scroll).

It runs searches, passage guides, exegetical guides without problem.

Like I said I use it daily and recommended a similar computer for a friend who was just getting into Logos but didn't want to be tied to a desktop or lug around a huge computer.

Greg Gray

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/81851#Comment_81851

I would recommend the Acer AS1410. It is small enough to be very portable (the size is the same as a 8x11 piece of paper), substantially faster than an atom based netbook (about 2-3 times faster with the base U3500 CPU). The graphics card is adequate for rendering - Not great but miles ahead of a netbook (I have a netbook as well so I have directly compared them). Scrolling is smooth no mater how many tabs I have open - the only place that a lag is distracting is when using the information tool.

I have a new quad core computer that runs L4 really great and I have a netbook that is usable, but barely. The AS1410 comes right in the middle of them. If you were to get one with the SU2300 that would be your best price vs. performance deal - A dual core with a very reasonable price tag.

Eric Ruhnow

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/81873#Comment_81873

Jim,

Unfortunately, I'm not too up to date with laptops. I will say that I run L4 without a problem on an almost 2 year old ACER 5520 without any problems. Here are the specs for you:

	AMD Turion™ 64 X2 Dual-Core Mobile Technology TL-58 (1.9GHz)
	NVIDIA nForce® 610M Chipset
	4GB DDR2 667 SDRAM
	160GB hard disk drive
	Integrated NVIDIA® GeForce® 7000M graphics, Microsoft® DirectX® 9.0 and PCI Express® support Running Windows 7 x64 Home Premium The 7000m graphics (2+ generations behind what is available now) is set to use 256MB of the system memory. I just upgraded to 4GB over the original 2GB for the memory and switched from Vista Home Premium x32 to Win 7 x64 and got a very noticable boost in performance. My recommendation would be to look for a system running @ minimum 2GHz dual-core, 4GB of RAM and Win 7 x64. You probably will want to stay away from Intel integrated graphics and go with ATI/AMD or nVidia.

Sorry I really cannot be more help than this.

Jim VanSchoonhoven

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/82034#Comment_82034

Thanks guys, this is the kind of information I need, is there any more suggestions about great deals on small computers that will run Logos 4???

In Christ,

Jim

BillS

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/82172#Comment_82172

Hi Jim,

Not sure what you mean by small computers...

However, most of the Windows folks buying high performance machines are looking at a PC based the i7 chip. Sales circulars this weekend for local shopping offered several.

You might also search the forums, as there are several threads on this general topic (minimum / optimum configuration for L4 performance, etc.)

Blessings!

Jim VanSchoonhoven

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/82242#Comment_82242

I mean 12 inch size or less! I don't believe I have seen that chip in any of the 12 inch and under computers yet, but if you know of one let me know.

In Christ,

Jim

Daniel Lee

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/81873#Comment_81873

I would recommend the Acer AS1410. It is small enough to be very portable (the size is the same as a 8x11 piece of paper), substantially faster than an atom based netbook (about 2-3 times faster with the base U3500 CPU). The graphics card is adequate for rendering - Not great but miles ahead of a netbook (I have a netbook as well so I have directly compared them). Scrolling is smooth no mater how many tabs I have open - the only place that a lag is distracting is when using the information tool.

I have a new quad core computer that runs L4 really great and I have a netbook that is usable, but barely. The AS1410 comes right in the middle of them. If you were to get one with the SU2300 that would be your best price vs. performance deal - A dual core with a very reasonable price tag.

I would second this. I have the AS1410 with SU3500 (single core 1.4GHz processor) that came out last fall. I really like Logos 4 on it, runs well. Obviously indexing will take much longer vs. a desktop, but I picked mine up for a good bit under $400, and with various discounts/sales/Bing cashback promotions, you can probably get a good price on one of these. Other companies make similar products (ie Asus and Toshiba) but their versions are $100+ more than the Acer AS1410.

Comparison to netbook: Netbooks win (usually) on price, battery life (my Asus netbook got 6+ hours), and portability. Ultralight notebooks (like AS1410) win on processing speed, expansion, and screen resolution (1366x768 vs. 1024x600 on my netbook - I know you can get high-res netbook screens, but that makes it even more sluggish usually). Also Windows 7 on netbooks is often Starter version (which has some limitations).

Note on processing speed: I did an MP3 encoding test. On my netbook, it took about 15 minutes. On my AS1410, it took about 6 minutes. So a significant jump in performance.

Bill Anderson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/82172#Comment_82172

Thanks guys, this is the kind of information I need, is there any more suggestions about great deals on small computers that will run Logos 4???

In Christ,

Jim

I have the Gateway EC1430u. The specs are:

CPU: 1.3-GHz Intel Pentium SU4100 (dual core)

Operating System: Windows 7 Home Premium (64-bit)

RAM/Expandable to: 3GB/4GB

Hard Drive Size/Speed: 320GB/5,400 rpm

Optical Drive: None

Display Size/Resolution: 11.6 inches/1366 x 768

Now, I must admit that I cheated and added an OCZ Vertez 120GB SSD to this laptop and it really sings. I also upgraded the RAM to a full 4GB. For me the key was that it runs Windows 7 64-bit and has a full 4 GB RAM. It has standard Intel graphics, which isn't great, but because I bumped up the RAM there is more memory available to the integrated graphics chip. The laptop is a fingerprint magnet but it runs really cool and gets 7+ hours of battery life from the 6-cell battery. Also, the 6-cell battery doesn't protrude from the back of the laptop; it is flush with the edges so it looks great. It runs L4 acceptably.

Here's a review from Laptop Magazine: http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptop/gateway-ec-1430u.aspx

Ward Walker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/82466#Comment_82466

Thank you--this information has been helpful!

Ken Cruzado

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/85234#Comment_85234

I agree. This is a very helpful thread. Thanks!