Logos Installation Corrupting System Files?

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DivineCordial | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Oct 25 2015 7:34 AM

I recently made a new build. I have been having trouble with corrupted system files and have been trying to isolate the cause. At this point everything was fine until I installed Logos. That pattern seems consistent. I run SFC /Scannow which comes up clean until AFTER I install Logos. BTW, I have about 20GB+ to download on a 3.3Mbit connection, so this takes about 24 hours. Neither SFC /SCANNOW nor the DISM /ONLINE /CLEANUP-IMAGE /RESTOREHEALTH commands are able to fix the problem (DISM says it cannot find the source files, even with the setting under Group Policy is set to download from Windows Update). The good news is that my new build indexes fast.

Has anyone else noticed this pattern of corrupted system files after installing Logos?

Windows 10 64-bit
Logos 6.6 SR-2 6.6.0.0069

AMD FX-8350 (8 core, 4GHz/4.2 Turbo)
ASUS Crosshair V Formula-Z
Corsair Vengeance RAM (16GB, 1866MHz, 9-10-9-27-36 timings)
Sapphire Radeon R9 380 4GB GDDR5 256-bit
AMD Radeon R7 SSD 240GB
CoolerMaster Hyper EVO 212 CPU Cooler

Voltages seem fine, temps are fine. CHKDSK "surface scan" reports the SSD is fine. Memtest doesn't find any errors with the RAM. Any stress testing of the CPU has not resulted in any crashes.

I plan on getting a data drive soon, I may try installing onto that to make sure there isn't a problem with the SSD.

3386.sfc_cannot_repair.txt

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Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 25 2015 9:40 AM

Have not heard of this before. Can you upload the logos right after this error?

See the Wiki for assistance in uploading Logos logos. 

Lynden Williams Communications

Posts 164
DivineCordial | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 25 2015 10:07 AM

Yes, Logos will launch.

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DivineCordial | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 25 2015 10:08 AM

ATM, I've restored a backup image and am going to run the computer for a few days without installing Logos to see if system file corruption occurs.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 25 2015 2:47 PM

DivineCordial:
At this point everything was fine until I installed Logos. That pattern seems consistent.

DivineCordial:
I plan on getting a data drive soon, I may try installing onto that to make sure there isn't a problem with the SSD.

How much free space on the SSD before and after installing Logos? If less than 20% the drive will not be as efficient, nor as fast as it was designed and you might experience problems. So you need at least 35% free space before installing Logos!

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 164
DivineCordial | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 25 2015 4:53 PM

The drive had well more than 35% free space. 240GB and probably about ~60GB used.

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Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 26 2015 7:36 AM

DivineCordial:
I have been having trouble with corrupted system files and have been trying to isolate the cause. At this point everything was fine until I installed Logos.

What are the symptoms / indicators telling you that you have corrupt system files? Something must be making you think you need to run sfc and dism.

About 1-1/2 yrs ago I got a new Ultrabook with Win 8.1. I experienced similar oddities as I got the system usable (Office installed, Logos installed, other apps, etc.). I exchanged the unit for an identical one and had the same problem. Making a short story long, the weird / corrupt behavior manifested itself primarily in anything related to Windows Update - checking for updates, services running in the same process as Windows Update, etc. In particular, the service named BITS (Background Intelligent Transfer Service) would stop behaving, which impacts both Windows Update and, yes, Logos.

I still don't know for sure what the underlying problem was, though I've seen it a few more times on Windows 8.1. My best hypothesis is that there is a bug in Windows which surfaces when there are unexpected network errors during Windows Update / BITS activity (possibly, more specifically, DNS errors). I've come up with a mechanism which seems to clear things up when I have the problem: most importantly, make sure any reboots are full reboots, not "hybrid" reboots.

My $.02 ...

Donnie

Posts 164
DivineCordial | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 26 2015 9:38 AM

Originally I had some BSOD crashes after adjusting the CPU-NB and HT speeds to 2800MHz and 2600MHz respectively. I was cautious about setting the CPU-NB to 2800 because the voltage would raise from ~1.162 to 1.45 and had difficulty finding straight answers on the appropriate speeds. After reading the AMD Tuning Guide I concluded that it may be fine at that setting, so I tried it, ran a stress test on the CPU and it crashed in probably less than 5 minutes with a blue screen. I immediately turned the computer off and changed the setting back to 2200. Afterwards there was file system corruption, system file corruption, Norton installation corruption, and the network driver became corrupted. Able to fix the others but not the System Files, I clean installed Windows 10 and everything seemed fine for a while, until another blue screen. The blue screens seemed to happen after the computer was off for the night and happened when I first turned the computer on. These occurred with the CPU-NB at 2200 and the HT at 2600. I have since gone back to the CMOS defaults of 2200MHz for both of them and have not had any blue screens since. However, I am running CHKDSK, SFC/DISM, and Norton Get Support regularly to see if any corruption occurs. When SFC reports errors, I think it has been consistently after installing Logos. This is what I am attempting to determine in order to isolate the problem. I am going to wait about a week or so before installing Logos again, and in the meantime will run a number of tests. I'll report them when they're done, or if system file corruption occurs before then, then it may be something besides Logos.

BTW, I also run SFC and other checks regularly on my systems as part of overall tune-ups.

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Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 26 2015 10:39 AM

DivineCordial:
Norton installation corruption

I may get beat up for saying this, but Norton *is* the virus. Apart from managing a large group of PCs via some type of central management utility, I honestly don't see what 3rd party a/v or firewall solutions provide at this point. For the most part, they're poorly written and resource intensive, and they interfere with legitimate applications, including Logos.

Keep in mind that if Logos is installed per instructions, which means without UAC (elevation / admin rights), then it has no ability to touch, affect, change or otherwise corrupt system files, network drivers, and the like.

Again, my $.02 ...

Donnie

Posts 164
DivineCordial | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 26 2015 10:50 AM

I have never had Norton interfere with Logos in the past. However, I will keep that in mind and if the problems continue I will try a clean install without Norton and see if corrupted files occur after installing Logos.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 26 2015 2:50 PM

DivineCordial:
Originally I had some BSOD crashes after adjusting the CPU-NB and HT speeds to 2800MHz and 2600MHz respectively.

I never found it worth the effort/headache to speed up hardware when you can buy the system you want and later change drives or add memory as needed! But I've had two recoverable BSOD's with Win 10 and once couldn't boot into Windows. CHKDSK reported everything was OK with the NTFS file system, but attempting a file system operation (e.g. cluster size) showed there was some corruption on the SSD. I was able to recover easily with a three day old image backup, as the bottom line for me has always been to prefer a third party image backup over a recovery utility; whether provided by Windows or the manufacturer.

With regard to SSD reliability, see https://community.logos.com/forums/p/117191/771393.aspx#771393.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 164
DivineCordial | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 26 2015 7:30 PM

Dave Hooton:

I never found it worth the effort/headache to speed up hardware when you can buy the system you want and later change drives or add memory as needed!



The intention was to set them to the appropriate speeds. No overclocking was intended. However, I had trouble finding straight answers as to the optimal settings. Most seemed to recommend a CPU-NB setting of 3 times the system memory speed as well as either matching or being set higher than the HT speed. The official HT speed for the AMD FX-8350 is supposed to be 2600MHz. And three time the RAM speed would set the CPU-NB at 2800MHz (3x933). However, the AMD Tuning Guide states that the CPU-NB should be set to at least twice the system memory speed, which would be 1866, though the Auto defaults to 2200, more than enough to match that recommendation.

With CMOS defaults, the CPU is correctly detected at 4000MHz. The RAM is detected at 1333MHz. The CPU-NB at 2200MHz. And the HT at 2600MHz. Then, manually adjusting the RAM to 1866MHz with timings of 9-10-9-27-36 and all other timings left on Auto, the HT speed changes to 2200MHz automatically. I haven't found any clear answers as to whether this is supposed to happen with 1866MHz RAM.

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DivineCordial | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 26 2015 7:36 PM

I had the computer off for a few hours and when I started the computer I received an error:

Runtime Error!

Program: C:\Windows\System32\LogonUI.exe

After which the Logon screen appeared as normal, and allowed me to login. SFC reported all system files were fine. I will be looking into Fast Startup as a potential cause.

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Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 26 2015 7:45 PM

I would second the notion that Norton Antivirus is counterproductive.  It may not have anything to do with your current issues, but it will be a future issue.  Also, I wouldn't adjust CPU frequency unless you are overclocking, and I agree with Dave that you should just buy the CPU that is the speed you desire instead of overclocking.  I always use ASUS motherboards, and I do find that the RAM speed usually defaults to a lower setting than what the sticks actually are.  I do manually set those speeds to the actual speed of the RAM.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 164
DivineCordial | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 27 2015 10:17 AM

Well whatever it is it isn't Logos per se.

I did some further testing, including an all night Memtest (7+ hours) with no error. SFC reported clean.

I also did some further stress testing of the CPU as well as multitasking while the stress tests were going on. No crashes occurred.

I also did some benchmarks/tests on the SSD and no problems occurred.

However, now the system files have become corrupted again, and a quick glance appears that the same system files are corrupted. The only thing I can think of that changed was the stress test on the CPU and the SSD benchmark. At this point, it has me thinking it's a hardware error again, but it's still unclear as to which component. If the CPU was somehow damaged during the ~5 minutes w/CPU-NB @ 2800MHz then it does seem strange that it doesn't crash when stress tested. It also seems strange that the same system files are corrupting each time.

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DivineCordial | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 16 2015 2:42 PM

UPDATE - I am still working towards isolating the problem. During this install, no system file corruption occurred until after the Windows 10 November Update. Until then, I ran the computer for quite a while but had not yet installed Logos. I also tried stress testing it and only managed to crash it a couple of times during stress testing. It has successfully been stressed with Prime95, FurMark, and ATTO Disk Bench simultaneously without crashing.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 16 2015 4:58 PM

Run the Windows Event Viewer and look for errors in Windows Logs >> System or even Applications and Services Logs >> Hardware Events

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 164
DivineCordial | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 20 2015 11:48 AM

Again, system file corruption has occurred after installing Logos Bible Software. Here's what I did:

Clean installed Windows 10 Pro using a fresh ISO of the November Update.

Installed SATA and USB drivers, and Audio drivers.

Installed all Windows Updates, including AMD Catalyst.

SFC /Scannow, froze at 15% for some reason.

Restarted computer.

SFC /Scannow, found and fixed corrupt files.

SFC /Scannow now, froze again for some reason at 45%.

Restarted Computer.

SFC /Scannow, report clean.

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /ScanHealth, clean.

Installed Logos 6.7 SP1

At 95% download (before indexing), ran SFC /Scannow again, reported corrupt files but cannot fix them.

DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth again fails, error code 1726.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Nov 20 2015 12:49 PM

DivineCordial:
Again, system file corruption has occurred after installing Logos Bible Software.

However corruption occurred immediately after installing Windows updates, before installing Logos. The common denominator, as pointed out by Donnie, is BITS! I've never known (installing) Logos to corrupt system files.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 1993
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 23 2015 10:53 AM

A few thoughts:

- You had some kind of corruption before installing Logos. You might bypass or remove the drive you're installing the OS and Logos to (I'm assuming it's the same drive). Try a vanilla spinning platter drive.

- Who is your ISP / how good is your internet connection? You might try setting your DNS servers to Google (8.8.8.8 / 8.8.4.4).

- Try installing Logos as the very first thing after the base OS install - no driver updates, no Windows updates, etc.

- Try the Sysinternals "autoruns" utility to see what's floating around as part of startup. Check the event log, especially the system log.

- Can you confirm that you are installing Logos *without* admin / elevated rights? That is the best practice - those rights are not required. This is what makes me dubious that Logos is corrupting true system files, if it is correctly being installed without admin rights.

My $.02 ...

Donnie

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