Linux version of Logos Bible Software

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Posts 1077
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 7 2020 10:57 AM

Kevin Moore:
I gave Daniel's AppImage script a try using Option 1 (running Linux Mint 20 XFCE). It fails when it tries to run the Logos Installer - warning that it can't find .NET.

That option is usually pretty stable... I'm surprised. It would be very helpful if we could get the terminal output... could you share it on the https://t.me/linux_logos telegram group? My guess is there is likely a dependency that wine needed which wasn't there and so caused the .net install to fail. You should cancel mono installation.

I suggest trying to install wine from winehq with --install-recommends. Then try again with option 1.

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 17
Kevin Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 7 2020 11:29 AM

Thanks for the quick reply. I'll need to try later - looks like we're facing a fire evacuation around here so I'll need to go offline very soon.

Posts 683
Frank Sauer | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 7 2020 11:50 AM

Kevin Moore:

Thanks for the quick reply. I'll need to try later - looks like we're facing a fire evacuation around here so I'll need to go offline very soon.

Kevin,

In relation to your crash when accessing the Library. If you want to give it another shot before doing a full reinstall...

Check the following folders:

BibleIndex

LibraryIndex

PersonalBookIndex

Those three folders should have 9 files in them if it is a full and clean index. (It can have more that are listed as supplemental)

The next folder, would be:

LibraryCatalog

This folder should have 8 files.

I have noticed many instances of indexer problems or crashes like what it sounds that you are describing can be fixed by emptying those folders and allowing Logos to do a full cataloging of the resources and a full indexing. (That is the case on both Linux and Windows)

Posts 55
Daniel Ribeiro da Silva | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 8 2020 2:46 AM

Kevin Moore:

Hi. I gave Daniel's AppImage script a try using Option 1 (running Linux Mint 20 XFCE). It fails when it tries to run the Logos Installer - warning that it can't find .NET. I tried again allowing it to download and install MONO in case that might change something but it still fails.

My working Wasta-Wine installation has been  fine until I foolishly agreed to allow it to install some updates last week. Now it runs okay, but crashes when I try to access the Library. Does anyone have suggestions to fix that or do I need to reinstall?

Sorry for this.
In your installation of wasta-wine, if you want, run (you can make a backup of your WINEPREFIX directory before it, so you can copy it back in case of fail):

For the 32-bit version:

WINEPREFIX=$HOME/.wine-logos/ wine control

or for the 64-bit version:

WINEPREFIX=$HOME/.wine-logos/ wine64 control

Then go to "Add and Remove Programs", remove LogosBible and use the Install button (which is on the same screen) to install a new version of LogosBible (Logos-x86.msi or Logos-x64.msi) directly (without having to reinstall wine or dotnet, or change your installation).

Posts 17
Kevin Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 12 2020 5:33 PM

I followed the suggestions in Frank Sauer's post:

Check the following folders:

BibleIndex

LibraryIndex

PersonalBookIndex

Those three folders should have 9 files in them if it is a full and clean index. (It can have more that are listed as supplemental)

The next folder, would be:

LibraryCatalog

This folder should have 8 files.

I have noticed many instances of indexer problems or crashes like what it sounds that you are describing can be fixed by emptying those folders and allowing Logos to do a full cataloging of the resources and a full indexing. (That is the case on both Linux and Windows)

This did the trick. I deleted the contents of these folders (backed them up first) then restarted Logos and let it run the indexer without interruption. Everything seems fine now.

Posts 3
aaylnx | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 16 2020 9:00 AM

Glad to hear it's working!

Posts 10
Purist | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 17 2020 10:41 AM

Logos was working perfectly until today. I lost some resources I had access to as a student, purchased a collection, and began the download. Closed the program mid-download. Now on start it begins to open the program, but shows an error and won't finish startup. Error details: "Unhandled exception: page fault on execute access to 0x00000000 in 32-bit code (0x00000000)."

Full backtrace: 5672.Logos8-backtrace.txt

How can I restore my formerly working Logos installation?

Posts 2633
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 17 2020 3:09 PM

Purist:

Logos was working perfectly until today. 

I can not help but if you tell us what system you are on, version of Linux and other details those that can help will not need to ask for that information as you will already have provided it.  And welcome to the forums.

Posts 10
Purist | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 17 2020 3:20 PM

Thanks David,

System is elementaryOS Hera (i.e. 18.04). Running on ASUS Zenbook 2-in-1 with MX150 GPU. I followed the shared Google Doc in this forum for install. I would be tempted to uninstall and reinstall, but I don't really know how to to that either!

Posts 683
Frank Sauer | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 17 2020 3:37 PM

You can try the instructions I posted above. It has fixed similar issues.

Posts 10
Purist | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 17 2020 3:53 PM

Thank you. I found the files in /.wine-logos/drive_c/users/username/Local Settings/Application Data/Logos/Data/xxxxxxxx.nkd. Logos is open and running without errors. Hopefully after a full sync all will be restored!

Posts 7
Loye Young | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 28 2020 12:33 PM

I have been able to get Logos 8 (Windows) running on Fedora Linux, using Wine, in 64 bit.

<rant>
The developers of Logos 8 need not be afraid of supporting Linux users on Wine, or even distributing Logos 8 packaged to run on Linux natively. (.NET code can run on Mono natively, with full Microsoft support.)

There is nothing about Linux that prevents installation and use of proprietary software. There is absolutely no requirement for source code to be available for every program on a Linux machine. The owner of the machine can, if desired, install a proprietary binary blob of code, without any technical or legal prohibition or impediment. It is up to the owner of the machine to decide. (That's called "freedom.")
</rant>

The following is merely the bare outline of what I did. I'm not attempting to give a detailed "How To" article. (Also, I probably will not answer  questions or help with your installation.)

System:
Fedora release 32 (Thirty Two)
wine-5.17 (Staging)
winetricks-20200412-1
Processor Information
    Socket Designation: SOCKET 0
    Type: Central Processor
    Family: Core i5
    Manufacturer: Intel
    Version: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4200M CPU @ 2.50GHz
    Voltage: 1.2 V
    External Clock: 100 MHz
    Max Speed: 2500 MHz
    Current Speed: 2500 MHz
    Core Count: 2
    Core Enabled: 2
    Thread Count: 4
    Characteristics:
        64-bit capable

Comments:

1.  I used Winetricks to install Microsoft's .NET 4.7.2 and 4.8, after a failed attempt to install. (I had set the wineprefix to Windows 10, using the graphical "Wine Configuration" tool.)

    1. Run Winetricks from the command line, which will give you great visibility into what's going on under the hood. There are a lot of "fixme" and similar comments, but almost all of them are not going to get in the way of running Logos (even if they sound scary).
    2. Ignore the pop-ups and warnings that complain about 64 bit and Mono not being present. If it says "Mono is not present", that is a Good Thing, because it's trying to remove Mono, which is for running .NET natively on Linux and conflicts with the Wine installation of MS .NET (even though MS is the sponsor of Mono).
    3. Winetricks will install earlier versions of .NET. I'm not sure if they are required, but I figure the developer had some reason to install them, so let it do what it did.
    4. .NET graphical installers will open from time to time. They will complain about not finding an installer program and warn you of mysterious and unstated problems in the future. Ignore and click "Continue". (The Wine peeps fixed that problem a few years ago.)
    5. After installing each .NET package, .NET will say you need to reboot. In this situation, that does not mean reboot your machine. it just needs to restart the wineserver. Click the reboot button in the .NET graphical. (I think "Reboot Now" is what it's called, but my memory might be wrong.)
    6. After the .NET graphical finishes, the command line will say something like "Running wineserver -w, which will hang until . . . . " Open another command line session and run "wineserver -k", which will kill the extraneous processes and Winetricks will move on.
    7. Have patience.

2. Likewise, I installed Logos from the command line: "wine [path\to\LogosSetup.exe]"

  1. As mentioned above, I had previously configured the wineprefix to run as Windows 10 (which Faithlife says is a minimum), but somewhere along the way, Winetricks seems to have changed the setting to Windows 7. Logos doesn't complain. (I wonder if the attempted installation of Logos before installing .NET might work better, but since my installation is working, I'm not going to try to figure it out.)
  2. My implementation of Wine requires the use of back-slashes, in the style of Microsoft. [shrug]
  3. Wine installed the program at ".\.wine\drive_c\users\[username]\Local Settings\Application Data\Logos\Logos.exe" Such location seems odd to me, but perhaps Windows these days installs programs there. Or perhaps the Faithlife peeps put it there to prevent others on the machine or network from running Logos without paying for another license. They gotta make a living, and as the Apostle said, "Don't muzzle an ox when he is treading."

3.  If Logos fails to start from the desktop or your Wine menu, or starts and then immediately closes, run Logos from the command line and look at the command line output for debugging information. If that doesn't work for you, try running in a Virtual Machine, or maybe consider whether your kung-fu level is ready for Logos-on-Linux. (I watched Kung Fu Panda last night. Great flick.)

4.  When running a program designed for Windows, the program may in fact perform like it does on a Windows machine, to wit: needless CPU activity, bloated RAM, and lots of disc activity, all of which make for poor performance. YMMV, depending on how fast your machine is. Mine is old (circa 2014) and slow, so I get what I get. I need to buy a new rig anyway, so that will probably help.

    1. The first time you fire up Logos, it will need to download and index the data files. The download is not horrible, but the indexing is very painful. The indexing is greedy for CPU (every CPU core and thread was at 100%) and disc IO. Just be patient and let it run overnight. Fortunately, I have an SSD, which makes the disk I/O much faster.
    2. 8GB of RAM is not enough, even without indexing going on. When running Linux natively, 8GB is plenty, so I didn't even have a swap partition. But performance tanked when running Logos 8, so I added a swap partition of 8GB, which made a big difference. I set system swappiness at 20. (Google "linux swappiness"). Probably would have been better to do that before installing.

Good luck.

Happy Trails,

Loye W. Young, OP, JD

Posts 7516
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 29 2020 2:31 AM

I’m not familiar with Linux, but why go through all this trouble.  Why not get a windows specifically for Logos? Not many people use Linux based on the posts here.

DAL

Posts 7
Loye Young | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 29 2020 6:44 AM

>why go through all this trouble.

Because Linux is so much less trouble to use. It Just Works. Essentially, I am willing to trade the inconvenience of an awkward installation procedure for a lifetime of smooth operating.

Further, Linux is significantly more secure, faster, and easier to maintain. If you've never used anything but Windows, you simply don't know how much pain you put up with every day. (My wife uses for remote work a Windows computer that her employer issues her. It is a constant hassle to mess with and wastes hours of time.)

In my particular situation, I live in Dominic, Texas, three miles down a dirt road. (Yes, the Stars at Night really are Big and Bright Deep in the Heart of Texas.) My two choices for Internet access are a 3Mbit/s DSL connection or an 8Mbit/s satellite Internet connection (which is what I use). Linux conserves bandwidth significantly and makes troubleshooting and fixing spotty connections much easier.

I'll stipulate that performance issues for me are partly because I have an old rig, but I just don't need a newer computer if I'm running Linux because Linux is so much more efficient. (I'm thinking about the shiny new ThinkPad from Lenovo, which comes with Fedora Linux pre-installed.)

>a windows specifically for Logos

Yes, I could install a virtual machine of Windows to run on my Linux rig. And Windows does run faster and more smoothly as a VM on Linux than on bare metal.

But that's just another layer of administration I'd have to mess with. The installation and maintenance of the VM would be much more hassle than the Wine installation.

Economics are never not an issue. A permanent installation of Windows as a VM requires paying a license fee to Microsoft, and I just don't want to spend the money on something that is so unstable and insecure.

>Not many people use Linux

As a former computer engineer myself, I've heard that argument before. It turns out to be a red herring. Well-written code is easily ported to Linux, and Linux users almost never need, expect, or even want specialized support for Linux. The problems happen when the program has issues on its own target platform. Programs that don't run well on Linux (and other *nix-like operating systems) also don't run well on their own native platform. Linux is much less lenient about sloppy code, which is one reason why it runs so much better. Thus, Linux simply exposes problems that already exist. A developer who ensures that Logos runs smoothly on Wine will necessarily write better code for Windows-native installations.

My case is instructive. By running Logos in Wine from a command line, I can see if Logos issues deprecated system calls or has other bit-rot problems, even without looking at the Logos source code directly.

Happy Trails,

Loye W. Young, OP, JD

Posts 1077
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 29 2020 8:14 AM

I think its a good idea if we have an update on the state of progress.

Faithlife have been quite supportive behind the scenes - I for one am very grateful. They are a tremendous company! I don't expect Faithlife to be advertising Logos for Linux or offering formal support any time soon. If there is an explosion of growth in the linux desktop market share then maybe;)

Development and bugfixing efforts are being worked on very actively. A group of us use telegram https://t.me/linux_logos and the wine app db as well as bugzilla to keep track of progress. The app db has full install instructions. Do join in the effort! Logos now regularly features in the wine release notes. It is particularly helpful if people sign in to the app db and vote for Logos.

The wine devs are very helpful and several have now contributed new code to get Logos working. Together we've worked through quite a lot of bug reports and fixes to get to where we are at.  We can estimate the Logos Linux userbase by tracking package downloads etc in the hundreds but not thousands of users.

What works? In 32bit, most features of Logos work well and a lot of people are using it as their 'stable' system.

Significant issues are being worked on:

  • Video and Audio resources don't play (use webapp instead). I expect that video will work very soon as a talented developer is working on it!
  • Printing is done by exporting to word doc first. (Personally I don't ever print from Logos anyway)
  • There is no text to speech. (Perhaps few people will care but I like that feature a lot)
  • Sometimes running an update erases downloaded resources. (Move data folders before updating, then restore, Daniel explains how to do this in his docs)
  • 64 bit has been troubled by various bugs (even still some people use it without much hassle) but several key bugs have been fixed in the last week, and soon we will be able to say that 64bit is stable.

The easiest way for most people to get started with Logos on Linux is using Daniel's script. https://github.com/ferion11/LogosLinuxInstaller Rik's packages are still good too https://launchpad.net/~wasta-linux/+archive/ubuntu/logos/

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 134
Paul Unger | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 29 2020 9:34 AM

Hey DAL,

Have you ever used Linux? If not, why not make a bootable flash drive and take it for a spin? You'll probably be pleasantly surprised. And, what's more, all that computing niceness is free--free in terms of dollars, and free in other senses as well. Like "free from the mothership" (see, for example, https://www.howtogeek.com/224616/30-ways-windows-10-phones-home/). And "free to configure". "Free from issues"? No, but then nothing is. I've run numerous versions of Windows (since 3.0), and have had to work through my share of issues... :-\

As for "not many people use Linux based on the posts here," there are over 50 pages of posts here. Surely that's some indication of the idea's popularity? Then there's the "uservoice" feature requests (logos.uservoice.com). There was a request with 388 votes to run Logos 4 & 5 on Linux before it was "declined", and a new one to run Logos 8 on Linux with 83 votes. Add those together and that makes it a solid "top 10" feature request.

Be that as it may, those of us who have benefited from the tireless work of the developers who have made this possible are VERY grateful! Celebrate with us. ;-)

Posts 134
Paul Unger | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 29 2020 9:58 AM

I have been running Logos using Rik's installation method. It has worked well, but it doesn't update... (currently running 8.8 SR-1). I've seen a few times recently that Daniel's script is the recommended method. How do I go about running that? Do I have to uninstall "Rik's" before I install "Daniel's"? I have copies of all my index folders, so I'm happy to uninstall and start fresh. Just not sure how to... Advice?

Posts 55
Daniel Ribeiro da Silva | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 29 2020 10:28 AM

Paul Unger:

I have been running Logos using Rik's installation method. It has worked well, but it doesn't update... (currently running 8.8 SR-1). I've seen a few times recently that Daniel's script is the recommended method. How do I go about running that? Do I have to uninstall "Rik's" before I install "Daniel's"? I have copies of all my index folders, so I'm happy to uninstall and start fresh. Just not sure how to... Advice?

My recommendation is to continue using what is working. The installation script I made, creates independent installations (portable kind) that are useful for testing (as it doesn't affect your current installation). But it's still far from perfect. I had to create a "fast" version for workaround some bugs, and that can work better than the normal version. I'm still having issues with several bugs. What I can say is that we are progressing little by little (baby steps for long walks).

I myself am still not very confident to recommend the installation done with the script I did (I still prefer Rik's one), except for testing. Well, to be fair, there are several people using it as their main installation, including myself. And my hope is that the solution will become more self-sustainable over time.

Posts 16
Kathleen Marie | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 29 2020 5:47 PM

Now might not be a good time for people to attempt to switch to Linux. There are some kernel problems and behind the scenes stuff going on, that makes it impossible for some people to keep their system running properly. I had to give up and put Windows on my HP stream if I wanted to get anything done right now.

What I will do in the future remains to be seen. I certainly didn't expect to ever put windows back on this toy.

Posts 7
Loye Young | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 29 2020 10:17 PM

>Now might not be a good time for people to attempt to switch to Linux.

The conversation topic is not about switching anyone's operating system.

The topic is about installing and running Logos on Linux.

From time to time, the question arises about why one would want to run Logos on Linux, which elicits a response that runs something lke of "Because Linux is awesome." To which, someone else says "No one uses Linux" or "Linux sucks". Flame war ensues. Sooner or later, the name of Hitler is used.

The topic is about installing and running Logos on Linux.. Cat skinning being done in many ways, various methods of installation have been attempted and documented. Over time, everyone is having greater success. The current state of running Logos on Linux is very good. There is cause for rejoicing. Sooner or later, the word "Hallelujah" will be written.

The topic is about installing and running Logos on Linux

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