TIP of the day: Finding relevant passages to use for the Systematic Theology section.

Page 1 of 1 (20 items)
This post has 19 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 26511
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Jan 12 2016 3:16 PM

1. Let's take a controversial topic in which people of differing traditions often speak past one another. And let's look at it from the perspective of a nine year old Tibetan Buddhist monk learning the essentials of comparing two terms.

Yes, it looks like a traditional Western Venn diagram ... except notive the box around it and the #4 label. It makes all the difference.

Some people would make the following assignments for religious practices and beliefs:

  1.  God's teachings (Tanakh/Scripture)
  2.  -
  3. Human tradition
  4. Non-Jewish traditions

which works well for the references to human traditions added to the Jewish Law as portrayed primarily in the Gospels.

Others would make the following assignments based primarily on the epistles:

  1. God's teachings (Scripture)
  2. teachings covered both in Scripture and in Apostolic Tradition
  3. Apostolic Tradition
  4. Human tradition - a mix of the good, the bad and the ugly

What is critical is to recognize what is within one's two-term discussion and what, if anything, is outside it. Traditionally one would have to give an example of each category that you claim exists. This type of clarification usually clears up disputes that are not disputes but differences in terminology - some churches opposing the use of tradition meaning human tradition and other churches promoting the use of tradition meaning Apostolic tradition. The real issues are:

  1. Do you hold a cessationist view of Apostolic tradition? (or alternatively stated all Apostolic tradition is subsumed into God's tradition (Scripture) and the 3 only portion becomes empty/null).
  2. Is this particular belief or practice based on Apostolic or human tradition?

2. So how do I research what various theologians or denominations have said about Apostolic tradition - especially considering that the Systematic Theologies Section is in the Passage Guide which is dependent upon Bible verse references? There are three ways of getting relevant scriptures:

  • a Bible search on the word "tradition"
  • Related Verses section of a Topic Guide on "tradition"
  • Catholic Topical Index Scripture subsection of the same Topic Guide.

3. Next convert each set into Passage Lists.

4. Now merge the lists together.

5. Remove non-Scriptural references and duplicates (usually individual verses that are also included in ranges.)

6. This results in a list of 16 verses relating to "tradition"

7. Add headers and sort the passages ... bearing in mind the lesson of the Buddhist two-term approach. You need to pay attention so that you don't force items outside your classification into your preconceived scheme but rather let the data define the scheme.

8. You now have a manageable list of passages to run through the Passage Guide Systematic Theologies section. An example of one reference.

Note that this method is dependent upon thinking through very clearly what the base issue truly is rather than mindlessly adopting the pop-slogan description.

See SUGGESTION: Logical next step: finding relevant passage to use for Systematic Theologies

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 3070
Milkman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 12 2016 3:51 PM

Hey MJ :)

Just a quick question for you. I've noticed over the past short while that you have some great "tips." Are these ones that you have discovered while 'playing' around with the Logos platform or an "assignment" from FL?

Don't get me wrong, these are great tips, way over my L6 head, but hopefully in time I'll be able to utilize your great ideas.

Just a thought and thanks for sharing with us who are still learning all that Logos has to offer.

mm.

mm.

Posts 259
scooter | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 12 2016 4:21 PM

Hi, MJ:  Could you, at the top of a tip say this is in Logos Now or other subset so I know whether my rig has the capabilities you will be using in your teaching??  Thankyou.

Posts 26511
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 12 2016 4:35 PM

Milkman:
Are these ones that you have discovered while 'playing' around with the Logos platform or an "assignment" from FL?

FL has never even commented on my posts ... I take that back I did hear when a correction was needed. I think what you're seeing is my gaining confidence after doing this for 6 months and my frustration at the number of "problems/suggestions" on the forums where the person posting knows all the pieces but doesn't see how to put them together.

Milkman:
way over my L6 head, but hopefully in time I'll be able to utilize your great ideas.

I hope in time you'll see they aren't way over your head but rather a series of small steps you know but hadn't thought to put together. My biggest complaint about Logos training is that when they do show you how to put it all together, it is putting it together to replicate what you can do by hand. Moving to computers should give us something new ... things we wouldn't be able to do with graduate students in a library

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 26511
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 12 2016 4:40 PM

scooter:
Could you, at the top of a tip say this is in Logos Now or other subset so I know whether my rig has the capabilities you will be using in your teaching??

I can try but so much is also dependent upon what resources one owns, that I'm not sure I'll be successful. And I confuse matters by running Verbum and Logos side by side - one usually in beta - so I often don't have it clear in my mind what a particular feature is dependent upon.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 2082
LogosEmployee

MJ. Smith:

FL has never even commented on my posts ...

Your series of tips are fantastic, and are a great benefit to people. I'm very thankful that you take the time to do them. I'm sure you've learned a lot too from what you are doing, and that's great too!

Posts 2054
GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 13 2016 3:11 AM

Some are over my head.  Some are a good stretch.  I am picking up some good practices.

Thanks.  

Posts 259
scooter | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 13 2016 5:21 AM

I appreciate, MJ, that you are putting your shoulder to the door and opening up new vistas for the rest of us. Time doing this takes away from your own personal studies, but by doing this you are a multiplier in the lives of others and on through to the lives those affected by the greater learning and wisdom achieved via your help on the forums.

John Fidel has great material to start people rolling.  His practises are my next step.  You provide some basics as well as advanced manoeuvres.

I believe FL people read your solutions  to the benefit of all.

Thanks.

Posts 787
Jack Hairston | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 13 2016 10:05 AM

Hi, MJ:

I too, appreciate your insights into the workings of Logos software. At the very least, you reassure all of us who lurk.

On the topic of "outsider view," I find that the best way for me to discover my own blind spots is to study with someone from a different spiritual "tribe," who won't let me get away with unreasonable assumptions, or lazy reasoning on my part. I cannot discover these on my own. That's why they are called "blind spots."

Thanks for taking the time to share with the rest of the community.

Posts 9
Don Wallace | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 14 2016 12:22 PM

wow thanks for taking time to share that there are so many studies I want to do now, with it.

I couldn't find the catholic topical index scripture in my library but maybe I don't have it. Iam not sure if there is anything else I can merge with passage list and topic list, but iam sure I will figure it out as I use it. Thanks again for the tip Big Smile

Posts 26511
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 14 2016 12:29 PM

Don Wallace:
I couldn't find the catholic topical index scripture in my library

It's a Verbum feature. As I flip-flop between a stable Verbum and a beta Logos, I tend to forget to make the distinction.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1394
James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 14 2016 1:12 PM

Excellent once again!

MJ. Smith:

Some people would make the following assignments for religious practices and beliefs:

  1.  God's teachings (Tanakh/Scripture)
  2.  -
  3. Human tradition
  4. Non-Jewish traditions

Is there an error at #2?

Logos 8  | Dell Inspiron 7373 | Windows 10 Pro 64, i7, 16GB, SSD | iPhone X | iMac 27" i7, 16GB, SSD | OS 10.13

Posts 26511
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 14 2016 1:37 PM

James Taylor:
Is there an error at #2?

It was intentional in that the use in the Gospels seems to be that the are diametrically opposed and have no overlap. I don't believe that to be an accurate description of Palestinian Judaism of the time ... but at least leaving it blank implies that I cannot think of an example that fills that slot although logically it exists.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 9
Don Wallace | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 15 2016 7:43 PM

Thankyou for the reply, I always thought verbum and logos were the same program. When verbum came out I purchased a library of texts and just thought they went into my logos. So now I have downloaded verbum it is 30 some gigs and indexting now but I don't notice any difference from the logos program. You seem to use both programs, what is the difference in them? I cant seem to find catholic topical index scripture in it either. I know iam off topic but any help you can give me would be great. I have been in this cloud trying to figure the difference with the two for years. thanks again for your time.

Posts 26511
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 15 2016 8:16 PM

The programs are the same - one can make Logos act like Verbum. However, the Verbum side does not have the Bookstore or the 4 external sermon sites available. And you have to own a Verbum package to have features such as the Catholic Topical Index. It's been a while since I've carefully examined the differences.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 9
Don Wallace | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 16 2016 8:43 PM

Thanks again for your reply, I looked it up and it says I have verbum 5 with 12165 resources, would that include the catholic topic?

Posts 26511
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jan 16 2016 9:34 PM

Probably. Run a standard Passage Guide on a common passage such as John 1:1-5. Does a Catholic Topical Index section show?

or

in the library find/filter box enter title:"Catholic Topical Index"? Do you get a hit?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 9
Don Wallace | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 17 2016 6:46 PM

Thankyyou very much for all your help. I cant find the catholic topic index but I do have the three collections that are going to be great for searches. I was wondering if the catholic topic index is in 6 and I have 5. Since I have so much in logos maybe I could get the cross over would I gain any searches doing that or if I got the 8.99 a month or should I be happy with what I have. Thanks for any help you can give me and I owe you big for setting me up in verbum.

Posts 26511
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 17 2016 7:12 PM

Call customer service and ask them the least expensive way to get access to the Catholic topical index. It was an early Verbum feature but I don't recall at what level.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 9
Don Wallace | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2016 11:44 AM

Hi, I got it and am up and running, it is so great to have it in my search. Thanks again for your blog that lead me to it and your help.

Page 1 of 1 (20 items) | RSS