Linux version of Logos Bible Software

Once again, I am pushing foward for a Linux version of Logos, a lot of user are using Linux, and we have been struggling to break away from Windows, but Logos has always been the single software that require us to either dual boot or run a virtual machine with Linux OS.

Anyone share the same view?

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777

Yes, I agree 100%. I LOVE the Linux operating system and there are some really hard working people writing Bible study software for Linux, but it's not Logos. I have a lot of Logos unlocks and the ONLY reason I run any Windows at all is for Logos. I really wish that Logos had a reader for Linux that worked just like the Windows version does. I keep dumping Windows for months at a time or resort to running Windows 2000 under VirtualBox so I can run Logos. If Logos had a Linux front end, then I could toss Windows forever. I just bought a new XP license yesterday to run LOGOS on machine with no XP license. That's loot that I could have spent on LOGOS BOOKS. And I really oftentimes find myself in a position wherein I do NOT want to buy anymore Logos products because they won't run on MY operating system. They run on Bill's operating system.

I sort of get the feeling that Logos, the company and it's personnel, either think Linux is some weird hacker OS where nobody buys anything or they're afraid that Linux users are too small in number to justify writing a front end just for them. So, write one in Java. It certainly can't be any slower than the Windows front end is already. If they did it in Java, then they only need one front end for Mac, Linux, and Windows. Uhhhh.? It's not like they can't afford to write new code. The reader can't be rocket science inside.

I think the next time I get ticked at WIndows for anything and flush the install, I'll probably join up with one of the opensource Linux Bible software groups and help them by doing what I can to get better Linux Bible software. It seems like Logos has decided that Linux is not their market and Windows/Mac is. What's crazy is that the Mac front end should probably be breeze-city to port to Linux unless they used assembler to code it. Lol - I doubt it. [:D]

When the Linux Bible software gets "good enough", then Logos is going to see they waited too long. Linux is FREE. You don't have to enter codes to install it. You can install it 10 times before lunch without having to call Bangladesh to get the OK to install it the 11th time because the video driver that you just downloaded from Windows update killed your install. Just because the operating system is free doesn't mean you can't SELL software for it. Nero sells burning software for Linux.

I need to finish this post so I can go buy some antivirus software for this new XP install. That's MORE loot I can't use to unlock Logos books. Then I'll need to buy a registry cleaner and a disk optimizer and various other doo-dads that WIndows requires to keep it all from coming unglued... but I won't be using that ca$h to buy LOGOS products. I'd rather run Linux and send LOGOS all my money.

And they lived happily ever after. The end.

Donovan R. Palmer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/778#Comment_778

I sort of get the feeling that Logos, the company and it's personnel, either think Linux is some weird hacker OS where nobody buys anything or they're afraid that Linux users are too small in number to justify writing a front end just for them. So, write one in Java. It certainly can't be any slower than the Windows front end is already. If they did it in Java, then they only need one front end for Mac, Linux, and Windows. Uhhhh.? It's not like they can't afford to write new code. The reader can't be rocket science inside.

I have read in a number of places that Mac is about 10% of the market share and Linux is 1%.You can look at this website to dig around for what you want: http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=8 Of course this does not take into account demographics. For example, we know that amongst youth and students Macs are more common than opposed to enterprise situations. I work with young people and it seems that they all have or want to have a Mac. I think Logos is very smart getting into the Mac market because tomorrow's Bible scholars are amongst today's young people.

After 12+ years of Windows, I moved to the Mac platform because it is based on BSD Unix. The last thing I was holding out for was a Mac version of Logos, so I empathize with your comments. So since I like BSD, for similar reasons I like Linux (though I prefer FreeBSD over Linux) I suspect the market gurus at Logos would do a Linux version if they could figure out how to make money at it. As a Mac user, it has taken forever to get the Mac version out and understandably so at version 1.1.x, it is nothing like the Windows version. From a casual observation, it is hard to see how Logos is going to develop any time soon a Linux version unless they have a few secrets (and a truck load of cash) up their sleeves.

As far as using Java, I would have to say that I have yet to use a Java built application that I really, really liked. This is subjective, but it seems that by using Java there are certain compromises to really integrating into the host system. I could be wrong about this, but that is my impression. So personally, I hope they don't turn to Java.

All this said, I do like Linux and have used it extensively. My favourite distro is SUSE, but have many friends that swear by the Debian based ubuntu. If Windows 7 turns out to be another bomb, I kind of expect that we will see more users defect to Mac and Linux, and if that happens, the market share of Linux may get on the radar of the Logos business plan.

777

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/786#Comment_786

I have read in a number of places that Mac is about 10% of the market share and Linux is 1%.You can look at this website to dig around for what you want: http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=8 Of course this does not take into account demographics. For example, we know that amongst youth and students Macs are more common than opposed to enterprise situations. I work with young people and it seems that they all have or want to have a Mac. I think Logos is very smart getting into the Mac market because tomorrow's Bible scholars are amongst today's young people.

After 12+ years of Windows, I moved to the Mac platform because it is based on BSD Unix. The last thing I was holding out for was a Mac version of Logos, so I empathize with your comments. So since I like BSD, for similar reasons I like Linux (though I prefer FreeBSD over Linux) I suspect the market gurus at Logos would do a Linux version if they could figure out how to make money at it. As a Mac user, it has taken forever to get the Mac version out and understandably so at version 1.1.x, it is nothing like the Windows version. From a casual observation, it is hard to see how Logos is going to develop any time soon a Linux version unless they have a few secrets (and a truck load of cash) up their sleeves.

As far as using Java, I would have to say that I have yet to use a Java built application that I really, really liked. This is subjective, but it seems that by using Java there are certain compromises to really integrating into the host system. I could be wrong about this, but that is my impression. So personally, I hope they don't turn to Java.

All this said, I do like Linux and have used it extensively. My favourite distro is SUSE, but have many friends that swear by the Debian based ubuntu. If Windows 7 turns out to be another bomb, I kind of expect that we will see more users defect to Mac and Linux, and if that happens, the market share of Linux may get on the radar of the Logos business plan.

I ~almost~ bought a Mac, but if I had done that I'd have dumped Logos and bought Accordance... or at least I'd have shelved my Logos stuff until Logos had a way of using it on the Mac.

As far as Java goes, I feel as you do, but I also feel that a Java front end beats trying WINE every time a new version of WINE comes out just to see if Logos finally works with it. Maybe one of the folks at Logos could set up an Ubuntu box and try setting up Logos under WINE and see what is causing their software not to install and/or run correctly and CHANGE it. It's not like they have to buy Linux or WINE or anything.

In actuality, I'd prefer a BSD front end as well. I've been an active OpenBSD user for quite a few years now. Theo is quite an interesting personality. [:D]

So one can only hope that WIndows 7 bombs and Steve Ballmer goes into a chair throwing tirade... then perhaps we can get our Linux version. If the economy continues to stay in first gear Linux may get a boost as well.

I have my overbuilt XP box for the time being. Vista Business didn't ever ring my bell, so XP is going to have to do for now.

Steven Yu

Here are some of the linux user discussion in the Ubuntu forum

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=442973

Bob Pritchett

The decision is simply a business one; at this point we don't have any evidence that there's a significant market for a Linux version, which doesn't make the investment worth it. We don't have massive margins, and developing on a new platform costs a pretty large percentage of what developing on the first one costs; I imagine we'd need to see consumer (not server or business -- we don't sell there) marketshare for Linux reach 8% before we could justify the cost.

The easiest solution might be to get our software running through things like CrossOver:

http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name/?app_id=321

Steven Yu

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/991#Comment_991

The easiest solution might be to get our software running through things like CrossOver:

Agree, me and other linux user have been doing a lot of testing and debugging in both CrossOver and WINE to see if we can get ver 3 working, but so far nothing. NOt sure whether is the IE feature used in the logos, or some xmlt rendering issue.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/859#Comment_859

So one can only hope that WIndows 7 bombs and Steve Ballmer goes into a chair throwing tirade... then perhaps we can get our Linux version. If the economy continues to stay in first gear Linux may get a boost as well.

I have my overbuilt XP box for the time being. Vista Business didn't ever ring my bell, so XP is going to have to do for now.

Windows 7 is much better than Vista and close to XP in performance and resource needs, so it is not going to drive a move toward Linux! Neither will the economy provide a boost, except that Linux distros improve their installation and provide an overall interface that functions in ways similar to Windows! It seems to be getting there with Ubuntu.

Wes Saad

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/859#Comment_859

"If the economy continues to stay in first gear Linux may get a boost as well."

If the economy causes software markets to sour, Logos will likely feel the impact long before Microsoft.

777

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/991#Comment_991

The decision is simply a business one; at this point we don't have any evidence that there's a significant market for a Linux version, which doesn't make the investment worth it. We don't have massive margins, and developing on a new platform costs a pretty large percentage of what developing on the first one costs; I imagine we'd need to see consumer (not server or business -- we don't sell there) marketshare for Linux reach 8% before we could justify the cost.

The easiest solution might be to get our software running through things like CrossOver:

http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name/?app_id=321

And you have evidence that there are more Kindle users than Linux users? What market share does the Kindle have? What market share does the Kindle have amongst Logos employees? Likely more than the Logos employee Linux share, I'll bet.

[:D]

777

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1032#Comment_1032

And you have evidence that there are more Kindle users than Linux users? What market share does the Kindle have? What market share does the Kindle have amongst Logos employees? Likely more than the Logos employee Linux share, I'll bet.

Oh, lookie here: http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2007/11/linux-on-amazons-kindle-e-book-reader.ars

The Kindle runs LINUX. nice.

Colby E. Kinser

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/991#Comment_991

I would love to see a secure online version. That would work on ANY OS, and could be hardened to protect the licenses of the unlocked resources, which is where Logos' legimate money is. Or even have a small, easily-ported agent that runs on various OSes to protect the licenses, if necessary. The world is moving to the cloud, and bible.logos.com is a step in the right direction. You've obviously got the talent for usable web apps.

777

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1074#Comment_1074

I would love to see a secure online version. That would work on ANY OS, and could be hardened to protect the licenses of the unlocked resources, which is where Logos' legimate money is. Or even have a small, easily-ported agent that runs on various OSes to protect the licenses, if necessary. The world is moving to the cloud, and bible.logos.com is a step in the right direction. You've obviously got the talent for usable web apps.

Then Logos could just tie what you've unlocked to your online version account and they could handle license access all on their end. This would work in my case, but I'd rather have a native Linux version ~OR~ a Windows version that actually ran under Linux. This is a good idea - Logos could also sell SUBSCRIPTIONS on a timed basis and make money on this from folks that maybe don't want to sink a house payment into the Gold version but may want to try it for a while - sort of like renting Logos.

It'd be nice if Logos set up an Ubuntu machine and tried their own code under Linux to see how terrible it is to deal with rather than just sending us Linux folks that are already loyal PAYING customers off with a mention of codeweavers and a wave buh-bye. Maybe THEY could fix the offending part of their code (hey, they have access to it) and publish HOW THEY GOT IT TO INSTALL & RUN UNDER LINUX. I bet there's at least one geek in their programming department that could make short work of this and we could all move on... happily. Certainly Logos could score some geek credibility if they could muster up some old-school propeller-head search and fix "CAN-DO" type testing and programming.

Eh?

777

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1027#Comment_1027

Ubuntu is awesome. The folks at Canonical make the folks at Microsoft look like newbies at tweaking an operating system.

Bob Pritchett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1076#Comment_1076

It'd be nice if Logos set up an Ubuntu machine and tried their own code under Linux to see how terrible it is to deal with rather than just sending us Linux folks that are already loyal PAYING customers off with a mention of codeweavers and a wave buh-bye. Maybe THEY could fix the offending part of their code (hey, they have access to it) and publish HOW THEY GOT IT TO INSTALL & RUN UNDER LINUX.

But isn't the beauty of open source the fact that many eyes make all bugs shallow? I'm surprised that the community hasn't risen up and gotten WINE/CodeWeavers working for everything! :-)

Sorry, I couldn't help it... I don't know that we actually have that much deep Linux programming experience inhouse, and I also suspect that the problems relate more to our use of IE as a report display engine than to code we wrote. Add on to that the fact that we're working on a completely new platform for the next release, and investing our time in getting 3.x to work on Linux doesn't seem like a good investment.

777

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1519#Comment_1519

But isn't the beauty of open source the fact that many eyes make all bugs shallow? I'm surprised that the community hasn't risen up and gotten WINE/CodeWeavers working for everything! :-)

Sorry, I couldn't help it... I don't know that we actually have that much deep Linux programming experience inhouse, and I also suspect that the problems relate more to our use of IE as a report display engine than to code we wrote. Add on to that the fact that we're working on a completely new platform for the next release, and investing our time in getting 3.x to work on Linux doesn't seem like a good investment.

Yeah, but that only works if we have the source code. But I know that you know that. <SMILE>

I can appreciate your point on wanting to get the new platform done. Perhaps after that settles down you all can take a look in house with WINE and your source code and see if you can figure out how to make it fly for us Linux users. Hey, we LOVE Logos - we just don't care for Windows.

...Or, you can send me your source code and I'll take a look. LOL.

Steven Yu

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1781#Comment_1781

And if Logos ever need people to do beta test in WINE, Codeweaver or Linux, we are here to help! Without the sourcecode it is really hard for us to see what is going on in the background, we have report most of the error message we got to Wine and Codeweaver Application, but we just can't get enough of people to support our request for the program mers to look in to the application. :-(

Christopher S Macy

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1519#Comment_1519

I am a user using Windows 7 and Linux also I use to be a programmer for windows.

I say this because I have to agree with BP here. They would have to hire more programmers who had the skills needed in Linux programming to take on this task of getting Libronix 3.x working. Also, Libronix utalizes the IE rendering engine, last I checked Linux does not support IE and neither do Linux users.

Now I love Linux and would love to see Libronix running on it, but lets not be selfish. Linux users will ALWAYS be the minority in the OS realm. That is just a fact of life. Logos is a company who has to make a return in with their product otherwise we would not get any more version updates.

So asking for Libronix on Linux right now is a bit absurd.

Nigel Cunningham

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1519#Comment_1519

Hi Bob.

Another Linux user here (Libronix via VMWare).

If you used one of the GUI toolkits like QT that's crossplatform, perhaps that would help you a lot?

Regards,

Nigel (Logos/Libronix user since I started theological college in 1997)

777

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1788#Comment_1788

I am a user using Windows 7 and Linux also I use to be a programmer for windows.

I say this because I have to agree with BP here. They would have to hire more programmers who had the skills needed in Linux programming to take on this task of getting Libronix 3.x working. Also, Libronix utalizes the IE rendering engine, last I checked Linux does not support IE and neither do Linux users.

Now I love Linux and would love to see Libronix running on it, but lets not be selfish. Linux users will ALWAYS be the minority in the OS realm. That is just a fact of life. Logos is a company who has to make a return in with their product otherwise we would not get any more version updates.

So asking for Libronix on Linux right now is a bit absurd.

Ok. BTW, your avatar is absurd.

I used to code assembler for applications that I sold to the Canadian government. This project is not hard. It may not be easy, but it's not that hard. Logos is not too awfully far away from running under WINE and Logos could try it and see where it hiccups better than anybody else could.

Thanks for the wet blanket.

777

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1873#Comment_1873

Hi Bob.

Another Linux user here (Libronix via VMWare).

If you used one of the GUI toolkits like QT that's crossplatform, perhaps that would help you a lot?

Regards,

Nigel (Logos/Libronix user since I started theological college in 1997)

I like the way you think.

They could also try http://www.wxwidgets.org/ for cross-platform coding.

Christopher S Macy

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1884#Comment_1884

Lol, Mike, Bill the Cat is not absurd!

You are right, it would not be that hard to put logos onto Linux. However (in the voice of Snape), that would require programmers for Linux and as BP has pointed out they dont have them! So you want Logos to hire a few programers at about 50k per year each so 1% of their market can have Logos on Linux when we can use it via VMware?

Dont get me wrong, I would love it if Logos did put Libronix on Linux, but it just does not make sense for them to do that right now.

I dont want to discourge you all from advocating for this, but having both sides of the coin expressed is good.

777

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1889#Comment_1889

Lol, Mike, Bill the Cat is not absurd!

You are right, it would not be that hard to put logos onto Linux. However (in the voice of Snape), that would require programmers for Linux and as BP has pointed out they dont have them! So you want Logos to hire a few programers at about 50k per year each so 1% of their market can have Logos on Linux when we can use it via VMware?

Dont get me wrong, I would love it if Logos did put Libronix on Linux, but it just does not make sense for them to do that right now.

I dont want to discourge you all from advocating for this, but having both sides of the coin expressed is good.

Howdy Christopher!

It would require ZERO Linux programmers to set up an Ubuntu machine and install WINE. After that, all they need is to see why their WINDOWS code is not fully functioning under WINE. It may be as simple as needing one or two native DLLs installed in WINE to make it all work just dandy A-OK. Logos is in a far better place to figure this out than ANYONE because they have the source code and can identify the places and reasons that their Windows code hangs under WINE. It's not hard. It involves no Linux programming.

I'll agree that it would involve some work, but I don't think that anyone is going to break a nail or anything, so there's no need to concern ourselves with OSHA and there's no need to hire any Linux programmers. We're not writing any Linux code to get Windows code to run under WINE, are we? We may have to tweak our WINDOWS code a bit to get it to run under WINE, but we are not looking to change WINE code to get it to run, but rather possibly modifying our WINDOWS code to get it to run.

Logos has the "black box", since they have their source code.

Steven Yu

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1957#Comment_1957

Personally I would like to see Libronix rewritten in either JAVA (use JDM for text analysis) or MONO compatible dot net technologies; this will guarantee the compatibility issue once for all.

Bruce Fraser

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/778#Comment_778

So, write one in Java. It certainly can't be any slower than the Windows front end is already. If they did it in Java, then they only need one front end for Mac, Linux, and Windows. Uhhhh.? It's not like they can't afford to write new code. The reader can't be rocket science inside.

I'm not a computer programmer, so take this with a grain of salt... Your comment about writing a Bible study program "can't be rocket science" shows an abysmal lack of awareness about what it takes to design and write computer code. Yes, I would venture to say that the craft which goes into Logos / WordSearch / Accordance / etc. would be about the equivalent of programming the navigation system for a rocket.

777

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2001#Comment_2001

So, write one in Java. It certainly can't be any slower than the Windows front end is already. If they did it in Java, then they only need one front end for Mac, Linux, and Windows. Uhhhh.? It's not like they can't afford to write new code. The reader can't be rocket science inside.

I'm not a computer programmer, so take this with a grain of salt... Your comment about writing a Bible study program "can't be rocket science" shows an abysmal lack of awareness about what it takes to design and write computer code. Yes, I would venture to say that the craft which goes into Logos / WordSearch / Accordance / etc. would be about the equivalent of programming the navigation system for a rocket.

You're not a computer programmer, yet you're an expert.

You must be like the old guys that sit around at the park talking about how this ought to be done and how that ought to be done, yet none of these old guys has anything and never got anywhere in their life. Or, you might be a consultant.

Take this with a grain of salt.... why would I bother to listen to someone's opinion when that someone has no idea of what they're talking about? At least you're HONEST about it.

Thanks for the uninformed personal attack. Now get off my lawn.

[:O]

Steven Yu

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2089#Comment_2089

Ok, I think you two need to cool off a little bit. We don't want to have an argument here.

Right now I think its best for those who have technical background to continue testing Libronix under WINE and Codeweaver, and report all the finding on their application support knowledge base, or discussion forum, as well as sharing the finding to the software engineer in Logos. Make sure all the testing environment are well documented

As for the non technical personal, certainly raise your voice to Logos for a Linux version, and put down Linux version of Libronix on your pray list.

Currently the best solution of running Libronix is under a virtualization software like VMware, or VirtualBox, and a copy of Windows! Both of this software have excellent documentation on how to setup, if anyone need any help, please post here, I am more than happy to give a helping hand.

Colby E. Kinser

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2092#Comment_2092

Perhaps the Libronix folks would be willing to sign a non-disclosure with an experienced, trustworthy open source developer to do the Wine debugging with the Libronix source code. You retain the intellectual property, you don't incur extra expenses to Logos, and you get the Linux/Wine expertise.

I personally would be willing to join others in donating $50 each for the developer who gets Libronix 3.x to work well in Wine. I'd much rather put my money into that than in retaining a Windows license with every Linux installation. Libronix is the only reason I keep a Windows license, and in fact the only reason I run a VM.

Still more, I'd prefer a web-accessible way to access my Libronix resources.

Donovan R. Palmer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2106#Comment_2106

I personally would be willing to join others in donating $50 each for the developer who gets Libronix 3.x to work well in Wine. I'd much rather put my money into that than in retaining a Windows license with every Linux installation. Libronix is the only reason I keep a Windows license, and in fact the only reason I run a VM.

This sort of sounds like a good case for pre-pub for a wine version of Logos... interesting idea.

The trouble is how much will it cost to maintain or support it, particularly as new versions of Logos software come out. Presumably since Logos also relies on Internet Explorer, if IE is not part of the WINE stuff, this will also have to be developed, maintained with new versions and supported.

Dale Durnell, Retired UM Clergy

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1519#Comment_1519

I am reminded of a comment, years ago, by one of your competitors when asked why they didn't program for the Mac. His response was "we'd lose our shirts." When the next person asked why they didn't program for Linus, his response was "see above."

I have no desire for you to "lose your shirt" Bob, I'm too heavily invested in the Logos software to ever want to change to another program. I'm finally running a 64 bit Vista laptop with the LDLS installed (now that was a trick migrating over to that new OS).

As I'm also entrenched in the Windows arena and have no desire to move to another vehicle -- I would argue that you need to focus on 4.0, then bring the Mac version up to speed with that version.

Just my two cents from Eastern Oklahoma where I now make my home.

Dale

Brian Whalen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1519#Comment_1519

Trying to make money on Linux software is tough business, so many Linux users insist on free software, which presents a revenue problem for software developers, unless they charge heftily for support, or make money another way.

Floyd Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2089#Comment_2089

You must be like the old guys that sit around at the park talking about how this ought to be done and how that ought to be done, yet none of these old guys has anything and never got anywhere in their life. Or, you might be a consultant.

I am sorry, but I find that offensive. I spend half of my ministry working with "the old guys". They have got somewhere with there lives - they are smart, they are thinkers; but they have accomplished what they needed to accomplish. If you have an OSHER (http://www.osherfoundation.org/) program near you, visit one. These old guys are still studying (astronomy, biology, art, religion, writing, quantum mechanics, etc.) and they have accomplished quite a bit - in education, industry, and at home.

Our church's second service is at a senior living complex near where we are located - it is a blessing to minister to these people. They are often more excited about their faith than those in our regular morning service.

I praise the Lord for "the old guys" - they were responsible for bringing the faith to our generation -

Yours because His,

Floyd

PS Lest you think I am one of those "old guys" that knows nothing, be aware that I spent the greatest part of my career in the computer industry. I am not yet an "old guy" - but pastor a small church in upstate New York preaching the word of God regularly to our two congregations. I only have accomplished nothing when I compare myself to what God has accomplished in my life.

777

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2111#Comment_2111

Trying to make money on Linux software is tough business, so many Linux users insist on free software, which presents a revenue problem for software developers, unless they charge heftily for support, or make money another way.

Logos makes money on unlocks - not on their reader/search software.

777

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2112#Comment_2112

You must be like the old guys that sit around at the park talking about how this ought to be done and how that ought to be done, yet none of these old guys has anything and never got anywhere in their life. Or, you might be a consultant.

I am sorry, but I find that offensive. I spend half of my ministry working with "the old guys". They have got somewhere with there lives - they are smart, they are thinkers; but they have accomplished what they needed to accomplish. If you have an OSHER (http://www.osherfoundation.org/) program near you, visit one. These old guys are still studying (astronomy, biology, art, religion, writing, quantum mechanics, etc.) and they have accomplished quite a bit - in education, industry, and at home.

Our church's second service is at a senior living complex near where we are located - it is a blessing to minister to these people. They are often more excited about their faith than those in our regular morning service.

I praise the Lord for "the old guys" - they were responsible for bringing the faith to our generation -

Yours because His,

Floyd

PS Lest you think I am one of those "old guys" that knows nothing, be aware that I spent the greatest part of my career in the computer industry. I am not yet an "old guy" - but pastor a small church in upstate New York preaching the word of God regularly to our two congregations. I only have accomplished nothing when I compare myself to what God has accomplished in my life.

I'm sorry that you are offended, BUT if it's true, it's true. I have respect for older folks, but not necessarily older folks that are "experts" on everything yet never got anyplace in life. That doesn't mean that I have no compassion for them, it's just that I don't intend to take any advice from them.

If you were a young person starting in business would you go to the most successful businessperson around for advice, or would you go to the park and listen to the old guys that never got anyplace?

Try to rightly divide what someone is talking about and stay focused on what is being said. I did not compare the person that was trying to light a fire under my backside in a personal flame with every old person. You erroneously took it there. Go imagine that I said other things now.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2348#Comment_2348

Trying to make money on Linux software is tough business, so many Linux users insist on free software, which presents a revenue problem for software developers, unless they charge heftily for support, or make money another way.

Logos makes money on unlocks - not on their reader/search software.

In one sense this is the chicken and egg situation since one is useless without the other. Since, however, Logos' income is tied to the sale of resources, extra expense in the development of a marginal OS is likely to be down the drain.

Floyd Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2349#Comment_2349

or would you go to the park and listen to the old guys that never got anyplace?

Your continued insults tell me more about you, than about them. End of discussion!!

Floyd

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2363#Comment_2363

or would you go to the park and listen to the old guys that never got anyplace?

Your continued insults tell me more about you, than about them. End of discussion!!

Floyd

Peace, Floyd. I think the two of you are talking about different groups. You are thinking of retired persons in retirement homes while he is thinking more of homeless persons who never retired because they never really did anything.

Andrew J. Allcock

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2371#Comment_2371

Erm...Is it time to think about possible reasons behind the question?

1) As a minister I have been using the Logos Scholar's Library for a number of years and find that it has been a superb investment. I want to continue to benefit from that investment.

2) Here in the UK a high proportion of Christians in ministry are ditching or have already ditched Windows for moral as well as technical reasons - I would suspect that the proportions of Christians (core market for Logos?) using non-Windows operating systems is higher than the general statistics might suggest. I use Ubuntu Linux and only keep Windows at all for occasional use.

3) ESword is free and has an expanding library and has tempted more than one of my colleagues in ministry away from Logos. GnomeSword is the Ubuntu version of ESword. ESword also has a platform-neutral online version.

Logos cannot afford to ignore Linux any longer.

Andrew

Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2489#Comment_2489

Logos cannot afford to ignore Linux any longer.

I am not an expert in the ins and outs of business decisions, but I do hope Logos is following this discussion, because I believe, Andrew, you have a good point. In Poland where we have lived the past 12 years, I also have seen many many ditch MS in favor of open source. These times make me harp back to the olden days when Logos was competing with others such as STEP and Bible Companion etc. And Logos won out because of wise decision making. I think others did not see what was coming on the horizon and lost the market and in some cases, even folded.

Logos has a superior product. But in a world of fast changing technology, a company on top could find its way on the bottom very quickly. And none of us with our investment in Libronix, want to see that.

It will be of no surprise to me at all if in the future, open source is more popular than MS. It all depends on decisions MS makes. But most of the world outside North America seem to be moving towards open source. Here in the USA, there seems to be much talk of moving towards cloud computing. I still dont see it being popular around the globe. Cloud computing means people in the Mid East who want to access Libronix on line may have extreme difficulty. People in China or Burma or other places...even in poorer regions where there is no cloud...the market for Logos would either disappear or never develop.

Donovan R. Palmer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2489#Comment_2489

Logos cannot afford to ignore Linux any longer.

Can you give more than anecdotal evidence? The trouble is, most of the surveys out there put the Linux userbase in general at 1% worldwide. It might even be less if only Christian users is taken into account. It might be higher or lower in the UK. Then whatever this Christian user base is, a smaller percentage would ever consider buying Logos Bible software.

Even at 1%, the question is can Logos even break even on the development of a Linux version of its software with that small of a market. If it can't, then it will have to subsidize it. I would assume this is the case and is why Logos appears to be ignoring it. (purely speculation)

FWIW, the same reports put the Mac userbase at 10% and the Windows user base at 90%.

Bob Pritchett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2489#Comment_2489

Logos cannot afford to ignore Linux any longer.

If this were provably true -- with market share stats -- we'd be there. However I've got the real numbers on what it cost to get our software on the Mac, and what kind of sales that generated. I'm pretty sure that the Linux market is smaller than the Mac market, and if it's even a bit smaller (and I suspect it's 1/5th to 1/10th the size), then the numbers don't work.

I don't want to leave anyone out in the cold, but we need to do projects that make sense financially. I think we'll eventually have some level of support for a wider variety of operating systems, but probalby through the web. http://bible.logos.com and http://books.logos.com are examples of web delivery running on our underlying technology, and available to Win/Mac/Linux/whatever users. These types of solution will pencil out financially before a full port to Linux.

(Conceivably, we could deliver some richer experience through Moonlight, since we'll be using .NET technology moving forward. We'll have to see.)

Jim Dean

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2501#Comment_2501

I was not aware of these sites ... maybe you should consider sending an email out to your customers about them.

Is there any way to set up preferences the Bible site, re translations to have at the top?

I trust that you are heading for something that is as functional re orig lang's as blueletterbible.

It would be great to see Logos establish a big "footprint" in the free-web arena, esp re lexical and morphological aids.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2489#Comment_2489

2) Here in the UK a high proportion of Christians in ministry are ditching or have already ditched Windows for moral as well as technical reasons - I would suspect that the proportions of Christians (core market for Logos?) using non-Windows operating systems is higher than the general statistics might suggest. I use Ubuntu Linux and only keep Windows at all for occasional use

You have arroused my curiosity. I know that many seem to be opposed to Microsoft for various reasons. I think mostly envy of their success might be the biggest reason. I don't recall ever hearing anyone say that they objected to Microsoft on moral grounds. What might those be?

Andrew J. Allcock

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2509#Comment_2509

Trying not to drift off-topic but you did ask a direct question...

2) Here in the UK a high proportion of Christians in ministry are ditching or have already ditched Windows for moral as well as technical reasons - I would suspect that the proportions of Christians (core market for Logos?) using non-Windows operating systems is higher than the general statistics might suggest. I use Ubuntu Linux and only keep Windows at all for occasional use

You have arroused my curiosity. I know that many seem to be opposed to Microsoft for various reasons. I think mostly envy of their success might be the biggest reason. I don't recall ever hearing anyone say that they objected to Microsoft on moral grounds. What might those be?

OK , my assertions are based on anecdote - and without a comprehensive survey might prove to be unsustainable - but are what I have come to believe from the evidence of my own experience and conversations.

1) Numbers: Out of my current team ministry of three, two of us do not use Windows as our main OS; In the leadership of the church I left at the end of 2008 two out of six in leadership did not use Windows as their main OS; my former theological college is entirely Mac.

2) Reasons: many and varied I'm sure and would open a whole can of worms. For myself I believe that an effective MS monopoly for PC architecture cannot be equitable and I remain uneasy about how this effective monopoly has been attained. You might be correct in citing envy of success as a common motive but I would add to that a suspicion of success.

Andrew J. Allcock

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2494#Comment_2494

Can you give more than anecdotal evidence? The trouble is, most of the surveys out there put the Linux userbase in general at 1% worldwide. It might even be less if only Christian users is taken into account. It might be higher or lower in the UK. Then whatever this Christian user base is, a smaller percentage would ever consider buying Logos Bible software.

The one statistic I did notice was the number of views this thread is getting...[:)]

Floyd Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2630#Comment_2630

The one statistic I did notice was the number of views this thread is getting...

I have an academic interest in Linux, but no desire to use LOGOS on the platform. I have the latest version of Ubuntu - but have not yet installed it. If history is any indicator (though I realize it often is not), I probably won't. I wonder of how many like me are out here.

One more thought - the availability of LOGOS in Linux/Unix might confince me to install Linux, but doubt I would continue to use LOGOS on that platform, even after I installed it. Could be wrong, but having used Linux in the past, I expect it is true.

Blessings,

Floyd

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2630#Comment_2630

The one statistic I did notice was the number of views this thread is getting...

I submit that the thread title is provocative and suggests that the Linux version is being considered.

Plus we all wanted to know the source of your statistics [;)]

Steven Yu

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2633#Comment_2633

Plus we all wanted to know the source of your statistics

1,474 read and 46 replied, well 47 now :-)

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2649#Comment_2649

Plus we all wanted to know the source of your statistics

1,474 read and 46 replied, well 47 now :-)

I at least touch on all posts so they will not continue to show up in the unread posts list. The read stats may be skewed by such actions.

Jack

Phillip

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2503#Comment_2503

http://bible.logos.com and http://books.logos.com

I was not aware of these sites ...

Here is another new site: http://transliterate.com/

Andrew

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/2501#Comment_2501

Of course Logos can ignore Linux, the primary programmers I believe came from Microsoft, and a standard Windows user will be pretty lost if taken from their cozy Windows home. The investment to move to Linux would be huge. Unfortunately, when Logos opted to move into the Mac arena, they apparently did not chose that opportunity to use an environment that would have been compatible on multiple platforms with very little extra investment. One option is a cross-platform solution such as QT, and another is to develop against Crossover by Codeweavers. if they had, then I assume that this thread would have died.

The Codeweaverssolution, developing against crossover (http://www.codeweavers.com) would allow all those Windows programmers to mostly feel at home and develop against the Windows API, while providing a single solution that works on Windows, mac, and Linux. EA by Sparx systems does exactly this, and their products work great on multiple platforms because of it. notice that this does provide for IE, which is a libronix requirement I think.

My copies of Libronix have been sitting nicely in boxes and such for years. I am repeatedly asked "so, you ready to sell those yet?" It is probably time. I keep hoping that some year i will make this work, but I never do. I will test it against the latest version of crossover I think and either make it work, or sell it. No reason to keep things around that I do not use. Even my wife stopped using the windows computer that I built for her, opting instead to use the Linux box.

For the people here that seem to care a lot, well, you can bet money that Logos will do nothing to make the product work on Linux. This is not a condemnation of Logos or meant in any ill way. The money is not there for them. If you really want to put your money where your mouth is, go to the code weavers web site and pay them to make Libronix will work on Linux. They will then do what is required to make it work. Probably take more money than you are willing to spend to make this happen, especially since it looks like Libronix may be using a few special MS libraries for license control, but it has never been worth my time to hack their software sufficiently to figure it out. Even if Codeweavers did fix things, the next release of Libronix might break what was done to allow Libronix to function. I have been pondering how many hundreds of dollars I should add to the reward pot on codeweavers site. I suppose that if I finally dump Libronix, then I will not be putting money in the pot.

You can be sure, however, that if you are trying to hack your way through making this work, Libronix will be responsive and help you try to make it work so that you can continue to use your favorite Bible software. I wonder if I will even recognize how the latest copies of Libronix work these days.