Updates to Payment Plan Program
We’ve been carefully measuring the impact of the payment plan updates introduced in November and are happy to report that we’re seeing the intended results.
Based on these results and the feedback you’ve shared with us, we’re making some additional changes. We'll be retaining the elements shown most effective in allowing us to continue to grow a healthy and sustainable business while re-introducing some of the flexibility the program offered in the past that has proven so valuable to many of our long term customers.
The changes we've made this week affect how new purchases can be combined with existing payment plans.
When adding a new purchase to an existing payment plan:
Pay 25% down at the point of sale, and consolidate the purchase balance with the existing payment plan balance into a payment plan that meets the following criteria:
- The plan length may not exceed the greater of:
- The number of months remaining on the longest existing payment plan
- The number of months the new purchase qualifies for
- The maximum term allowed will be 20 months.
To combine multiple existing payment plans and a new purchase:
Pay 25% down at the point of sale, and consolidate the purchase balance and existing payment plan balances into one payment plan that meets the following criteria:
- The resulting monthly payment may not be less than the combined existing monthly payments.
- The plan length may not exceed the greater of:
- The number of months remaining on the longest existing payment plan
- The number of months the new purchase qualifies for
- The maximum term allowed will be 20 months.
Comments
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So the main change here is that the maximum term for an updated payment plan is 20 months, rather than 12 months?
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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The primary change allows the majority of our customers to add new purchases to their existing plans without having to reduce the length of their plan. Yes, the maximum term allowed for a new combined payment plan has been increased to 20 months, up from 12.
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This still negatively impacts me in such a way that after my current plan runs out I will not be using another. Nor will I be adding to it as I had in the past. Already I have passed on $1,200 in books since this new plan came out.
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So just to be clear.
Lets say a guy has 27 months left on his plan.
He adds the mega pack to his plan (call it 200$ for nice easy numbers).
He would have to pay 25% or 50$, and the payment plan length would shorten to 20 months?L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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It seems as if the changes will wean a lot of Logos users off of impulse purchases. Multi-thousand dollar purchases will certainly diminish.Everett Headley said:This still negatively impacts me in such a way that after my current plan runs out I will not be using another. Nor will I be adding to it as I had in the past. Already I have passed on $1,200 in books since this new plan came out.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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This isn't working for me either. I'm over $40K invested and don't know how I'm going to spend much more with these changes.
Also, Mark hit the nail on the head: "the max term for updated payment plan is 20 month, rather than 12 months." Marketing is a funny thing in how we word things to be a little more complicated than they need to be. The 25% down is still a big issue for many of us I'm sure; it is for me.
Super.Tramp is also right: it will "wean a lot of Logos users off the impulse purchases," though not too sure that this was Logos' intention, since they ARE a business.
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Glenn Airoldi said:
The primary change allows the majority of our customers to add new purchases to their existing plans without having to reduce the length of their plan.
This is definitely something that I've seen many forum users ask for (by which I usually mean complain about not beign able to do). For their sakes, thank you for listening.
Glenn Airoldi said:Yes, the maximum term allowed for a new combined payment plan has been increased to 20 months, up from 12.
That is also a great change, for which you should be thanked.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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I normally do not post on forums but wanted to make a couple small comments. Although I am glad to see the the max term move to 20 months I believe the old system was much more helpful to the customer. Now, I am no longer a businessman I can only assume there are some financial reasons the company needed to make this change. I also understand that when a company changes things, there are always a few who dont like the change. However, as a customer on the 24 month payment plan, I increased my purchase price and I was already looking at another commentary set I was planning on adding next year or so. Recently I called and I was going to add a $600 commentary set for a new sermon series I am starting but when I learned about the changes I ended up only purchasing about $200. If I could have added the $600 to my current plan (and kept it the same) I would have.
A few months age, before the change, I upgraded my package to a "diamond" package. To help lower my monthly cost, I added a few books I wanted in order to get into a longer plan and lower monthly bill. I ended up spending around $2000 with a 24 month plan. This was affordable for me! I do not remember putting any money down but I may have put a small amount. It was not 25% though. I think it was the first payment, not sure...
Now, if I wanted to do the same thing under the new plan, I would NOT have purchased such a large package. Beginning with the monthly plan. My monthly payment would have be higher which might (most likely) detoured me from purchasing the large purchase. Many people on payment plans make the decision based on the monthly amount. I know this from when I was a sales manager. Also, the 25% down payment can be an issues. If my purchase was $2000 then my down payment would be $500. There is no way I would have dropped $500 on this. I'm now just a poor small church pastor and $500 is a big deal. .
In the future, I will probably continue using the payment plans but I guarantee my purchases will be substantially smaller. I appreciate Logos/Faithlife and love their products. I am however a little disappointed in this change.
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I think the 25% down slams the door on the toes of many customers. I'd limit it to $100 if the customer has already established their consistent paying stature. This might not sit well with the accounting folks, but not everything is measurable by numbers alone. A lot of pastors and people in ministry get a very fixed amount for resources. They can make payments but not much more than that.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
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abondservant said:
So just to be clear.
Lets say a guy has 27 months left on his plan.
He adds the mega pack to his plan (call it 200$ for nice easy numbers).
He would have to pay 25% or 50$, and the payment plan length would shorten to 20 months?I'd like the answer to this as well. I have a 27-month payment plan. If I add anything to it, will it go down to 20?
Author of the Chronological Word Truth Life Bible Series
WordTruthLifeBible.com
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This will really impact my purchases as the entire reason I use the payment plans is that I generally can't afford to pay 10% of the plan a month, much less 25% up front.
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Justin McCleskey said:
This will really impact my purchases as the entire reason I use the payment plans is that I generally can't afford to pay 10% of the plan a month, much less 25% up front.
Let's suppose that you could afford 7% per month. Under the old rules, you could do a 15 month (or longer) payment plan and buy now. Under the new rules, you have to save for no more than four months and if you are making the same payment you will still be done 15 months from today.
Really, the changes should only delay customer spending, at most. Of course, many people say they will do more than that, and they probably will, given the partially irrational nature of most consumer spending, including my own. (Full disclosure: I have never had a payment plan and was not planning to start one any time soon even before the changes showed up.)
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Cynthia Tucker said:
I'd like the answer to this as well. I have a 27-month payment plan. If I add anything to it, will it go down to 20?
That is my understanding.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Where can I get details on how payment plans currently work. I am not on a plan now but want to purchase a number of items and I think a payment plan may be the best way to go.
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Michael Kinch said:
Where can I get details on how payment plans currently work.
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Super.Tramp said:Cynthia Tucker said:
I'd like the answer to this as well. I have a 27-month payment plan. If I add anything to it, will it go down to 20?
That is my understanding.
No, it will not go down to 20 months it stays the same since you're only adding to an existing P.P. Now, if it's a new one and you add to it, then the maximum time is 20 months. Glenn Airoldi said it, "The primary change allows the majority of our customers to add new purchases to their existing plans without having to reduce the length of their plan..." This is my real understanding
SuperTramp is wrong don't listen to him :P just kidding.0 -
Did Glenn not say "the majority of our customers" ? To my understanding that means a portion will have their plans reduced.
I think Glenn/Faithlife needs to answer this question.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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DAL said:
SuperTramp is wrong don't listen to him :P just kidding.
I just checked with Sales, I'm right. (not kidding [:P])
Now it's up to Glenn to prove me wrong.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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DAL said:Super.Tramp said:Cynthia Tucker said:
I'd like the answer to this as well. I have a 27-month payment plan. If I add anything to it, will it go down to 20?
That is my understanding.
No, it will not go down to 20 months it stays the same since you're only adding to an existing P.P. Now, if it's a new one and you add to it, then the maximum time is 20 months. Glenn Airoldi said it, "The primary change allows the majority of our customers to add new purchases to their existing plans without having to reduce the length of their plan..." This is my real understanding
SuperTramp is wrong don't listen to him :P just kidding.Im pretty sure Alabama is right here. The MAX for any payment plan is now 20 months. This means that trying to add on to a 24 month plan would be a bad deal, as your payments would go up considerably, even without adding much product, since the term would be reduced to 20 months.
Myke Harbuck
Lead Pastor, www.ByronCity.Church
Adjunct Professor, Georgia Military College0 -
When adding new purchases to an existing payment plan, or when combining payment plans, the resulting plan may not exceed 20 months.
Someone who has 17 months remaining on a payment plan can add new purchases and continue to pay at a new rate over the 17 months remaining. If the new purchase qualifies for more than 17 months, the resulting plan could grow to no more than 20 months.
Someone who has 21+ months remaining on a payment plan has the option to add new purchases to this plan, but the resulting plan will be capped at 20 months and the individual monthly payments adjusted accordingly.
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Super.Tramp said:DAL said:
SuperTramp is wrong don't listen to him :P just kidding.
I just checked with Sales, I'm right. (not kidding
)Now it's up to Glenn to prove me wrong.
Well that sucks! I guess logos staff needs a serious course on communication skills. To me the expression, "WITHOUT HAVING TO REDUCE the length of their plan" does not mean it's going to get reduced. It's like they are always communicating things backwards. Anyway, it doesn't matter, the new changes don't affect me as much as others so it's OK I guess if they want to say "I know this is what it says, but this is what it means..." it's fine I already got most of what I wanted before the changes took place. And in the end (if you think about it in a positive way) it keeps people from overspending money that they don't have. It's not personal people it's just business
Blessings!
DAL
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Initially I thought that this change was a sad situation for my plans to continue upgrading. I started out with the Silver program and have faithfully upgraded as funds permitted. I am now at Diamond and had plans to upgrade to Portfolio as a Christmas gift to myself. This new payment plan down payment has put a slight delay to that idea. With my discretionary finances stretched during Christmas and this new policy, I will need a couple of months to save for the next upgrade.
It took a bit of research thru these forums to get a handle on what was happening and to see that it was for the good of the business and my investment that these changes were made. Communicating these facts from the outset would have put my fears to rest. Possibly hiring a communications director or policy change that all material changes are fully vetted and prepared communications in place well advance of the launch.
While there might be a drop initially in new purchases of the base packages and larger purchases, the new cash flow model will ensure that Faith Life remains financially strong and stable as a company. As an "investor/customer" I appreciate that!
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I don't understand why this change is so controversial. It limits us from spending money we don't have while also strengthening Faithlife as a company.
Let me give you a real world example in a way FL can't. A few years back I was paying off my outstanding balance and a FL employee got my account mixed up with someone else's. Here's what was sent to me: "If I am understanding correctly, you would like to make your past due $525 payment and a $600 payment today. Then we would have your payment plan resume on 8/6 at the newer rate of $511.05 for 43 more months."
Somebody out there had over $20,000 in payment plans with Logos. Over due at that. That's unsustainable, both for FL as a company and for the person too. Something has to give.
I think the current payment plans and 25% downpayment are very reasonable. They force us to be more mindful of our purchases and better stewards of our finances. Its not bad that we may have to save up on our own to get the collections we want. This is a good thing to do!
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Greg Masone said:
They force us to be more mindful of our purchases and better stewards of our finances. Its not bad that we may have to save up on our own to get the collections we want. This is a good thing to do!
A thousand times yes.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Thanks for this Statement Greg !!
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Greg Masone said:
I don't understand why this change is so controversial.
Greg, this is very well-stated.
I've often considered writing something like this, but every time I tried, it was worded in such a way that I thought some would be personally offended. So I backed off and didn't post. You've managed to put it in a perspective that makes it clear without seeming to be attacking anyone.
I really appreciate the way you've done this.
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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I am finding these Forums to be quite informative. I especially appreciate Bob's posts in explaining Faith Life recent policy decisions. He has given me the confidence to continue investing in Faith Life's fine products and make any necessary adjustments to my discretionary finances so that I can also manage the new down payments in the Plans. The business decision explanations make sense and are prudent for a healthy company and a long term future for the company and our investments. All of this and more has encouraged me to keep upgrading as I had planned. I am thankful for Bob and his team doing what they need to do.
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The 25% payment plans stop a lot of responsible people from being able to purchase needed upgrades.. there are other ways to stop abuse of the payment plan system then this.. so those of us working in smaller "sized" ministries will now simply not be able to do what we've been doing over the last 15 plus years..
Nathan Madison
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Greg Masone said:
Somebody out there had over $20,000 in payment plans with Logos.
YIKES!!! I cannot imagine having that much owing to FL....
-Dan
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Nathan Madison said:
The 25% payment plans stop a lot of responsible people from being able to purchase needed upgrades..
25% up to a maximum of $500 is a barrier but not too high of one....
-Dan
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Nathan Madison said:
The 25% payment plans stop a lot of responsible people from being able to purchase needed upgrades.
Not if they save money up front to cover the 25% ... like one does for houses and cars (at least back in the dark ages). Yes it does serve as a deterrent for impulse buying which Faithlife's sales encourage but ...
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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thanks for the quick strike dark ages comment.... [:O] but after looking at the proposed plan if you are making an additional purchase adding to a current payment plan then this step is a good move.. for instance when i make purchases i complete one plan before i start another... the 25% is also being applied to new purchase/ new payments plans not just those adding additional payment plans on top of payment plans they currently have..MJ. Smith said:Nathan Madison said:The 25% payment plans stop a lot of responsible people from being able to purchase needed upgrades.
Not if they save money up front to cover the 25% ... like one does for houses and cars (at least back in the dark ages). Yes it does serve as a deterrent for impulse buying which Faithlife's sales encourage but ...
Nathan Madison
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