Suggestion to Payment Plan

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This post has 11 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 947
Everett Headley | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Jan 18 2016 8:44 AM

If I may,

I would suggest that those items that come through CP and PP that are in public domain and do not require royalties to be paid be allowed to be added to existing payment plans without changing anything to them except their monthly payment (no down payment or new structuring).  This would allow many of us who use this program extensively to continue to do so.  I also believe that it would continue/increase sales of these items.  I have canceled over $300 in the past few months because it would affect my payment plans

Posts 2710
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2016 6:15 PM

I agree that some consideration might be made, but the intensive labor costs might be a driving concern. Just because the royalties are negated, the amount of labor involved is an ongoing cost that doesn't disappear when one project is finished. Logos is continually paying out to their employees who do this work.

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

Posts 2878
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2016 9:20 PM

Your suggestion has some merit as one of the main justifications for the policy change was paying royalties with too small a cash flow.

I understand your frustration, as I recently did not make some large purchases that I would have made under the old policies.  This will continue to be true for me.  In fact, as a result of the new policies, for the first time in over 20 years I have installed a rival product on my computer to buy a resource at a savings of hundreds of dollars.  I called Logos first and asked, "What can Logos do on this resource?"  I was told, "Nothing, it is not on sale."  

I perfectly understood Logos’ position.  They have to do what is in their best interest.  I assume they understand my position.  I have to do what is in my best interest.  I would have preferred to buy the product in Logos, and have it integrate into my Logos Library.  I was not asking for, nor expecting, a price match.  I would have paid some more to have the resource in Logos.  But not at a cost of hundreds of dollars more than the competitor charges.  Having done this once, I will likely do it again in the future.  So changing the policy has had a drastic impact on my Logos purchases from hence forth.

Don’t get me wrong.  When it is in my best interest to pay extra for Logos tagging, I will pay it.  If I just want to read a resource and do simple searches, I will take the best price.  Logos and I are both doing what is in our best interest.  I have a huge investment in Logos – tens of thousands of dollars over a couple of decades. 

I think we need to be patient and give Logos / Faithlife plenty of time to determine if the new polices are increasing profits or reducing profits.   As a sound business, Faithlife will do what is in their financial best interest, balanced with their customers’ best interest.  Logos is an honorable company, owned and managed by good Christian people.  Logos management is very intelligent.  I will continue to be a customer, buying from them when it is in my best interest.

*****

By the way, when I wrote the above, I had not read of the recent changes in Logos` Payment Plan policies.  I read these changes just after posting the above.  I just returned yesterday from a mission trip to Africa and am out of touch.  I think Logos is already adjusting what is in their best interest, balanced by their customers' best interest.  Just as I expected.

Of course, I was also combining two different factors regarding purchase decisions in the above post.  One is price verses the need for Logos tagging.  The other  is the credit / down payment issue.  Even with the revised credit / down payment policies, I would have made same decision on the resource I purchased from a competitor.  The difference in price was just too much.  So it was not really the new down payment policy that forced that decision.  It was strictly price.

On the other hand, I would have added an upgrade on my package before Christmas when they were 15 per cent discounted, but just as I decided to make the purchase, the new down payment policy was instituted.  So I did not.  That is how the new down payment policy affected my purchases.  Instead I decided to buy one particular resource, and the difference in price for that resource is what sent me to a Logos competitor.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 13417
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2016 3:04 AM

Everett Headley:
I would suggest that those items that come through CP and PP that are in public domain and do not require royalties to be paid be allowed to be added to existing payment plans without changing anything to them except their monthly payment (no down payment or new structuring).

Generally, public domain texts need greater capital upfront than those that need royalties. That's because the public domain texts generally have to have an electronic edition created from scratch (as opposed to being supplied by the publisher).

More importantly (for this discussion), 100% of the costs of Public Domain works have to be paid by Logos before any income is received. But if a royalty is payable, then only 80-95% of the costs have to be paid by Logos before any income is received. In other words, the fact that something is in the Public Domain means Faithlife need the money even sooner than if its licenced from a publisher.

Posts 8031
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2016 4:03 AM

Why would you want to keep going in to debt more? 🤔 Maybe it's time to create LA "Logosholics Anonimous" 😒 Seems like everybody just wants to have some kind of easier way to spend more money that they don't have...On Logos books...some that have not even been created yet 😱 When is it enough? I'm actually thankful for the "drastic change" on the payment plan policy. That means that once I'm done paying for what I owe, I'll only buy what I need and upgrade when I can afford it without having to beg Logos to let me owe them more money! Plus, I'll have more money to save and spend on other things that are enjoyable too (e.g. Trips to visit other countries and mini road trips that Logos books cannot provide, especially when I owe a book). 

I'm sure Logos will continue to tweak the payment plan policy and I hope is for the best for both Logos and the customers, some, who unfortunately, are indeed adicted to overspending on Logos books and software --- and no, I'm not referring to the OP -- it's just a general statement and as the saying goes, "If the shoe fits, wear it." I'm sure some acknowledge they have a problem just like there are some who won't acknowledge they have one.

Blessings!

DAL

Posts 235
C M | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2016 6:36 AM

Mark Barnes:

Generally, public domain texts need greater capital upfront than those that need royalties. That's because the public domain texts generally have to have an electronic edition created from scratch (as opposed to being supplied by the publisher).

More importantly (for this discussion), 100% of the costs of Public Domain works have to be paid by Logos before any income is received. But if a royalty is payable, then only 80-95% of the costs have to be paid by Logos before any income is received. In other words, the fact that something is in the Public Domain means Faithlife need the money even sooner than if its licenced from a publisher. 

Could I take this to believe that Logos competitors are better financed or have more customers than faithlife if they can produce a book (public Domain or royalties) cheaper?

Posts 13417
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2016 7:27 AM

Charles McNeil:
Could I take this to believe that Logos competitors are better financed or have more customers than faithlife if they can produce a book (public Domain or royalties) cheaper?

Not a chance. Faithlife is the biggest by a country mile, if you measure by sales, turnover, staff size, number of resources, etc.

More importantly, when it comes to public domain books, Logos' is about as cheap as you can get — if you buy during Community Pricing, which is what this thread is about. I agree that if you look at the sticker price, Logos is much more expensive, but very few customers pay that price. The vast majority pick up PD works in base packages (effective 90% discount) or Community Pricing (usually 75-95% discount).

Posts 947
Everett Headley | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2016 7:31 AM

DAL:

Why would you want to keep going in to debt more? 🤔 Maybe it's time to create LA "Logosholics Anonimous" 😒 Seems like everybody just wants to have some kind of easier way to spend more money that they don't have...On Logos books...some that have not even been created yet 😱 When is it enough? I'm actually thankful for the "drastic change" on the payment plan policy. That means that once I'm done paying for what I owe, I'll only buy what I need and upgrade when I can afford it without having to beg Logos to let me owe them more money! Plus, I'll have more money to save and spend on other things that are enjoyable too (e.g. Trips to visit other countries and mini road trips that Logos books cannot provide, especially when I owe a book). 

I'm sure Logos will continue to tweak the payment plan policy and I hope is for the best for both Logos and the customers, some, who unfortunately, are indeed adicted to overspending on Logos books and software --- and no, I'm not referring to the OP -- it's just a general statement and as the saying goes, "If the shoe fits, wear it." I'm sure some acknowledge they have a problem just like there are some who won't acknowledge they have one.

Blessings!

DAL

DAL,

This is not helpful to the current conversation.  The topic was how to help those of us who wish to utilize this tool offered by Logos.  A lecture on debt and addiction is not necessary.   So that you are aware of my specific situation, I have a budget that is allotted monthly.  A payment plan allows me to make an upfront purchase for the year of what I know I will need, but allows me to honor my budget at the same time.  I am not addicted.  Nor am I in debt.  

Posts 8031
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2016 8:33 AM

3 John 2,

DAL

Posts 8031
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2016 3:20 PM

:)

3 John 2,

DAL

Posts 947
Everett Headley | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2016 4:01 PM

DAL,

My response was not an invitation to continue in your thread.  If I need to state it now, this is directed at Logos and I request a response from them.  I do not wish to engage you.  Please allow Logos to do so.  Thanks.

Posts 8031
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2016 4:18 PM

Everett Headley:

DAL,

My response was not an invitation to continue in your thread.  If I need to state it now, this is directed at Logos and I request a response from them.  I do not wish to engage you.  Please allow Logos to do so.  Thanks.

Fair enough :)

blessings!

DAL

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