Need search method to learn how a Greek word is translated into English

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Jack Hairston | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Jan 18 2016 11:36 AM

Ready for a can of worms?

I have long been aware of disagreements over the proper meaning of εις [eis] in Acts 2:38, and I'd like to use Logos as an electronic club to beat the question to death.

As an old data guy, using the SQL data language and an outer join would make this a snap:

  1. Extract a list of all verses from NA27 where the Greek word appears. (This is an easy search that yields over 1600 verses. Analyzing one at a time would take weeks.)
  2. Use the verses in that list to extract the matching verses from several English translations. (head scratcher)

Feeding a collection of the desired Bibles into the text comparison tool yields one verse at a time--slow.

I'd like to end up with a spreadsheet with these columns:

  1. Reference (Book, Chapter, Verse)
  2. Greek verse
  3. NIV
  4. ESV
  5. NRSV
  6. NET

Any help you can offer will be greatly appreciated.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2016 11:49 AM

Have you tried exporting something like this to Excel?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 2472
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2016 12:42 PM

Jack Hairston:

Ready for a can of worms?

I really appreciate what you're trying to do. Smile  Kudos for examining God's word so carefully.

M.J. has ably answered the technical issue. I'm just going to offer the cautious opinion that, in this instance, this particular methodology may not yield a strong result either way.

Posts 801
Jack Hairston | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2016 3:55 PM

Thanks, MJ for the quick response. That is a start toward what I want.

The hard part is to restrict the final list to verses that have εις in NA27. I'm hoping to get there in a couple of automated steps, without having to spend weeks of manually adding (or deleting) rows of spreadsheet data. So far, the closest I can come is:

  1. Search NA17 for εις.
  2. Export the result to Excel: Two columns (verse and text). Each row is a verse that contains εις.
  3. Using the Text Comparison Tool, make a spreadsheet of all verses for each NT book, with one column for each translation, as you showed.
  4. One verse at a time, transfer a row from the second sheet to the first.
  5. Highlight the English word that matches εις.

This will still take weeks to do the 1600-plus verses, but it might be the best solution. Once I get this project done, it probably won't change anyone's mind, but it's just one of those things I have to find out what's in the Bible.

If anybody thinks of a faster, less labor-intensive method, I'd love to hear from you.

Posts 590
Bill Shewmaker | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2016 4:06 PM

Jack Hairston:
If anybody thinks of a faster, less labor-intensive method, I'd love to hear from you.

Jack, have you considered running your search using the "Analysis" configuration? I tried to use the L-N numbers as my base and then added the "sense" component...not sure if that would be of a help or a hindrance, but it definitely rearranged things. Smile

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2016 4:11 PM

Try

  1. Search NA17 for εις. using Bible Search in verse view
  2. Add all of the versions which you wish to use
  3. Export to Excel - 7 columns: reference, NA27, NIV, NRSV ...

No need to use the Text comparison Tool; the Search has that capability. I don't know of a way to use a visual filter that will export from a Search but the Search panel does have them highlighted in all versions so it is a matter of manual applying a highlight in Excel to the word highlighted in the Search

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 801
Jack Hairston | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2016 5:33 PM

Bill Shewmaker:

Jack Hairston:
If anybody thinks of a faster, less labor-intensive method, I'd love to hear from you.

Jack, have you considered running your search using the "Analysis" configuration? I tried to use the L-N numbers as my base and then added the "sense" component...not sure if that would be of a help or a hindrance, but it definitely rearranged things. Smile

The  "aligned" option for search results did the trick. All the translations for εις are highlighted in a single column. When I export this result to Excel, All I need to do is count, and Excel can do that for me. Here are the steps:

  1. Open all Bibles that I want to include that have reverse interlinears.
  2. Go to the first verse that has εις in the NA27 text. (Note: Don't just type εις into the search box, because that would also include εἱς [heis], a different word.  --Voice of Experience)
  3. Highlight the word, then right-click on it to open up the secondary menu.
  4. In the right pane, click on the lemma.
  5. In the left pane, click search this resource
  6. In the search pane, click Bible to search Bibles only,
    The line just below that should read: "search all bible text in all passages in all open Bibles for"
    (The search box will contain the lemma to be found.)
  7. Click the arrow in the blue circle to execute the search.
  8. When the search finishes, click Aligned to show the key word in context.
  9. THEN export the whole mess to Excel by pressing {Ctrl-P} (Cmd-P Mac)
    Notice that there are several pages of search data to export.
    Each of the open Bibles will be represented.
  10. Excel will count

I knew there had to be a slick way to do this.

PS: Thanks, MJ and Bill for your input. It got the gears in my head to turning.

Posts 2851
Sascha John | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 18 2016 7:40 PM

search will give you a choose option for both

Posts 590
Bill Shewmaker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2016 7:58 AM

Jack, glad to hear that you got what you wanted. I have completed your steps as well...good study. Thank you!

Posts 801
Jack Hairston | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2016 12:38 PM

Bill Shewmaker:

not sure if that would be of a help or a hindrance.... Smile

After the data was captured and analyzed, the real answer was no clearer than before. [sigh] Here's a historical quote by John Armstrong.

The deep tragedy of this division [over the doctrine of baptism]  was perhaps never as apparent as on a cold January day in 1527 when Felix Manz, a Swiss Protestant minister who had rejected the practice of infant baptism, was put to death by drowning in the River Limmat. Manz had openly confessed his simple faith by writing, "We bring together those who are willing to accept Christ, obey the Word, and follow in his footsteps. We unite them by baptism, and leave the rest to their present conviction." Ulrich Zwingli, the Protestant Reformer, said of men like Felix Manz, "Let him who talks about going under [the water] go under." In this incredible act one evangelical Protestant killed another evangelical Protestant for the crime of seeking to obey God with a clear conscience.

Posts 590
Bill Shewmaker | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2016 1:49 PM

Lee:

Jack Hairston:

Ready for a can of worms?

I really appreciate what you're trying to do. Smile  Kudos for examining God's word so carefully.

M.J. has ably answered the technical issue. I'm just going to offer the cautious opinion that, in this instance, this particular methodology may not yield a strong result either way.

As Lee said, it may or may not answer, for once and for all, what we seek. I am of a very similar persuasion theologically as you and wish it could be determined once and for all. However, it may not  be a simple answer (obviously) . I will stand by my beliefs until I go to my reward and leave the final decision to the One who knows the heart of man. I was preaching/teaching about baptism a few years ago and a lady in the congregation said something that has "bothered" me ever since: "You've made a great case for baptism, but I'm still [not] persuaded of the method and the reason." I keep teaching and talking with her, but I don't want to antagonize or pressure her to the point of pushing her completely away.

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