ἐγὼ εἰμὶ
Question, how would I go about comparing frequency of ἐγὼ εἰμὶ in the NA27 vs. simply εἰμὶ? Also where would I look to find that comparison in the secular literature of the first century?
Comments
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could you join the 2 queries
cout you use the NOTWITHIN option?
or use analysis mode to work it out
Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have
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Terry Poperszky said:
Question, how would I go about comparing frequency of ἐγὼ εἰμὶ in the NA27 vs. simply εἰμὶ?
A search of NA27 turned up 48 instances of ἐγώ εἰμι and 140 instances of εἰμι.
I have just been reading Leon Morris's Jesus Is the Christ which has an excellent chapter on Jesus' use of ἐγώ εἰμι. That might be a start for a resource on usage outside of NT.
EDIT
There are 12 instances of εἰμὶ ἐγὼ. This might be a case for a syntax search, but I've not yet been able to wrap my brain around this--I need to work through some more of the examples on the wiki.
πάντα εἰς δόξαν θεοῦ ποιεῖτε
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Gary O'Neal said:
A search of NA27 turned up 48 instances of ἐγώ εἰμι and 140 instances of εἰμι.
I have just been reading Leon Morris's Jesus Is the Christ which has an excellent chapter on Jesus' use of ἐγώ εἰμι. That might be a start for a resource on usage outside of NT.
Just searching for "ἐγώ εἰμι" doesn't really cut it. "ἐγώ BEFORE 2 Word lemma:εἰμί@V???1" or something will work better. It will allow for the inclusion of γαρ or other variances in word order.
Prov. 15:23
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Kevin Becker said:
Just searching for "ἐγώ εἰμι" doesn't really cut it. "ἐγώ BEFORE 2 Word lemma:εἰμί@V???1" or something will work better. It will allow for the inclusion of γαρ or other variances in word order.
That's what I realized as I was posting the EDIT. That's why I suggested a syntax search, but I haven't had much success with these.
πάντα εἰς δόξαν θεοῦ ποιεῖτε
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Gary O'Neal said:
That's what I realized as I was posting the EDIT. That's why I suggested a syntax search, but I haven't had much success with these.
[:)] That's what happens when you click respond before someone edits their post to which you are responding. I should be able to post a syntax search later this evening to demonstrate this.
Prov. 15:23
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Here's my "official" report:
ἐγώ BEFORE 2 Word lemma:εἰμί@V???1 catches most of the significant occurances of the issue in question. I was able to dig up a couple extra hits with this search but it introduced more false hits than useful ones. [notice the skipped level on Phrase 1]
These two hits were John 28:20 and Luke 22:27; but both of them may not be theologically significant (I'll leave that to the pundits).
I also inverted the clause functions and ran this search (which could be accomplished by performing the above by using an unordered group)
It didn't provide any hits that I thought were relevant, but it did reveal some interesting differences between the two ways. The first word order was for qualities of a person and the second was almost exclusively use to speak of location (I am somewhere).
I was also struck by how much I want verse lists back! They would have been very helpful in the process of refining my syntax search in comparison with my baseline morph search. I had 5 version of the search (where I went from 4 results to 76)
Prov. 15:23
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Thanks Kevin, I knew I could count on you guys. I may have to pick up the book that John recommended to get to where I really want to be. That and the Logos videos so I am not stuck relying on other people to build my searches.
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Kevin Becker said:
I was also struck by how much I want verse lists back! They would have been very helpful in the process of refining my syntax search in comparison with my baseline morph search.
Fully agree!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Hi Terry.
Terry Poperszky said:Question, how would I go about comparing frequency of ἐγὼ εἰμὶ in the NA27 vs. simply εἰμὶ? Also where would I look to find that comparison in the secular literature of the first century?
As Kevin did, I did a syntax search in the Cascadia database. Here's the query I used:
This is probably overly generous, it will find where εγω is the head of a subject and ειμι is the head of verbal complement or verbal function in a clause, no matter what intervenes them. Most folks interested in εγω ειμι are focused on the two-word phrase itself. The results for this search give you 79 hits in the NT.
On the second portion of that question, you could do a morph search of all available resources with Logos morphology (or make your own collection to cover non-NT stuff). Here's what I did (including using my own collection, "Non-NT Greek Morph"):
Hope it helps.
Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
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Rick Brannan said:
Hope it helps.
Thanks Rick, the Cascadia graphs are new to me (I just acquired them in my recent upgrade), so while I see what you did, why (and for that matter how) you did it remain a mystery. I will break it out tonight when I get home and see if can figure it out.
P.S. Tell them to hurry up on the Greek/Hebrew tools video set [;)]
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Hi All,
Terry Poperszky said:why (and for that matter how) you did it remain a mystery.
I find myself in the same position... I played for awhile, trying to reconstruct your search. I got part way there....
But I couldn't figure out how to further refine the search with the additional info on each clause shown in Rick's example... And it's still a mystery WHY I did it that way. Would any of the search experts be willing to leave a trail of bread crumbs for us on this search?
THANKS!
Grace & Peace,
Bill
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bill,
Scroll down to the morp info on the right side; you'll see it's just like a morph search @V???S etc...
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Terry, Bill,
I will do my best to explain the why of Ricks (and my) syntax search.
1) We are searching for a simple relationship, where εγω is the subject of ειμι. Thus the first search term inputted is a Clause. A verse may contain many clauses so this is one area where syntax search can really improve over a basic morph search looking for two words in the same sentece
2) The unordered group allows for either term to come first. This is because, in Greek, word order is less important than in English. The subject can come before or after a verb so the Unordered group allows the search engine to catch potential variation.
3) Clause functions are relatively straight forward in Cascadia. If you look at the Cascadia graphs they give standard Grammatical classifications like Subject, Verb ect.
4) The cool things about the structure of the data is that the Clause functions contain all the data below them. So in Rick's search he is looking for two Clause functions. In the subject he is looking for a that clause function with the lemma εγω below it that is Nominative, Singular, 1st person pronoun. Nominative is the case of the subject in Greek (and is probably redundant in this case) and 1st person keeps plural subjects from clouding the results. The second clause function, Verb, looks for a clause function that has ειμι below it with all the particular restrictions placed on it.
Rick's search has the advantage over mine that it is
1) Simpler
2) will catch much more variation in the way the syntax graphs branch out without introducing matching skipped levels.
Hopefully, this explains things clearly enough. If not, ask some more questions!
Prov. 15:23
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Don't you hate it when you don't know enough to as the right questions? I am starting to get a glimmer here, but I need to play the Rick's search a little to see how it changes the results. Is there a manual for using the search feature of the Cascadia graphs? I got to the point where I needed to enter in the morphological data into the to clause functions and for the life of me I can't figure out how.Kevin Becker said:Hopefully, this explains things clearly enough. If not, ask some more questions!
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Hi Terry.
Terry Poperszky said:Don't you hate it when you don't know enough to as the right questions? I am starting to get a glimmer here, but I need to play the Rick's search a little to see how it changes the results. Is there a manual for using the search feature of the Cascadia graphs? I got to the point where I needed to enter in the morphological data into the to clause functions and for the life of me I can't figure out how.
When entering morph data anywhere in Logos 4 (morph search menu, morph fields in syntax search) use the '@' sign to indicate you're going to enter codes. You'll see a helper menu pop up, and you should be able to take it from there, either with keystrokes or mouse clicks.
Hope it helps. And thanks, Kevin, for the helpful explanations!
Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print0 -
Terry Poperszky said:
Is there a manual for using the search feature of the Cascadia graphs?
Not that I have. The MP manuals probably have a section on it, but I don't know. In your library are glossaries for each syntax database. Read them cover to cover (can we say this for ebooks?)! They will explain what each term means and help you pick up valuable insights on how each one understands the language.
After that pick something simple, easily verifiable by a morph search, to start practicing on constructing queries using the syntax charts as a guide.
Prov. 15:23
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Rick Brannan said:
use the '@' sign to indicate you're going to enter codes.
Thanks Rick, and I am even going to take responsibility for my oversight and not suggest that the UI needs to be redesigned to either not need the @ or put it in automatically for me. But I did notice BillS was having the same problem and he probably will. [;)]
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Rick Brannan said:
When entering morph data anywhere in Logos 4 (morph search menu, morph fields in syntax search) use the '@' sign to indicate you're going to enter codes.
Thanks, Rick! Despite L3 & participation in the beta, that wasn't intuitively obvious to me, either... A bread trail would've helped--perhaps the grayed out text could coach us to "Enter @ to key in codes" or somesuch?
Again, many thanks!
Grace & Peace,
Bill
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BillS said:
out text could coach us to "Enter @ to key in codes" or somesuch?
See Rick, I told you Bill would want UI changes. [:D]
Personally, I would settle for some decent help files or the Greek/Hebrew video that is in production.
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Rick Brannan said:
Most folks interested in εγω ειμι are focused on the two-word phrase itself
Ok, I replicated your search and have had a chance to look at the result, now I am interested in the above comment. How does the search that you constructed differ from the two-word phrase? Why am I better off using the search?
This is not necessarily directed at you Rick, I will also except explanations from the peanut gallery since you all know more than I do.
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Terry Poperszky said:
See Rick, I told you Bill would want UI changes.
Yabbut.... (yeah, but...) I proposed only a change to something they're already doing. They already have greyed out text in the data entry box. I was proposing only to make it more meaningful.... something that included the @ symbol.... [A]
Terry Poperszky said:Personally, I would settle for some decent help files
That'd work for me, too.. I can't tell you how many times I read the help files looking for a clue what to do next, or any explanation of the codes permissible in each of the fields. It was at least 4 times, each section in the area of help that seemed to deal with syntax....
Blessings!
Grace & Peace,
Bill
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Terry Poperszky said:
Ok, I replicated your search and have had a chance to look at the result, now I am interested in the above comment. How does the search that you constructed differ from the two-word phrase? Why am I better off using the search?
This is not necessarily directed at you Rick, I will also except explanations from the peanut gallery since you all know more than I do.
The question is "Does εγω ειμι allude to God's designation of himself as 'I am'"? If a biblical author is wanting to make this allusion they probably aren't going to separate the two words by much So the simple morph phrase search is going to pick out all of the potentially significant units. The syntax search will give you hits no matter how many words are in between the two words and the further apart these words are the less likely the author was making an allusion to God's self designation.
Prov. 15:23
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Kevin Becker said:
The question is "Does εγω ειμι allude to God's designation of himself as 'I am'"?
Kevin, this is where this whole thing started, i have heard of "I AM"s of Jesus and people relating it to the YHWH in exodus 3. As I try and gain my Greek skills back, I choose topics that are of interest to me, so this qualified. So I took εγω ειμι from John 8.58 and searched the NT and found something very interesting (at least too me), there were a bunch (48) of them, but they only appeared in the Gospels, Acts and Revelation. Also, the vast majority of them were Jesus speaking and John had the highest frequency of usage.
So, then the questions started to surface.
1. There were more than I had heard referenced in the "I AM"s of Jesus - So these didn't necessarily denote claims of deity.
2. No else tended to use this phrase - So there might be something special about it.
3. John's frequency, paired with the stated purpose of his gospel account - This indicates that there might be something special about it.
4. Now with the help of you and Rick, I see that most of the non-Jesus usage tended toward a different form which tells me something, but right now I am not sure what.
5. I do not see all of the paired word forms being used buy Jesus as indicative of Him claiming Deity. The reaction of his audience would have been different.
So, like any good bible study, I come away from this one with greater knowledge concerning a subject, and more questions than when I started. Now if I can only work out the application, it will make a good sermon [;)]
Once again, thanks to you and Rick for providing insight, and Bill for suffering with me. And John, I am still going to look that book up.
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Terry Poperszky said:
like any good bible study, I come away from this one with greater knowledge concerning a subject, and more questions than when I started.
One of my saddest days in seminary <huge grin> was when I realized the truth of what one professor kept telling me: the purpose of seminary (and Bible study) is not to answer our questions but to deepen them.
Blessings to you!
Grace & Peace,
Bill
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BillS said:
the purpose of seminary (and Bible study) is not to answer our questions but to deepen them.
like that -- wish I could remember it more often.
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Gary (also known as John)/Bill
I remember teaching a new adult SS class, and at the end one of the members said, "you have brought up a lot of questions, but you didn't give us any of the answers". I told him first that I found the questions more interesting, and that if I gave him the answers he had learned nothing, my job was to help him find those answers for himself.
Unfortunately he never came back to my class.
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Terry Poperszky said:
if I gave him the answers he had learned nothing, my job was to help him find those answers for himself.
Unfortunately he never came back to my class.
Go figure... And by natural bent I'm with him... It's hard NOT to have our questions ANSWERED. We WANT answers, not more questions![:D]
Blessings!
Grace & Peace,
Bill
MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
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BillS said:
Go figure... And by natural bent I'm with him
That just points to the uniqueness of God's creation...
BillS said:'s hard NOT to have our questions ANSWERED. We WANT answers, not more questions!
To a certain extent I agree with you, but this strikes at the core of my personality. I don't want answers given to me. I started learning greek long before I stood behind a pulpit. Why? My Pastor kept giving me answers that were based on the original languages, and I couldn't see them for myself. Funny thing is, as I started learning greek, he stopped using it. [:D] Why? Because he was passing along answers that were told to him by someone else (i.e. Textbook, commentary etc.), they weren't his answers, so when I started questioning them, he couldn't defend them.
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Isn't there an easier way to do this - it seems rather complicated for me, especially with all these technical terms?
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Jack,
In my mind, the easiest way to do it is just search "egw eimi" in quotes (the greek characters, not what I did here) in the NA27.
It's direct, and it gets what seems to be all of the genuine "I AM" references give or take.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Robert Pavich said:
In my mind, the easiest way to do it is just search "egw eimi" in quotes (the greek characters, not what I did here) in the NA27.
It's direct, and it gets what seems to be all of the genuine "I AM" references give or take
But that wouldn't have accomplished what the goal that I stated in my OP, even leaving aside the question of secular literature. The problem is that Greek isn't nearly as concerned with word order/placement as english is and that is what makes this question so difficult.
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Terry,
Yes..I know about the word order issue but I've done this search in the past and it seemed to me that all of the "genuine" "I AM's" were in that word order...
Just my .02c.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Hi
I am looking at this to gain familiarity with Syntax searches (using OpenText.org) and have the search below:
As well as returning results for "I am" it returns (expectedly) results for "I am not" such as John 1:20.
How would I modify the search to exclude occurrences of ου in its various forms?
Many thanks
Graham
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Graham,
One way is to just go to John 1:20, see where the negative term is located and put it in...then check the box labled "does not appear" (at the top of the right hand column)
You get something that looks like this; and doesn't include ouk.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Thanks Robert
I have tried this and - as far as I can see - it results in a match where there is an adjunct in the clause which is not ου but it doesn't find results where there is no adjunct in the clause at all.
So it finds 18:35 which has μητι as an adjunct but doesn't find 6:20 where there is no adjunct at all.
I was looking for something which would find a match when both of the following conditions were true:
- ου is not present as an adjunct
- any other adjunct may be present or it may not
Does this make sense or am I misunderstanding what you are suggesting?
Many thanks
Graham
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Graham Criddle said:
I was looking for something which would find a match when both of the following conditions were true:
- ου is not present as an adjunct
- any other adjunct may be present or it may not
Isn't that what we have?
I don't think I'm getting what you're saying... sorry
Also, It doesn't have to be an adjunct...any negative modifier and be cited....I just used that because we were talking about John 1:20
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Hi Robert
Sorry - I think I confused things by talking about John 1:20!
In my original search I get 36 hits as below:
John 1:20 καὶ ὡμολόγησεν καὶ οὐκ ἠρνήσατο καὶ ὡμολόγησεν ὅτι ἐγὼ οὐκ εἰμὶ ὁ Χριστός
John 1:27 ὁ ὀπίσω μου ἐρχόμενος οὗ οὐκ εἰμὶ ἐγὼ ἄξιος ἵνα λύσω αὐτοῦ τὸν ἱμάντα τοῦ ὑποδήματος
John 3:28 αὐτοὶ ὑμεῖς μοι μαρτυρεῖτε ὅτι εἶπον ὅτι οὐκ εἰμὶ ἐγὼ ὁ Χριστός ἀλλ ὅτι ἀπεσταλμένος ἔμπροσθεν ἐκείνου εἰμὶ
John 6:20 ὁ δὲ λέγει αὐτοῖς ἐγώ εἰμι μὴ φοβεῖσθε
John 6:35 εἶπεν αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ἄρτος τῆς ζωῆς ὁ ἐρχόμενος πρός ἐμὲ οὐ μὴ πεινάσῃ καὶ ὁ πιστεύων εἰς ἐμὲ οὐ μὴ διψήσει πώποτε
John 6:41 ἐγόγγυζον οὖν οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι περὶ αὐτοῦ ὅτι εἶπεν ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ἄρτος ὁ καταβὰς ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ
John 6:48 ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ἄρτος τῆς ζωῆς
John 6:51 ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ἄρτος ὁ ζῶν ὁ ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ καταβάς ἐάν τις φάγῃ ἐκ τούτου τοῦ ἄρτου ζήσει εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα καὶ ὁ ἄρτος δὲ ὃν ἐγὼ δώσω ὑπὲρ τῆς τοῦ κόσμου ζωῆς ἡ σάρξ μού ἐστιν
John 7:34 ζητήσετέ με καὶ οὐχ εὑρήσετέ με καὶ ὅπου εἰμὶ ἐγὼ ὑμεῖς οὐ δύνασθε ἐλθεῖν
John 7:36 τίς ἐστιν ὁ λόγος οὗτος ὃν εἶπεν ζητήσετέ με καὶ οὐχ εὑρήσετέ με καὶ ὅπου εἰμὶ ἐγὼ ὑμεῖς οὐ δύνασθε ἐλθεῖν
John 8:12 πάλιν οὖν αὐτοῖς ἐλάλησεν ὁ Ἰησοῦς λέγων ἐγώ εἰμι τὸ φῶς τοῦ κόσμου ὁ ἀκολουθῶν ἐμοὶ οὐ μὴ περιπατήσῃ ἐν τῇ σκοτίᾳ ἀλλ ἕξει τὸ φῶς τῆς ζωῆς
John 8:18 ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ μαρτυρῶν περὶ ἐμαυτοῦ καὶ μαρτυρεῖ περὶ ἐμοῦ ὁ πέμψας με πατήρ
John 8:23 καὶ ἔλεγεν αὐτοῖς ὑμεῖς ἐκ τῶν κάτω ἐστέ ἐγὼ ἐκ τῶν ἄνω εἰμί ὑμεῖς ἐκ τούτου τοῦ κόσμου ἐστέ ἐγὼ οὐκ εἰμὶ ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου τούτου
John 8:24 εἶπον οὖν ὑμῖν ὅτι ἀποθανεῖσθε ἐν ταῖς ἁμαρτίαις ὑμῶν ἐὰν γὰρ μὴ πιστεύσητε ὅτι ἐγώ εἰμι ἀποθανεῖσθε ἐν ταῖς ἁμαρτίαις ὑμῶν
John 8:28 εἶπεν οὖν αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς ὅταν ὑψώσητε τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου τότε γνώσεσθε ὅτι ἐγώ εἰμι καὶ ἀπ ἐμαυτοῦ ποιῶ οὐδέν ἀλλὰ καθὼς ἐδίδαξέν με ὁ πατὴρ ταῦτα λαλῶ
John 8:58 εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Ἰησοῦς ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί
John 9:9 ἄλλοι ἔλεγον ὅτι οὗτός ἐστιν ἄλλοι ἔλεγον οὐχί ἀλλὰ ὅμοιος αὐτῷ ἐστιν ἐκεῖνος ἔλεγεν ὅτι ἐγώ εἰμι
John 10:7 εἶπεν οὖν πάλιν ὁ Ἰησοῦς ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι ἐγώ εἰμι ἡ θύρα τῶν προβάτων
John 10:9 ἐγώ εἰμι ἡ θύρα δι ἐμοῦ ἐάν τις εἰσέλθῃ σωθήσεται καὶ εἰσελεύσεται καὶ ἐξελεύσεται καὶ νομὴν εὑρήσει
John 10:11 ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ποιμὴν ὁ καλός ὁ ποιμὴν ὁ καλὸς τὴν ψυχὴν αὐτοῦ τίθησιν ὑπὲρ τῶν προβάτων
John 10:14 ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ποιμὴν ὁ καλός καὶ γινώσκω τὰ ἐμὰ καὶ γινώσκουσί με τὰ ἐμά
John 11:25 εἶπεν αὐτῇ ὁ Ἰησοῦς ἐγώ εἰμι ἡ ἀνάστασις καὶ ἡ ζωή ὁ πιστεύων εἰς ἐμὲ κἂν ἀποθάνῃ ζήσεται
John 12:26 ἐὰν ἐμοί τις διακονῇ ἐμοὶ ἀκολουθείτω καὶ ὅπου εἰμὶ ἐγὼ ἐκεῖ καὶ ὁ διάκονος ὁ ἐμὸς ἔσται ἐάν τις ἐμοὶ διακονῇ τιμήσει αὐτὸν ὁ πατήρ
John 13:19 ἀπ ἄρτι λέγω ὑμῖν πρὸ τοῦ γενέσθαι ἵνα πιστεύσητε ὅταν γένηται ὅτι ἐγώ εἰμι
John 14:3 καὶ ἐὰν πορευθῶ καὶ ἑτοιμάσω τόπον ὑμῖν πάλιν ἔρχομαι καὶ παραλήμψομαι ὑμᾶς πρὸς ἐμαυτόν ἵνα ὅπου εἰμὶ ἐγὼ καὶ ὑμεῖς ἦτε
John 14:6 λέγει αὐτῷ ὁ Ἰησοῦς ἐγώ εἰμι ἡ ὁδὸς καὶ ἡ ἀλήθεια καὶ ἡ ζωή οὐδεὶς ἔρχεται πρὸς τὸν πατέρα εἰ μὴ δι ἐμοῦ
John 15:1 ἐγώ εἰμι ἡ ἄμπελος ἡ ἀληθινή καὶ ὁ πατήρ μου ὁ γεωργός ἐστιν
John 15:5 ἐγώ εἰμι ἡ ἄμπελος ὑμεῖς τὰ κλήματα ὁ μένων ἐν ἐμοὶ κἀγὼ ἐν αὐτῷ οὗτος φέρει καρπὸν πολύν ὅτι χωρὶς ἐμοῦ οὐ δύνασθε ποιεῖν οὐδέν
John 17:14 ἐγὼ δέδωκα αὐτοῖς τὸν λόγον σου καὶ ὁ κόσμος ἐμίσησεν αὐτούς ὅτι οὐκ εἰσὶν ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου καθὼς ἐγὼ οὐκ εἰμὶ ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου
John 17:16 ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου οὐκ εἰσὶν καθὼς ἐγὼ οὐκ εἰμὶ ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου
John 17:24 πάτερ ὃ δέδωκάς μοι θέλω ἵνα ὅπου εἰμὶ ἐγὼ κἀκεῖνοι ὦσιν μετ ἐμοῦ ἵνα θεωρῶσιν τὴν δόξαν τὴν ἐμὴν ἣν δέδωκάς μοι ὅτι ἠγάπησάς με πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου
John 18:5 ἀπεκρίθησαν αὐτῷ Ἰησοῦν τὸν Ναζωραῖον λέγει αὐτοῖς ἐγώ εἰμι εἱστήκει δὲ καὶ Ἰούδας ὁ παραδιδοὺς αὐτὸν μετ αὐτῶν
John 18:6 ὡς οὖν εἶπεν αὐτοῖς ἐγώ εἰμι ἀπῆλθον εἰς τὰ ὀπίσω καὶ ἔπεσαν χαμαί
John 18:8 ἀπεκρίθη Ἰησοῦς εἶπον ὑμῖν ὅτι ἐγώ εἰμι εἰ οὖν ἐμὲ ζητεῖτε ἄφετε τούτους ὑπάγειν
John 18:35 ἀπεκρίθη ὁ Πιλᾶτος μήτι ἐγὼ Ἰουδαῖός εἰμι τὸ ἔθνος τὸ σὸν καὶ οἱ ἀρχιερεῖς παρέδωκάν σε ἐμοί τί ἐποίησας
John 18:37 εἶπεν οὖν αὐτῷ ὁ Πιλᾶτος οὐκοῦν βασιλεὺς εἶ σύ ἀπεκρίθη ὁ Ἰησοῦς σὺ λέγεις ὅτι βασιλεύς εἰμι ἐγὼ εἰς τοῦτο γεγέννημαι καὶ εἰς τοῦτο ἐλήλυθα εἰς τὸν κόσμον ἵνα μαρτυρήσω τῇ ἀληθείᾳ πᾶς ὁ ὢν ἐκ τῆς ἀληθείας ἀκούει μου τῆς φωνῆς
If I run your modified search (if I have replicated it properly) I get just 5 hits (in 4 passages) as below:
John 8:23 καὶ ἔλεγεν αὐτοῖς ὑμεῖς ἐκ τῶν κάτω ἐστέ ἐγὼ ἐκ τῶν ἄνω εἰμί ὑμεῖς ἐκ τούτου τοῦ κόσμου ἐστέ ἐγὼ οὐκ εἰμὶ ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου τούτουJohn 17:14 ἐγὼ δέδωκα αὐτοῖς τὸν λόγον σου καὶ ὁ κόσμος ἐμίσησεν αὐτούς ὅτι οὐκ εἰσὶν ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου καθὼς ἐγὼ οὐκ εἰμὶ ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου
John 17:16 ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου οὐκ εἰσὶν καθὼς ἐγὼ οὐκ εἰμὶ ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου
John 18:35 ἀπεκρίθη ὁ Πιλᾶτος μήτι ἐγὼ Ἰουδαῖός εἰμι τὸ ἔθνος τὸ σὸν καὶ οἱ ἀρχιερεῖς παρέδωκάν σε ἐμοί τί ἐποίησας
whereas I was hoping to maintain hits to verses such as John 6:51 and John 8:12 which - I am assuming - are no longer returned as the phrases don't contain an Adjunct.
Does this make any sense?
Thanks, Graham
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Graham...
yes that makes perfect sense...let me go at it again...
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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I actually got 21 results when I did the "not ou as an adjunct" search...hmmm...
Also, do this....just uncheck the "adjunct" in the "clause component" box and run it again...it picks up all of the missing adjuncts again...but not the "ou"s
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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PS: This whole discussion we're having about the different searches and their results would seem to be a great situation to use the passage list merging function..
I'm going to mess around with it tonight...
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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I think the difference between my 5 results and your 21 is that you are searching on "All Passages" (per your screen shot) and I am just using John. When I change my range to use "All Passages" I get 21 results - so that at least gives me confidence that I have reproduced your search correctly!
If I uncheck the adjunct box then I get up to 25 results (in John) but there are still some missing - for example John 8:58 “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” is presumably because the phrase just includes two components, the subject and predicator.
John 1:20 is back in! I assume this is because while ou is being excluded there are other components in the clause which means it matches (in this case the conjunction):
Thanks for your support on this
Graham
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