[resolved] Dear Lexham Press ... in lieu of the ask the author feature

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Apr 7 2015 12:57 AM

Copied from a resource:

 

 

When the Bible Is Complicated: Answers to Perplexing Questions

Copyright 2014 Lexham Press

Adapted with permission from content originally published in Bible Study Magazine.

Lexham Press, 1313 Commercial St., Bellingham, WA 98225

LexhamPress.com

All rights reserved. You may use brief quotations from this resource in presentations, articles, and books. For all other uses, please write Lexham Press for permission. Email us at

permissions@lexhampress.com.

Scripture quotations marked (asv) are from the American Standard Version. Public domain.

Scripture quotations marked (darby) are from the Darby Translation. Public domain.

Scripture quotations marked (esv) are from The Holy Bible, English Standard Version® (ESV®), copyright 2001 by Crossway, a publishing ministry of Good News Publishers. Used by permission. All rights reserved.

Scripture quotations marked (gw) are from the GOD’S WORD Translation. GOD’S WORD is a copyrighted work of God’s Word to the Nations Bible Society. Quotations are used by permission. Copyright 1995 by God’s Word to the Nations Bible Society. All rights reserved.

Scripture quotations marked (gnt) are from the Good News Translation in Today’s English Version—Second Edition Copyright © 1992 by American Bible Society. Used by Permission.

Scripture quotations marked (hcsb) are from the Holman Christian Standard Bible®, Copyright © 1999, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2009 by Holman Bible Publishers. Used by permission. Holman Christian Standard Bible®, Holman CSB®, and HCSB® are federally registered trademarks of Holman Bible Publishers.

Scripture quotations marked (kjv) are from the King James Version. Public domain.

Unless otherwise noted, Scripture quotations are from the Lexham English Bible (leb), copyright 2013 by Lexham Press. Lexham is a registered trademark of Faithlife Corporation.

Scripture quotations marked (Message) are from THE MESSAGE. Copyright © by Eugene H. Peterson 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 2000, 2001, 2002. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers, Inc.

Scripture quotations marked (nasb) are from the New American Standard Bible ®, Copyright 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation. Used by permission.

Scripture quotations marked (ncv) are from the New Century Version®. Copyright © 2005 by Thomas Nelson. Used by permission. All rights reserved.

Scripture quotations marked (net) are from the NET Bible ® copyright 1996–2006 by Biblical Studies Press, L.L.C. All rights reserved.

Scripture quotations marked (nirv) are from the Holy Bible, New International Reader’s Version®, NIrV® Copyright © 1995, 1996, 1998 by Biblica, Inc.™ Used by permission of Zondervan. All rights reserved worldwide.

www.zondervan.com The "NIrV" and "New International Reader’s Version" are trademarks registered in the United States Patent and Trademark Office by Biblica, Inc.™

Scripture quotations marked (niv) are from the Holy Bible, NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION®. Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by Biblica, Inc. All rights reserved worldwide. Used by permission. NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION® and NIV® are registered trademarks of Biblica, Inc. Use of either trademark for the offering of goods or services requires the prior written consent of Biblica US, Inc.

Scripture quotations marked (nkjv) are from the New King James Version. Copyright 1982 by Thomas Nelson. Used by permission. All rights reserved.

Scripture quotations marked (nlt) are from the Holy Bible, New Living Translation, copyright © 1996, 2004, 2007, 2013 by Tyndale House Foundation. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers, Inc., Carol Stream, Illinois 60188. All rights reserved.

Scripture quotations marked (nrsv) are from the New Revised Standard Version Bible, copyright © 1989, National Council of the Churches of Christ in the United States of America. Used by permission. All rights reserved.

Scripture quotations marked (rsv) are from the Revised Standard Version of the Bible, copyright 1952 [2nd edition, 1971] by the Division of Christian Education of the National Council of the Churches of Christ in the United States of America. Used by permission. All rights reserved.

Scripture quotations marked (tniv) are from the HOLY BIBLE, TODAY’S NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION®. Copyright © 2001, 2005 by Biblica®. All rights reserved worldwide. Used by permission. "TNIV" and "Today’s New International Version" are registered trademarks of Biblica®. Use of either trademark requires the prior written consent of Biblica US, Inc.

Scripture quotations marked (ylt) are from Robert Young’s Literal Translation. Public domain.

Academic Editor: Michael S. Heiser

Assistant Editors: David Bomar, Rebecca Brant, Lynnea Fraser, Jake Mailhot, Abigail Stocker, Joel Wilcox

======================================================

Question: As you can plainly see, Lexham Press feels the need to tell me quite explicitly what translation it used. Why doesn't Faithlife, owner of Lexham Press, feel any need to let me read the specified translation on mouse over? Why does Faithlife maintain the fantasy that I want to see the passage in only in the translation I've given as my highest priority Bible?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 6:51 AM

This is an issue I am torn on. Perhaps, a hotkey pressed while mousing over should enable the "original" text, or so to speak.  Not sure if that made any sense.

I like always having the ESV pop up for me standard, but I have found situations where I would like what you are requesting.  Example: When a partial quote of the KJV is given with a reference and I mouse over it, obviously I would want to see the rest of the KJV rendering and not the ESV. Well ok, maybe that isn't so obvious but it should be! Wink

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 7 2015 1:15 PM

I agree that the behavior I want should supplement not replace the current behavior.

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 12:03 AM

MJ. Smith:

I agree that the behavior I want should supplement not replace the current behavior.

I don't - as a default I would like to see the 'actual' text quoted. I would agree that a press of the alt key might be useful, on occasion, to revert to the 'top bible' but I am heavily in favour of seeing the quote quoted.

tootle pip

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 2:23 AM

Mike Binks:

MJ. Smith:

I agree that the behavior I want should supplement not replace the current behavior.

I don't - as a default I would like to see the 'actual' text quoted. I would agree that a press of the alt key might be useful, on occasion, to revert to the 'top bible' but I am heavily in favour of seeing the quote quoted.

I started at your position and would love to return to it but in 3+ years I've failed to get any traction with others thinking that ought to see what the author intended.

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 7:05 AM

MJ. Smith:

Mike Binks:

MJ. Smith:

I agree that the behavior I want should supplement not replace the current behavior.

I don't - as a default I would like to see the 'actual' text quoted. I would agree that a press of the alt key might be useful, on occasion, to revert to the 'top bible' but I am heavily in favour of seeing the quote quoted.

I started at your position and would love to return to it but in 3+ years I've failed to get any traction with others thinking that ought to see what the author intended.

Agh but...

In due course the others will come to see the right way!

In the meantime we have to stand firm.

As a friend of mine used to ask...

'Are you a man or a mouse?' 'Come on! – Squeak up'!

tootle pip

Mike

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 8:49 AM

Mike Binks:

MJ. Smith:

Mike Binks:

MJ. Smith:

I agree that the behavior I want should supplement not replace the current behavior.

I don't - as a default I would like to see the 'actual' text quoted. I would agree that a press of the alt key might be useful, on occasion, to revert to the 'top bible' but I am heavily in favour of seeing the quote quoted.

I started at your position and would love to return to it but in 3+ years I've failed to get any traction with others thinking that ought to see what the author intended.

Agh but...

In due course the others will come to see the right way!

In the meantime we have to stand firm.

As a friend of mine used to ask...

'Are you a man or a mouse?' 'Come on! – Squeak up'!

Squeak Squeak!!!!!! Me too!

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 10:14 AM

Mike Binks:

As a friend of mine used to ask...

'Are you a man or a mouse?'

Someone else asked himself: "Am I a man or a muppet?" I don't think that is the same thing.

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Eli Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 11:31 AM

The current behavior has been in place for a very long time, and is "by design" (that is, "we like it that way"). We could add a meta key, but even then it wouldn't work most of the time: In order to get the functionality that you want, we'd need to go back (in time) and add metadata to all the Bible hyperlinks in the system to indicate which version the hyperlink should target -- some of which we don't publish yet. It's very unlikely that will happen.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 8 2015 1:04 PM

Eli Evans:

The current behavior has been in place for a very long time, and is "by design" (that is, "we like it that way").

I think that's another way of saying we haven't changed since Logos 1.0Wink I'm aware that it is a very major change ... so was Y2K ... but sometimes you either have to bite the bullet or risk loosing your clientele to that new upstart who can provide it now. There are even a number of ways to simulate the behavior that would give you an edge up.

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David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 9 2015 10:08 AM

Eli Evans:

The current behavior has been in place for a very long time, and is "by design" (that is, "we like it that way"). We could add a meta key, but even then it wouldn't work most of the time: In order to get the functionality that you want, we'd need to go back (in time) and add metadata to all the Bible hyperlinks in the system to indicate which version the hyperlink should target -- some of which we don't publish yet. It's very unlikely that will happen.

I would think that for getting a way to do this with references (most have the Bible version listed afterwards) this should be a relatively easy implementation since reftagger already has that capability.  I am primarily interested in this for Bibles, not necessarily other quotes.  Obviously Bibles you don't have in production wouldn't be available.

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Eli Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 15 2015 10:00 AM

David Taylor Jr:
I would think that for getting a way to do this with references (most have the Bible version listed afterwards) this should be a relatively easy implementation since reftagger already has that capability.

Yep. Logos has the capability to target a specific Bible translation just like Reftagger does, and Reftagger, like Logos, also requires a person to specify that resource target when the hyperlink is being made. Technologically, it's not difficult. The difficulty is two-fold: (1) there are millions upon millions of Bible references in our 45K+ resources and only a very very few of them are (or should be) targeted to specific versions, but it takes a manual human decision to know which ones; (2) it's intentional.

Seriously, this is one of our distinctives, and it's of the BEST things about Logos Bible Software and we're not about to make a wholesale sweeping change to it.

Technically speaking, the more difficult thing (by far) is to have a generic reference that can open in ANY book that supports that referencing scheme. This requires you to have an abstract referencing scheme (which we call a "data type") and then to have a code controller that can "resolve" those generic references against a given specific portion of a resource on disk (we call this "keylinking"). This is HARD, and we do it well. 

Yes, I know that sometimes the resources refer specifically to a word in the NIV, or to a verse in the LXX. That's why we also give the ability to right-click and keylink to ANY available resource that also supports this reference as a location (we call that "parallel resources"). I know this is more clicks, and sometimes you run into a book where you have to do this more clicks a lot. But it's still exactly what many users want: Just because a commentator says "the word GLORP is used in the LXX" doesn't mean that I necessarily want it to open in the LXX, which is (95% of the time) in a language I can't read -- and which edition of the LXX?

If you're working with a book that consistently references, say, the LXX, it's easy to create a local override for hyperlink targeting: Open the LXX. Go to the panel menu. Set "Send hyperlinks here." You now have the behavior that you want, but it's FLEXIBLE and doesn't force others who don't want that behavior into a straitjacket.

That said, we do sometimes add specific resource targets to references, for example, in resources that would otherwise make no sense without linking to a specific translation (no specific example springs to mind, sorry). But once we choose to specify a resource, we thereby OVERRULE the user's local preference. If you want to make suggestions about specific resources that really SHOULD be put into a straitjacket and force all the links to go to one resource, then by all means suggest that as an improvement to that resource. If we err, it's usually on the side of flexibility.

Love y'all muchly. I just disagree on this one. Smile

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 15 2015 11:12 AM

One level of complexity too much for me Eli.

Being a simple soul - I am less enthusiastic about odd references to particular resources as I am about constant references in a book.

Take the Bible Speaks Today Commentary on Ezekiel (Oh sorry you can't - too modern for Logos) but as an example...

The book says that all (most) quotations are from the NIV. My preferred bible is ESV (which I want to pop up most of the time.

However when I eventually get round to having the BST Ezekiel in my digital library I would want references in that resource to pop up the NIV as default.

I would like a setting that allows individual resources to override the preferred bible.

I can cope with the rest - I don't think there will be many that specify that all quotations are from the LXX

tootle pip

Mike

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Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 15 2015 11:45 AM

Mike Binks:
I would like a setting that allows individual resources to override the preferred bible.

That's already available by using Advanced Prioritization: https://wiki.logos.com/Prioritizing#Advanced_Prioritization 

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