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Posts 3
augustine9989 | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Dec 2 2015 9:16 AM

Hi- I’ve been ruminating for months in regards to the purchase of the Verbum basic package and would really like some insight from people who are already using Verbum. My main question boils down to this- in your opinion, would the cost of the package justify the limited utilization that someone in my situation would gain from it? I would be using Verbum for purely personal study and reading. I’m a father of three small children with a full-time job and so my time is very limited. I do most of my reading on my smart phone and iPad via the Kindle app and use the free features if the Verbum iOS app for rudimentary bible reading and study with the Haydock commentary. I really like the app and have longed to add resources such as the Summa and the Church Fathers, the Orchard commentary, etc. I imagine myself searching through these resources quite often. Beyond that, I would be reading books by Ratzinger, Peter Kreeft, encyclicals, etc. and I know that I would benefit from having linked references to the bible/summa, from within these texts. That being said however, I’ve played around with the Verbum Mac/Windows desktop app and while I understand how powerful it is, I can honestly say that I will probably never utilize the desktop app. I’m not conducting research or planning on producing anything. I simply want to have a better understanding of scripture and the faith in general. So given my unique situation, would you remain in the Kindle environment, or would you consider a $250 investment in Verbum to be worth the cost despite limited utilization of the features? Thanks very much for your opinions!

Posts 932
Justin Gatlin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2015 9:19 AM

For you, Verbum Cloud will make much more sense: https://verbumcloud.com/essentials. You can still buy individual resources, but I would go for this instead of a base package.

Posts 5321
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2015 10:34 AM

I agree a base package may not be right for you... but another option that is inexpensive is

Catechism of the Catholic Church Collection (9 vols.)

Items I can highly recommend that may be very useful to you would include:

Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture

Collegeville Catholic Refence Library:

Is a compatible CDROM that bundles several resources that are most useful. If you go to amazon you can find it easily enough. (Yes I can slap my own hands for violating forum rules, but since Faithlife no longer offers a comparable bundle, I feel little guilt informing someone about it). One thing to note is sometimes they say new used.. USED is very iffy because if it truly is used, i.e. someone has installed it, it is registered to the original owner and can only be transferred via FL customer service for a fee of $25, and that is assuming the original owner's being able to be contacted/willing to do it.

The subscription model mentioned above does include the commentary I mentioned and is a fine deal for you to get a feel for verbum and perhaps it is the most economical way of doing it.

-Dan

Posts 12
Robert Pupo | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2015 1:27 PM

I purchased Verbum because I love the bible and love to learn. Like you, I am a father of three that does not NEED the product but use it as a tool to grow in my faith.

I agree with Dan's comment above. I started out buying the Catechism Collection in 2012. My perception at that time was that the Logos Base Packages were too expensive and I could not justify the expense. But at $42.36 [the cost at that time] I had no problem investing in the CCC collection.

After using the CCC collection for a few months my perception of Logos changed. I still believed that the Logos Base Packages were too expensive BUT, now I could justify the expense because after using the program I had understood how powerful the tool was and the benefits it gave me.

I decided to upgrade to the lowest base package but did not have the budget to purchase it outright so I took advantage of the Logos payment plan and paid for it over time in monthly installments that I could manage. After I finished paying for it I upgraded to the next level, and so on.

I hope this helps. Blessings...

Verbum 6 Scholar + Verbum Feature Crossgrade

Lenovo T430s laptop, Intel Core I5 CPU @ 2.60GHz, 8Gb RAM, 256Gb SSD, Win 7 Pro

Posts 202
Stephen Terlizzi | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2015 3:34 PM

I agree with Dan and Robert. Verbum is critical for my work, but I think the CCC collection is a great way to get an introduction to the functionality. Exploring Scripture, the Catechism and some church documents is a great way to learn the Catholic deposit of faith.

Posts 932
Justin Gatlin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2015 6:37 PM

Augustine:

 I really like the app and have longed to add resources such as the Summa and the Church Fathers, the Orchard commentary, etc. I imagine myself searching through these resources quite often. Beyond that, I would be reading books by Ratzinger, Peter Kreeft, encyclicals, etc. and I know that I would benefit from having linked references to the bible/summa, from within these texts. 

I am an evangelical pastor, so I am not really in your shoes, but since no one else has talked about Cloud after I linked to it (and I think you are the ideal use case), let me try to sell it a little more. What made me recommend a subscription is that for $7.50 a month (paid annually) or $8.99 a month (paid monthly) "Verbum Cloud Essentials gives you the daily Mass readings, The Early Church Fathers, St. Thomas Aquinas’ Summa Theologica, the Documents of Vatican II, The Sources of Catholic Dogma, Haydock's Catholic Bible Commentary, Orchard’s Catholic Commentary, the Catena Aurea, writings of St. Augustine, St. Catherine of Siena, St. Francis of Assisi, and hundreds more." It sounds to me like that would form the core of the library for you for just over $100 a year. If you wanted to add specific books to that you could and if you decided to switch to a purchased base package instead of rental later, you could. If you find you are only using the resources in the collections others have recommended, you could buy those. $10 is cheaper than one book, so Verbum Cloud is a great way to see if the software is for you.

Posts 1887
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2015 7:28 PM

The base packages do have more than a bit of sticker shock. I certainly understand that. There are aspects of the software that are admittedly designed for professions - and like you I am an amateur. But many of those tools are really designed to "put the cookies on the bottom shelf" - to give us access to information that it was quite a bit harder to get to without computers.

Quality bible study can be done using the free tools - or even without computers. But the base packages are designed to leverage the resources to work even better together. We, of course, cannot know the details of your financial situation - what is the best way to be a good steward of what you have - including your children. But the base packages, or the new cloud rental option will let you enlarge your conversation, so to speak, by bringing you to more figures in the church's life.

I do hope you continue to evaluate your options - and have the wisdom to choose what is best for you.

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials

L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze

Posts 1602
Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2015 8:02 PM

Augustine,

I can only add another perspective to the very helpful comments by the others.  That is, keep in mind that the cost is mostly influenced and proportional to the number of resources you purchase.  Looking at it a different way, the basic core Verbum engine is free, the mobile versions of the Verbum application are free.  What you are really paying for are books.  These are very advanced resources with tagging that link them with other books.  That is where the primary value is.  And it is a great value.

So, even if you never use the desktop version of Verbum, you can benefit from more resources.  Having the basic Catechism Collection is a great value and a great start.  You may want to look at the Catholic Answers Library is another option with some different content than the Verbum Basic Library.

Bottom line is that books/resources are really what you are buying.  And the advanced capabilities of those books with tagging and links makes those books more valuable that the paper versions of the same.  As you have mentioned .. being able to have them at your fingertips, literally in your pocket is what makes the most sense for you.

I have a very nice, very large Verbum library that I like and use very much.  I invested in that library not mainly because it has very powerful software capabilities, which it does.  I invested in a number of books which I would have never been able to afford in the paper versions.  Add the advanced tagging and linking and, well ...  

Posts 274
Average Joe | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 3 2015 6:37 AM

Justin Gatlin:

Augustine:

 I really like the app and have longed to add resources such as the Summa and the Church Fathers, the Orchard commentary, etc. I imagine myself searching through these resources quite often. Beyond that, I would be reading books by Ratzinger, Peter Kreeft, encyclicals, etc. and I know that I would benefit from having linked references to the bible/summa, from within these texts. 

I am an evangelical pastor, so I am not really in your shoes, but since no one else has talked about Cloud after I linked to it (and I think you are the ideal use case), let me try to sell it a little more. What made me recommend a subscription is that for $7.50 a month (paid annually) or $8.99 a month (paid monthly) "Verbum Cloud Essentials gives you the daily Mass readings, The Early Church Fathers, St. Thomas Aquinas’ Summa Theologica, the Documents of Vatican II, The Sources of Catholic Dogma, Haydock's Catholic Bible Commentary, Orchard’s Catholic Commentary, the Catena Aurea, writings of St. Augustine, St. Catherine of Siena, St. Francis of Assisi, and hundreds more." It sounds to me like that would form the core of the library for you for just over $100 a year. If you wanted to add specific books to that you could and if you decided to switch to a purchased base package instead of rental later, you could. If you find you are only using the resources in the collections others have recommended, you could buy those. $10 is cheaper than one book, so Verbum Cloud is a great way to see if the software is for you.

You can also get the first month of Verbum Cloud for free!

https://verbumcloud.com/ 

I look at Verbum Cloud as a sort of spiritual Netflix. For pretty much the same price as that subscription service, you get access to loads of resources for as long as you are a member.

Posts 274
Average Joe | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 3 2015 6:46 AM

Steve:

Augustine,

I can only add another perspective to the very helpful comments by the others.  That is, keep in mind that the cost is mostly influenced and proportional to the number of resources you purchase.  Looking at it a different way, the basic core Verbum engine is free, the mobile versions of the Verbum application are free.  What you are really paying for are books.  These are very advanced resources with tagging that link them with other books.  That is where the primary value is.  And it is a great value.

So, even if you never use the desktop version of Verbum, you can benefit from more resources.  Having the basic Catechism Collection is a great value and a great start.  You may want to look at the Catholic Answers Library is another option with some different content than the Verbum Basic Library.

Bottom line is that books/resources are really what you are buying.  And the advanced capabilities of those books with tagging and links makes those books more valuable that the paper versions of the same.  As you have mentioned .. being able to have them at your fingertips, literally in your pocket is what makes the most sense for you.

I have a very nice, very large Verbum library that I like and use very much.  I invested in that library not mainly because it has very powerful software capabilities, which it does.  I invested in a number of books which I would have never been able to afford in the paper versions.  Add the advanced tagging and linking and, well ...  

Well put, Steve. That's what sold me on Verbum. I could either continue buying books in print, buy them digitally on Amazon, or buy them digitally on Verbum. With Verbum, I get the cross-links which I really love. With the app, I love reading the Bible side by side with a commentary. Or I can read the Catechism, tap a footnote, and see the original source being referenced.

It is an investment. So you might start small with Verbum Cloud or the Catechism Collection, as has been suggested. But a print library is also an investment. So are a lot of hobbies that don't have near the same spiritual pay-off. Obviously, we want to be good stewards of our resources, but if you have the discretionary funds and a desire to grow in faith, then I think Verbum is a great investment.

Posts 124
Antonius | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 3 2015 9:18 AM

Start with these two resources, the RSV2CE is a great translation, and the Ignatius Study Bible is a fantastic, in both price and content, one volume book for the New Testament :
https://www.logos.com/product/29516/ignatius-catholic-study-bible-new-testament-genesis-exodus-and-the-rsv2ce

Peter Kreeft is a fantastic teacher/professor.   https://www.logos.com/product/29607/you-can-understand-the-bible

This bundle is a great value for $45. The Catechism ($14) and Vatican II Documents ($16) are worth almost 1/2 the price. More books than the CCC Collection, for about the same price.   https://www.logos.com/product/46251/logos-6-catholic-studies-bundle-s    ($45)

Add this Dictionary (from Scott Hahn) later, or upgrade to the Medium Catholic Studies Bundle ($90) (upgrade from Small study bundle is $45?)
https://www.logos.com/product/38435/catholic-bible-dictionary    ($35, included in Medium Catholic Studies Bundle)

Posts 3
augustine9989 | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 3 2015 10:01 AM

Wow, my thanks to all of you for the time that took to shareg your thoughts on this program. I suppose my question boiled down to whether I, as someone who is purely interested in spiritual enrichment and with no need to conduct research, could nevertheless  benefit form Verbum in a spiritual way. From your comments, it sounds as if the answer is yes. It's clear to me that you all have a passion for the scripture and Tradition of the faith that goes beyond just professional necessity.

I like the idea of using Verbum Cloud to try out a full library for a month. I think I will start there. While the Catechism collection is definitely affordable, it lacks two resources which I would consider indispensable- The Summa and The Church Fathers (which cost $200 each when purchased separate from a library). Would you agree that after the bible, those two particular  resources are most frequently used by the majority of people?

Another person suggested the medium Logos Catholic Studies Bundle as an affordable alternative to the basic Verbum library (and with resources that are unique to it). I'm wondering if there are any other Logos "bundles" that may be comparable to the full library for a beginner or if it would be wise to start there and then add the basic library later. I've ready about "dynamic pricing" which would reduce the cost of a bundle or library for resources that you already own, however, it does not sound as if it is a dollar for dollar reduction and so I'm thinking that it would be financially wiser to purchase a  larger collection first.

Thanks again to all of you and God bless!

Posts 3
augustine9989 | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 3 2015 10:04 AM

Antonius- I just saw your post after I posted my latest- those are fantastic ideas- Thanks!

Posts 5321
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 3 2015 10:46 AM

After hearing a little bit more it sounds like you are likely a good candidate for purchasing Verbum. The question remains whether the subscription cloud is a good fit for you or owning your own package. Trying the cloud for a month subscription (free trial) is likely the best way to go. From there you can decide if you are best to be paying a subscription model or go for ownership even if doing it through a payment plan. Whatever you decide God bless you as you continue to study and grow in your faith.

-Dan

Posts 274
Average Joe | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 3 2015 12:23 PM

The Church Fathers and the Summa are very handy to have. They "fill in" a lot of the links that are in the Catechism (since the CCC references them both so much). The best way to get the Church Fathers set is in one of the base packages. The cost of the set on its own is only a few dollars cheaper than Verbum Basic is right now.

In general, the resources in the base packages are discounted at somewhere around 90% of what they cost separately. So, while it is a bigger initial investment, it gives you a lot more bang for your buck.

I would bet that after a month of using Verbum Cloud, you'll have a better sense of what it offers and what you direction you want to go.

Posts 1237
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 3 2015 1:00 PM

If its helpful?  I have a few base packages and many of my purchases were driven by ministry or study requirements but I do a lot of devotional reading and there is really no separation for me between devotion, study and ministry. You can't draw a line between them and all of them are prayer.

Also note you can get some nice video series in there too.

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 5725
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 3 2015 7:52 PM

Average Joe:

In general, the resources in the base packages are discounted at somewhere around 90% of what they cost separately. So, while it is a bigger initial investment, it gives you a lot more bang for your buck.

I would bet that after a month of using Verbum Cloud, you'll have a better sense of what it offers and what you direction you want to go.

I second every word of this.

John Goodman:
I have a few base packages and many of my purchases were driven by ministry or study requirements but I do a lot of devotional reading and there is really no separation for me between devotion, study and ministry. You can't draw a line between them and all of them are prayer.

I find myself doing a lot of spiritual reading in Verbum too.

“Whoever looks upon the Crucified One sees what love is.” — Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger

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